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  1. #21
    AussieDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
    would be interested in hearing your opinion as an old timer.
    I commenced my 1'st web dev company in 97, which also offered SEO at the time. That btw was before Google was even heard of.

    SE's of the day were: HotBot, Altavista, Yahoo, Infoseek, Ask Jeeves, Lycos, to name a few. Back then, you could literally alter your keyword frequency, shuffle your title, description and yes keywords around... resubmit a url crawl by lunch-time, and within a few hours check out the results.

    Most popular browser back then was Netscape Navigator. Though IE and Opera were available.

    A few years later, sold up and got into casino marketing. However, continued to offer SEO services. 2007, landed the SEO consultant role at Vegas Palms (Fortune Lounge Group), which, was a fun experience. Foster a good relationship with the upper echelon of FLG, which later, after I'd completed that consultancy, presented a lot of very good opportunities as one of their affiliate partners.

    Not that you stop learning... even with 23 years SEO exp.
    But guess you could say, I've been there, seen it (including the dot com boom, and bust), and have all the t-shirts to prove it

    Anyway, if your here for genuine reason, then good on you. If not, well... Que sera sera.
    Last edited by AussieDave; 5 February 2020 at 11:39 am. Reason: typo
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  3. #22
    Juicer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    since it is AMA..
    are you author of this? hxxps://diggitymarketing.com/11-pbn-experiments/
    Same structure, terms like toxic links, same pictures of SERP that say literally nothing etc.
    Am I the author of the idea of testing PBNs or am I the author of this particular test? It's same as asking any car manufacturer are they the inventors of 'THE CAR'.

    Pretty much everyone who are into PBNs are using same terminology. Pictures are not the same, they're straight from my tracker. I'm not sure what else those pictures should say?

    I'm aware of his and other people testing, I did tests before he posted that blog post and the information on his post was flawed as it takes 10 weeks NOT less, as anything can happen within those 10 weeks.

  4. #23
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    Legend!
    1997 I was first time on internet (for sure it was not porn...). And the employee I just hired was born. The term SEO did not exist by the time (probably even the term "search engine" did not exist?).

    Respect Dave. Side note: do not give up with crypto. Just do not give up. PM me anytime.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieDave View Post
    I commenced my 1'st web dev company in 97, which also offered SEO at the time. That btw was before Google was even heard of.

    SE's of the day were: HotBot, Altavista, Yahoo, Infoseek, Ask Jeeves, Lycos, to name a few. Back then, you could literally alter your keyword frequency, shuffle your title, description and yes keywords around... resubmit a url crawl by lunch-time, and within a few hours check out the results.

    Most popular browser back then was Netscape Navigator. Though IE and Opera were available.

    A few years later, sold up and got into casino marketing. However, continued to offer SEO services. 2007, landed the SEO consultant role at Vegas Palms (Fortune Lounge Group), which, was a fun experience. Foster a good relationship with the upper echelon of FLG, which later, after I'd completed that consultancy, presented a lot of very good opportunities as one of their affiliate partners.

    Not that you stop learning... even with 23 years SEO exp.
    But guess you could say, I've been there, seen it (including the dot com boom, and bust), and have all the t-shirts to prove it

    Anyway, if your here for genuine reason, then good on you. If not, well... Que sera sera.
    That's even before the 'golden age of SEO' I can't begin to imagine for how many lifetimes people made money back in those times. Even in 2013 when GSA/xrummer stuff still worked wonders you could be making bank, I missed that train since I started in late 2013 but got just in time for PBN era, which continues to last. I can't image ever making it as an SEO if I would of started now instead of back then when things were much simpler.

    -------------

    Honestly I'm a bit surprised that the SEO discussions on this forum are not active at all, no talks about more advanced stuff, is SEO not the most important thing? or a lot of guys are using ads and other methods to drive traffic, am I missing something?
    Last edited by Juicer; 5 February 2020 at 12:29 pm.

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  8. #25
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    This is affiliate forum. When I need to discuss SEO I go to BHW for example.

    But even more importantly: The idea is to talk about synergy. There is a lot of synergy in affiliate world. We need to know who is paying and who is cheating. That makes sense. I can help others without harming myself. And posting the info can help even to me, because it should at leats in theory set a border for unethical affiliate programs.

    But why should I talk how I cheated Google? It makes no sense. It does not make double sense. 1st I help my competition. 2nd the more some trick works, the higher probability is that Google will do something against it.

    Seriously - no offense - but if you do not get this then it is hard to believe you. Many, probably most of important things, are things one does not talk about. At least not in general public.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    This is affiliate forum. When I need to discuss SEO I go to BHW for example.

    But even more importantly: The idea is to talk about synergy. There is a lot of synergy in affiliate world. We need to know who is paying and who is cheating. That makes sense. I can help others without harming myself. And posting the info can help even to me, because it should at leats in theory set a border for unethical affiliate programs.

    But why should I talk how I cheated Google? It makes no sense. It does not make double sense. 1st I help my competition. 2nd the more some trick works, the higher probability is that Google will do something against it.

    Seriously - no offense - but if you do not get this then it is hard to believe you. Many, probably most of important things, are things one does not talk about. At least not in general public.
    I'm not talking about revealing your 'secrets', just general SEO stuff, but I get where you're coming from.

  11. #27
    bpmee is offline Public Member
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    Increasing advances in Google's algorithm, footprint detection, and backlink quality assessment have changed the game entirely.

    With each advancement, there is one less "secret" or edge to exploit. The big secret is that there are no more secrets.

    I can see a high quality, well maintained, regularly updated PBN working well. But it will come at a considerable cost and require constant maintenance. You also have to guard against link rot. Good links don't always age like fine wine. Some skunk like beer if the site fails to remain popular, relevant or updated.

    I remember years ago experimenting with link buys for non-gambling sites using text-link-ads.com (MatomySEO) and backlinks.com. The sites selling links looked solid. 2-3 years later, once promising bloggers quit, got day jobs or got bored. The links no longer carried the weight they once did. Even worse, these particular link sellers went out of business. I know sports bloggers who made an easy $200-$300/month selling links on their blog, now not so much.

    If PBNs aren't your thing, it's starting to come down to quality content, outreach, low-risk link buys and networking with major sites higher up the chain.

    Have a look at the heavy hitters in the USA sports market, like OddsShark. I'm confident they bought a few links early on. Lately, though, they're a traditional corporate SEO operation: article and content marketing to big sports websites, major media mentions etc. Their odds pages are easy to link in blogs and forums, so perfect natural organic link bait.

    Finally, on-page SEO is more important than ever. If your site isn't responsive and doesn't load fast on mobile, kiss your rankings goodbye. It's not 2010 anymore. Most searches are taking place on mobile devices. This is obvious, but you'd be surprised to see many older gambling portals still trying to hack it with out-of-date design, over-sized banners and sites that take 15 seconds to load.

    Appreciate you starting this discussion Juicer and not trying to pile on. From my perspective (16 years pro SEO), PBNs will work for a little while longer. Meantime, diversify your link acquisition and content marketing. The minute Google identifies your footprint, your traffic (or clients' traffic) evaporates almost overnight.

    IMHO, successful gambling SEO nowadays is hard work, spending money and keeping your tactics white and a "Touch of Grey" (For the dead heads)
    Last edited by bpmee; 12 February 2020 at 10:26 pm.

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  13. #28
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    ^ all 100% truestory
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  14. #29
    Juicer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    Increasing advances in Google's algorithm, footprint detection, and backlink quality assessment have changed the game entirely.

    With each advancement, there is one less "secret" or edge to exploit. The big secret is that there are no more secrets.

    I can see a high quality, well maintained, regularly updated PBN working well. But it will come at a considerable cost and require constant maintenance. You also have to guard against link rot. Good links don't always age like fine wine. Some skunk like beer if the site fails to remain popular, relevant or updated.

    I remember years ago experimenting with link buys for non-gambling sites using text-link-ads.com (MatomySEO) and backlinks.com. The sites selling links looked solid. 2-3 years later, once promising bloggers quit, got day jobs or got bored. The links no longer carried the weight they once did. Even worse, these particular link sellers went out of business. I know sports bloggers who made an easy $200-$300/month selling links on their blog, now not so much.

    If PBNs aren't your thing, it's starting to come down to quality content, outreach, low-risk link buys and networking with major sites higher up the chain.

    Have a look at the heavy hitters in the USA sports market, like OddsShark. I'm confident they bought a few links early on. Lately, though, they're a traditional corporate SEO operation: article and content marketing to big sports websites, major media mentions etc. Their odds pages are easy to link in blogs and forums, so perfect natural organic link bait.

    Finally, on-page SEO is more important than ever. If your site isn't responsive and doesn't load fast on mobile, kiss your rankings goodbye. It's not 2010 anymore. Most searches are taking place on mobile devices. This is obvious, but you'd be surprised to see many older gambling portals still trying to hack it with out-of-date design, over-sized banners and sites that take 15 seconds to load.

    Appreciate you starting this discussion Juicer and not trying to pile on. From my perspective (16 years pro SEO), PBNs will work for a little while longer. Meantime, diversify your link acquisition and content marketing. The minute Google identifies your footprint, your traffic (or clients' traffic) evaporates almost overnight.

    IMHO, successful gambling SEO nowadays is hard work, spending money and keeping your tactics white and a "Touch of Grey" (For the dead heads)
    Good post, what mostly surprises me is not the old outdated casino aff sites that load 15 secs, but actual casino sites that have affiliate programs, some of them are even quite popular here, sponsors etc, their sites takes a long time to load, 0 optimization for conversions and people wonder why their traffic doesn't convert.

  15. #30
    nfint12 is offline Public Member
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    I had written off pbns, but within the last 2 weeks noticed a UK/EU casino site using them with excellent results. They aren't the highest quality either, using font colour that matches the background etc, I'd be surprised if they don't get a slap, but so far so good.

  16. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nfint12 View Post
    I had written off pbns, but within the last 2 weeks noticed a UK/EU casino site using them with excellent results. They aren't the highest quality either, using font colour that matches the background etc, I'd be surprised if they don't get a slap, but so far so good.
    May I ask what was your reason for writing them off?

  17. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juicer View Post
    Good post, what mostly surprises me is not the old outdated casino aff sites that load 15 secs, but actual casino sites that have affiliate programs, some of them are even quite popular here, sponsors etc, their sites takes a long time to load, 0 optimization for conversions and people wonder why their traffic doesn't convert.
    Good point regarding conversions. That's something affiliates should be very vocal about. If they're sending traffic and not getting expected registrations and reg/depositor conversion, speak up. It may not be your fault provided your traffic is good quality.

    Regarding operator on-page optimization, they're playing by slightly different rules. They can get away with it because the publicity, inbound links and exposure via affiliate sites automatically confer authority to their domains.

    Not to mention various unlinked brand mentions found on affiliate, directory and industry watchdog sites, which Google considers "implied links". In other words, you don't necessarily need a hard "do follow" to get a bump from Google. An appropriate amount of text mentioning your brand or domain is good-enough, particularly in the gambling vertical.

    Overall, authority sites get some leniency because of all this and because they're popular. Run a Google Page Speed test for ESPN.com, a major sports TV Network in the USA. The pages don't do well. But imagine the confusion and outrage (and lost revenue) if Google demoted ESPN for loading slow?

    In their cost/benefit analysis, better to let big, slow sites stay. "Too big to de-list" Meanwhile, smaller sites have to earn their rankings with good SEO fundamentals.

    Nowadays it's very easy to launch a WordPress gambling portal complete with basic content, good design and helpful widgets. Google knows this and deals with thousands of machine-generated sites each day. As a result, you're going to have to jump through hoops to get listed and wait until hard-earned links get credited to your domain.

    We're not reviewing flower pots, Caribbean vacation spots or collectible antiques.

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  19. #33
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    SEO is most important element for the affiliate business. Im thinking everyday bases, how to improve it better.

  20. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    Have a look at the heavy hitters in the USA sports market, like OddsShark. I'm confident they bought a few links early on. Lately, though, they're a traditional corporate SEO operation: article and content marketing to big sports websites, major media mentions etc. Their odds pages are easy to link in blogs and forums, so perfect natural organic link bait.

    I've met these guys. Partied with them even. They are fun to say the least.

    Now, with regard to your interpretation of their strategy, I think you are very accurate, they have links coming in from massively authoritative sources. They also cultivate this behavior in very ingenious ways which out of respect I will not disclose. I'm pretty sure they buy links too though, I could swear I've seen what I thought were pretty obviously purchased links.

    In any case, OddsShark are masters of their craft.

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  22. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROFRBcom View Post
    I've met these guys. Partied with them even. They are fun to say the least.

    Now, with regard to your interpretation of their strategy, I think you are very accurate, they have links coming in from massively authoritative sources. They also cultivate this behavior in very ingenious ways which out of respect I will not disclose. I'm pretty sure they buy links too though, I could swear I've seen what I thought were pretty obviously purchased links.

    In any case, OddsShark are masters of their craft.
    Yeah, definitely think they bought some early on. Probably less recently; they don't have to and it would be too risky.

    The authority links are indeed impressive. And there are various ways to get them, both online, offline and in between.

    They have the data (odds, stats and presentation) to offer sports writers and media. The next part is conjecture:

    They offer their content to authority sites, in exchange for their name in the byline. Most people ignore free content requests because the quality is low and the site is useless. Not so with OS. And once the OS author gets on the authority site, of course they'll link back to OS's odds pages!

    Another possibility: they can also just build relationships with writers the old fashioned way. A few beers and a handshake, maybe some swag, and "Hope our site can help you this NFL season".

    Guess what, it works. In the USA, doctors offices are frequented by pharmaceutical sales reps. They come in with samples and the usual scientific studies. But do you know what seals the deal? Buying lunch for a hungry office. $50 worth of pizza is easily recouped when that doctor writes prescriptions for $1,000s worth of meds.

    Only wish I had the resources and reach of OS, AskGamblers or any other larger operation. I tip my cap to what they've accomplished.
    Last edited by bpmee; 16 February 2020 at 1:02 pm.

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