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  1. #1
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    Default Bitcoin Fees of 11 Euros?

    I was about to transfer some BTC around to tidy up wallets - and notice that my Electrum wallet suggested a fee of 0.0046 ?!
    Transaction size was 1078 bytes.

    That's about 11.50 euros - or $13 USD !!
    WTF?

    Consider that SEPA charges 9 euro cents ( 0.09 ) to complete a bank transfer ...
    I'm not sure that BTC survives for very long with miner fees that are 100x a bank transfer charge!

    What are people paying at the moment ?
    Is this a wallet bug? Or has it become the norm?

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  3. #2
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    UPDATE : Apparently not a bug.

    This website (see http://bitcoinfees.21.co/) shows fees per byte in "satoshis" at 400-500
    And the transaction had 1078 bytes as I was flushing all coins out of a wallet.

    so 450 x 1078 = 485,000

    And this website (see https://99bitcoins.com/satoshi-usd-converter/ ) confirms that 485,000 is about USD$13.82 ..

    Again ... WTF?
    No wonder miners don't want anything to change ... they must love this fee structure.

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  5. #3
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    I am not big expert but try this:

    1.) Preference > Uncheck "Use Dynamic Fees" box.

    2.) Fee Regulator: Completely left position:


    In this case transaction speed will be slow, but total fee will be low.


    For example, rigth now:

    Transaction: $2000 (Minimal Speed)
    Fee = Mining Fee: $0.95 +Additional Fee: $1.38 = $2.33

    Transaction: $2000 (Maximum Speed)
    Fee = Mining Fee: $22.51 +Additional Fee: $1.38 = $23.89

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  7. #4
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    Yes. For tidying up the wallets even fee around 100 sat/B is sufficient, because there was a recent update of BTC protocol, that let the low fees transactions expire after a much more time (something like 2 weeks instead of 3 days).

    Otherwise around 300 sat/B works quite fast.

    You can also use tx accelerator https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/
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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    a much more time (something like 2 weeks instead of 3 days).
    Yes, but one little remark for those, who don't use bitcoins yet, but read this thread.

    3 days or 14 days in bitcoin transactions, this is not equal banking days.


    For bank wire transfer - 1 day = working day, from MO to FR, usualy until 18:00 or 14:00 local time.




    For example, if i sent bank wire transfer at Friday evening, 3 days = next Wednesday.
    Weekends, holidays e.t.c - in bank wire transfers these days don't count.




    Bitcoin system is different . it work real 24/7. So, sometimes the bitcoin transaction with absolutely minimum comsission may be faster than classic wire transfer.




    Anyway in bitcoin we may choose comission size/transaction speed as we want.

  10. #6
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    True indeed ,

    I would understand the min fee per transaction however I can;t understand is that there is no max amount .

    The higher amount in BTC you send the more you pay ,it doesnt make any sense.
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  11. #7
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    No, the fees are "flat" (they are not completely flat, but they are higher with amounts of inputs) = they do not depend on the amount. They depend on the amount of space in Bytes the transaction demands from blockchain.

    There is no min and max. Min is always 0, but most probably it will not go through, because the network capacity is ~ 3tx/sec and there is kind of bidding and the 0 fee is now almost always outbid by the others.

    There is also no max. It is up to you how much you wanna pay. This thread is about it.

    There is no central authority in bitcoin, therefore there is nobody except pure market, who can set min or max fee. There are only the processors = the miners, who can discard transactions under certain fee. But if one decides for that, the other may still accept it.

    You understand it wrong.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  13. #8
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    Thats truee ,

    I do have some questions though and wish there is someone who can clarify .

    Whats stops the network on increasing the satoshi fee even more ,whats stops them on manipulating the price to gather profit knowing that almost 80 % of BTC are being held by 1% of the people .
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  14. #9
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    The only things that limit it is competition and the fear that users will move elsewhere. Also miners process the transactions as byproduct of mining, so they will do the transactions anyways.

    Who are BTC holders is not important. Miners are (although miners are big owners of BTC). Bitcoin is POW coin, not POS. POW =miners decide. POS = owners decide.
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  15. #10
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  16. #11
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    In fact it is all even more complex, because the miners can, should be and currently are pressed hard. The UASF movement and Aug 1st might change thinngs. Even threat of UASF will probably bring change of Bitcoin protocol as "Barry Silbert consensus". The key feature that is needed, is called Segwit.

    After the Segwit activation there will be much more open path for "offchain scalability". It means that it will be possible to transfer Bitcoins via alternative and cheaper methods and the limit 3tx/sec will fall. Because part of transactions will be done offchain, then even fees for onchain transactions will fall. I believe (=this is not a fact), that currently bitcoin network is being heavily spammed by miners to artificially make fees higher. This spamming will stop and it will also make fees lower. (It happened maybe just now, the fees dropped during last days, so even ~ 200 sat/B brings fast confirmations and even < 50 sat/B transactions go through).

    Also even without Segwit not activated atm, there will be alternative ways developed, because the fees are already high enough to incentivize some alternative methods of bitcoin transfers.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  18. #12
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    Just for those who maybe do not know: there are coins that do not use POW:

    From the top coins:
    Stratis is pure POS coin. There is no mining. There is just "staking", so any owner of Strat is able to generate rewards for himself by confirming the transactions.
    DASH is comining POS and POW, so the reward (and decisions) goes to miners and stakers.
    ETH should "soon" change from POW to POS.

    There is not out of question that even BTC (or some BTC fork) might change to POS in future.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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