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Thread: Blackmail.

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    Default Blackmail.

    http://www.gofuckbiz.com/showthread.php?t=46740&page=4

    http://ttrblog.com/shantazh-ot-poshf...hernyj-spisok/

    Posh Friends, how you may comment this? You do not pay your affiliate, becouse you don't like review on affiliate site.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 10 August 2016 at 11:13 am.

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    Dear Moonlight Cat,


    We asked Affiliate to change false information in the review. It's key financial infro which is extremely important for players. According our T&C we can hold payment till the Affiliate changes information in the review. We kindly asked several times to do that. Money remains on the Affiliate balance for unlimited time period. We will be ready to renew our cooperation any time and pay out commissions.
    For detailed information please, follow this thread http://www.gofuckbiz.com/showthread.php?t=42724&page=17

    To GPWA attention: affiliate is not banned and can get his money any time after changing incorrect information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    We asked Affiliate to change false information in the review.
    Katja, affiliate think that this information is important. This is affiliate point of view, that you have some negative moments
    on your withdraw process.

    You want to setup censorship, and you want to order what affiliate must write on his own review? This is wrong way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    To GPWA attention: affiliate is not banned and can get his money any time after changing incorrect information.

    Katja, here, in international affiliate world, we don't support censorship. And we don't like pressure. I hope you will change your point of view. Sorry for my English.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 10 August 2016 at 11:14 am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Katja, affiliate think that this information is important. This is affiliate point of view, that you have some negative moments
    on your withdraw process.

    You want to setup censorship, and you want to order what affiliate must write on his own review? This is wrong way.

    We respect affiliate’s right to the personal point of view. For example, feedback «I don’t like your design because it’s too childish and not intuitive, that’s why you get the last position in my list» is totally ok, we can understand that. «I’m not going to work with you until you guys get Maltese license» is also an example of constructive criticism. We appreciate that and are not going to disturb this very partner until we have a new license. But to write «they have 10 000 USD withdrawal limit» while we have 100 000 one is not a point of view, but defamation, isn’t it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Katja, here, in international affiliate world, we don't support censorship.
    You are my man!



    Leopold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Katja, here, in international affiliate world, we don't support censorship. And we don't like pressure. I hope you will change your point of view. Sorry for my English.
    Dear Moonlight Cat,

    We do not support censorship too. Here is example of constructive criticism http://prntscr.com/c3ywwv They provide valid and well-reasoned feedback about our work.
    We only ask to provide correct information for players. Do we have a right to do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    We only ask to provide correct information for players. Do we have a right to do that?
    Katja. Yes, you have right to ask. But you have no right to hold they comission. This is big difference.

    You cross the border between buisness relationship and blackmail. You desicion is non-strategic. Some people don't like pressure. And this is not the first time, when you try to give order to affiliates, what they must do, and what they don't must do.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 10 August 2016 at 11:13 am.

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    Moonlight Cat is a very attentive reader who analyses things with high intelligence.
    The ability of farsighted thinking by my highly respected forum colleague is undisputable.

    Moonlight Cat just tends to have a good nose for hidden or outrageous events, a keen eye for detail.

    His assessment of the situation - also this situation here when censorship and blackmail ( = a penal offense under international law) occurred - carries considerable weight and is important.

    Leopold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Katja. Yes, you have right to ask. But you have no right to hold they comission. This is big difference.

    You cross the border between buisness relationship and blackmail. You desicion is non-strategic. Some people don't like pressure. And this is not the first time, when you try to give order to affiliates, what they must do, and what they don't must do.

    Dear Moonlight Cat,

    You know how we appreciate your feedback and experience within the affiliate industry. At the same time I see that you have a single-side story and we need to give more details about this incident.
    You say you don’t support censorship. May you please you comment this? http://www.casinozru.com/content/vsj...l#.V6s6QPmLTb0

    To those, who don’t speak Russian, I can explain situation.
    Affiliate we’re talking about (let’s call him Affiliate A) is also an owner of newly launched casino. The link is above is a post by another affiliate, who is highly respected GPWA member and our old partner. Let’s call him Affiliate B.
    So, Affiliate B wanted to join Affiliate A’s partner program, but was rejected just because Affiliate A didn’t like his review (it was objective, with only valid and correct information) and wanted to get only highest position in the TOP (there are several proofs). Moreover, Affiliate A is also a moderator on the big gambling forum and he banned several users there that provided valid and constructive criticism. He even published personal and highly sensitive info about Affiliate B. Finally, he asked us to stop cooperation with Affiliate B. And here I must ask: does he have a right to do that? Are all the partners are not equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    Moonlight Cat is a very attentive reader who analyses things with high intelligence.
    The ability of farsighted thinking by my highly respected forum colleague is undisputable.

    Moonlight Cat just tends to have a good nose for hidden or outrageous events, a keen eye for detail.

    His assessment of the situation - also this situation here when censorship and blackmail ( = a penal offense under international law) occurred - carries considerable weight and is important.

    Leopold

    Yes, we know, and we respect Moonlight Cat’s accurate and attentive approach. That’s why I want to tell him another side of this story

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    And here I must ask: does he have a right to do that? Are all the partners are not equal?
    Katja.

    In your example Affiliate A and B, don't have financial relationship. This is the key factor. Financial. In your cases nobody have debt between each other. No finncial relationships. Mr."A" don't hold Mr."B" affiliate comission.

    Yes Mr."A" and Mr. "B" completely misunderstood each other. But they don't have any relationship as partners. They don't have any financial problem.

    Your case is completely diffirent. You hold affiliate comission. You have a debt to the affiliate. And you use "affiliate comission" as instrument for blackmail. This is completely diffirent situation.

    And have look at Russian forums. Do you see, how many negative comments from Russian speaking affiliates you get today? And belive me, here, on English speaking forum, you will get the same.

    One more time dear Katja, your affiliate program do big mistake.

    And one more time. This is not thread about money. This is thread about Respect. You don't respect you affiliates, if you use methods like this. Belive me, affiliates don't like this methods. You may lost your reputation very quick. Any way, i hope you change your mind.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 10 August 2016 at 11:14 am.

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    Katja., do you understand the diffirence between

    1.) Request: Dear affiliate, please change your review if this is Ok for you.

    2.) Order: Affiliate, you must change you review otherwise we don't pay you comission.

    If your affiliate managers choose Way#1, nobody have problem. But you choose Way#2. Affiliate feel this like blackmail and insult, pressure, non-respect e.t.c.

    He wrote on Russian forum, that he will lost on distance maybe ~ $100.000, but he ready to do this on principle. He ready to lost money, he ready to present you all players, but he don't ready to be under pressure.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 10 August 2016 at 11:09 am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Katja.

    In your example Affiliate A and B, don't have financial relationship. This is the key factor. Financial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    This is not thread about money. This is thread about Respect. You don't respect you affiliates, if you use methods like this. Belive me, affiliates don't like this methods. You may lost your reputation very quick. Any way, i hope you change your mind.
    Are we talking about money or respect?

    Let me remind you once again that affiliate's account is not banned. He can get his comissions as soon as he changes info.

    We're not demanding top positions or positive feedback. We have never done it before and we're not going to do that in future. But our right to demand correct information is fixed in out T&C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    Are we talking about money or respect?
    Let me remind you once again that affiliate's account is not banned. He can get his comissions as soon as he changes info.
    Wrong. If you respect affiliate, you must pay comission first without any requrements. This is not your money.

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    Or you must confirm, that you may hold affiliate payments, if affiliate wrote something that you don't like. But i don't think that people here, on USA forum, support this.

    One more time, you do not have any right to control what affiliates write on they own sites. Here, at GPWA forum i wrote many negative about GPWA politics. But they don't banned me. Because this is freedom of speech. And this is American forum.

    If you want to be successful on western affiliate world, you must understand that here another standards about freedom of speech and information, that we have in our countries Russian and/or Ukraine.

    Most people and affiliates here hate censorship. And nobody have right to give order, what another person must change in they reviews. Dosn't matter what text we mean. Full text, part of the text, one sentence, one word, one letter, or one comma. And does't matter what is this - affiliate site, post on FB or article in NY Times. The rules equal: No censorship. No pressure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Wrong. If you respect affiliate, you must pay comission first without any requrements. This is not your money.
    Right!
    You are already right! Any requrements are cleanly bullshit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Wrong. If you respect affiliate, you must pay comission first without any requrements. This is not your money.
    Yes - Affiliate's. And they're absolutely safe on his balance. About Affiliate's money we're going to talk to him directly.


    Please, comment these 2 cases.
    1. Dear Affiliate Program, I don’t like Affiliate B, please, choose either me or him.


    2a. Dear Affiliate, please, change the incorrect information on your website.
    2b. Dear Affiliate, we kindly remind you that it’s extremely important to change information.
    2c. Dear Affiliate, we hold your payments, but are ready to pay the same moment you change information.


    Which of them looks more like blackmail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    One more time, you do not have any right to control what affiliates write on they own sites. Here, at GPWA forum i wrote many negative about GPWA politics. But they don't banned me. Because this is freedom of speech. And this is American forum.

    If you want to be successful on western affiliate world, you must understand that here another standards about freedom of speech and information, that we have in our countries Russian and/or Ukraine.

    Most people and affiliates here hate censorship. And nobody have right to give order, what another person must change in they reviews. Dosn't matter what text we mean. Full text, part of the text, one sentence, one word, one letter, or one comma. And does't matter what is this - affiliate site, post on FB or article in NY Times.

    Please, let’s agree on terms.

    Censorship is the suppression of free speech. Please, consider Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

    And also please, look at the beginning of our conversation.
    We support freedom of speech. It’s our core value too – we never ban for constructive criticism.

    When Affiliate wrote blog posts that he doesn’t like our new design or bonus policy we didn’t asked him to delete or change this info. Never ever.
    When he leaves false information about out limits, it’s not a point of view, but defamation. Makes sense?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends
    to write «they have 10 000 USD withdrawal limit» while we have 100 000

    This was the point I started investigation.
    You must know, that I am also player acitivist.

    If you really have 100,000 withdrawal limit, then in good casinos it's standing in the terms.
    I checked your terms.
    Nothing there.
    No withdrawal limit.

    So if the 100,000 are real, if your statement is the truth, then I will find this information and only this information on the net on the websites of your partners. Right?! Because every website, that will publish any other information will not get any commission. This is your policy, officially written in this thread.

    Check:

    "The withdrawal limit is based on your deposits. I won roughly 1500€ and had very low withdrawal limits. A daily limit of 230€ and a weekly limit of 450€ and a monthly limit of 1300€."

    "cashback and withdrawal 3 days per week only. Very smart method."

    Source: http://www.askgamblers.com/casino/casino-x-review-r4450

    ---

    "
    Withdrawal Limits: $/€3000 per day"

    Source: http://www.thebigfreechiplist.com/cr/Casino-X-Review

    ---

    "players are not allowed to cash out more than €5000 per week"

    Source: http://www.gamblingjudge.com/reviews/casino-x/

    ---

    "Withdrawal limits: No more than USD 5,000 per day, USD 10,000 per week and USD 20,000 per month"

    Source: http://www.slotozilla.com/online-cas...asino-x-review

    ---

    So Katja, this are only a fistful of examples, and they are all proven different from your statement, that the withdrawal limit is 100,000!
    Business relationship is also a matter of trust.
    So I tested your casino live chat.
    Result: The guy also told me the 100,000 story, but after I confronted him with the Askgamblers statements, the chat was paralyzed by shock first and after he found back his breath he said nothing but again his 100,000 story and annoyed me twice or triple with an aggressive bonus offer and called me "my friend". Hello?! We didn't play together in the Kindergarten.

    My opinion is, that your 100,000 story is a hoax and you are using unethically - perhaps criminal - methods to refuse payments (players and webmasters), because there is nothing in the terms, and it's a proven fact, that there are so much different statements out there, even from at least one famous GPWA member (http://www.gpwa.org/member/thebigfreechiplist).

    Leopold

    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 10 August 2016 at 1:12 pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    2c. Dear Affiliate, we hold your payments, but are ready to pay the same moment you change information.
    Which of them looks more like blackmail?
    Katja, sorry but 2c. is 200% blackmail,unethical behavior and censorship.

    Yesterday you hold payment to one Russian affiliate (who is GPWA forum member EastTeam) because he don't change aff.links on his site.
    He have no time to do this, and have are plan to do this as soon as possible, but after your blackmail he cancel partnership.

    Ok, today you hold payment to another affiliate (TTR on GPWA). The reason: wrong words in review.

    What will be tomorrow? If player write negative comments about your casino on affiliate site? What will be the next step?
    Remove comment or we will hold your affiliate payment?

    You are not the judje, and not the court. This is not your competence to make decision what text is right, and what text is wrong. What is falce, and what is not.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 10 August 2016 at 2:57 pm.

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    «they have 10 000 USD withdrawal limit
    I do not see that as defamation in any way. If it is a correct statement, I can not see how that is anything more than the truth. If it is not correct and you have a higher limit, I can see you asking it to be fixed, but witholding commissions for a typo or a mistake (which they could claim) is not right.

    To withold commissions or threaten to end a partnership for an affiliate NOT getting links changed fast enough (according to YOUR schedule) is way out of line. You can not dictate the schedule of any affiliate. (in fact in the US it used to be that an independent contractor contract had to have the provision in that the schedule could not be dictated)

    Maybe you should NOT have changed any links, as that is one of things that ALL affiliates truly hate (among payment issues such as has been raised here)

    I am not sure all of these cases are all valid, but it sure does look like a pattern developing here that would make me feel better about NOT promoting you.

    Rick
    Universal4

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