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Thread: Blackmail.

  1. #41
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    You are right, attacks can come from anywhere and there is zero proof that Posh is behind ANY of it, and posts that try to keep pointing the finger without proof are WRONG!

    In my personal opinion, I think both sides made some serious mistakes in the situation, but unfounded accusations do not help either party.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LionsTraffic View Post
    I want to add from my side that Moonlight Cat have alot of ill-wishers and even enemies at Russia.
    Actually attack can be done from so many sides...
    Sorry but you mistake. I am not the TTR. I started this thread because case like this may be problem for all affiliate world. TTR have his own nicname here, in GPWA -"TTR". But i am 'Moonlight Cat' i don't have enemy and i don't work on Russian & CIS countries market. I am independence affiliate, with my own projects. I confirm that i don't have any buisness or financial relationships with TTR.

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  5. #43
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    And i 100% agree with Universal4. Affiliate comission hold, this is fact. And this thread about this. But ddossattack, i also don't see any proofs. My point of view, both sides must try to find win/win agreement. But if you want this. If you only want to destroy your opponent, this is outside GPWA please.

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  7. #44
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    But one more time. My personal point of view. PoshFriends must pay comission to affiliate.

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    But one more time. [...] PoshFriends must pay comission to affiliate.
    Exactly, because ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    I called a friend of me who is lawyer for employment and contract law here in Germany.

    The result: You have to pay the webmaster at least the complete earnings without any conditions and / or requirements that he generated until 31. July 2016, because under also international usual practices you must give every business partner in the role as an affiliate at least 14 days time to make any changes if you have no specific term. No other specific time period (e.g. one week) is written in your terms. In this case a usual practices of at least 14 days is valid, and it doesn't matter if the affiliate stays or stayed in contact with you before the end of the time period of 14 days.

    Under the view of law it is not of interest when a change of information regarding your program will be announced. It's only important when the changes on your program were actually completed. Based on your own statement this was done not before 1. August 2016. So all payments until 31. July 2016 must be paid without any conditions and/or requirements. For this payment he don't need to make any changes. It was complete unnecessary to harass the webmaster couple of times and it was illegal to blackmail him to make the changes. For further payments based on commission beginning with 1. August 2016 he has at least 14 days time for the changes. He has still 3 days left.

    You have to pay him the commission for at least July 2016 and before if there is something open without any conditions and/or requirements. If you refuse to pay or if someone else (e.g. GPWA) declares that the payment must not be done, then this is an illegal act under law and a breach of international usual practices and will reported by me, irrespective of what will happen after 22. August if here an unlawful act occurs.
    And "PoshFriends must pay comission to affiliate" is the primary reason of existence of this thread.

    And after he is paid then everyone can live with it and also Posh Friends will not lose their face, because they only follow the laws and standards, and this is not negative.

    Life isn't always a bowl of cherries, and learning never stops.
    Posh Friends should consider this case as an ideal occasion to further their personal development.
    This increases performance, the reputation and in the long run also the success.

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 14 August 2016 at 7:38 am.

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  11. #46
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    Announcement: i had conversation with both sides. As middleman. Now i self excluded from this process. All conversation between GPWA, PoshFriends and TTR now will continue without me.

    Thank you
    Moonlight Cat

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  13. #47
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    I wanted to thank you for all of your help in the Posh case, your efforts were appreciated.
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  15. #48
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    Dear community,


    We tried to reach a consensus with Affiliate for one week. We wished to follow Option 1 proposed by TheGooner, but we failed.
    That’s why we moved directly to Option 2. “2/ The affiliate refuses to correct the error, the program still releases the funds, but suspends the account (clicks don't work - no new signups) until the information is fixed.”


    Our decision:
    1. We paid July commissions in full and August commissions till the 9th of August (i. e. point of blacklisting).
    2. We suspended partnership with Affiliate according to our T&C.
    3. We are open to any form of further cooperation with Affiliate.

    We also want to thank all the members and GPWA administration for being involved and offering ways to solve the problem, especially for TheGooner for his reasonable approach and Moonlight Cat as topic starter.

    Thank you.

  16. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    1. We paid July commissions in full and August commissions till the 9th of August (i. e. point of blacklisting).
    2. We suspended partnership with Affiliate according to our T&C.

    Let's be clear situation.

    1.) You paid affiliate comission for 49 days period.

    2.) If i understand right, affiliate sent to your program many players. This players will generate income for a further long period. And it will be several and several times more then comission for this 49 days.

    3.) What mean term "suspended partnership". How about players? You cutt off players from affiliate?

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  18. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    I wanted to thank you for all of your help in the Posh case, your efforts were appreciated.
    I am confirm, that this dessision, has nothing in common with my proposals. My point of view, that affiliate program must pay comission for old players. Or affiliate program must pay compensation for old players if they want to cancel relationships with affiliate.

    In another case we have precedent, when some casino or sportsbook do something wrong, affiliate do not have any chance to tell true about this for they sites visitors/players. Because affiliate program may qualifies this as "black list" and "black piar" and will cutt affiliate from his old players. This is my personal point of view.

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  20. #51
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    By the way. The hero of this thread - TTR notify me, that he try to reply at this thread.
    But all his post on pre-moderation. Maybe we have some technical problem.
    Please check this http://www.gpwa.org/member/ttr
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  22. #52
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    Hello Moonlight Cat,

    I will try to explain, what is the situation.

    One thing is clear: It was never the intention of Posh Friends to pay this webmaster one Cent. The intention of Posh Friends was - if the webmaster does not subject himself to the proven blackmail - to withhold his earning also for July 2016.

    Evidence: Undeniable statements from Posh Friends in Russian forum and behaviour here in this thread (one must only read the lines carefully and between the lines) and backhole term in Russian Posh Friends program terms.

    ---

    After the public pressure in this international (!) thread (the decisive point) and the weird and public idea in this thread of Posh Friends to request from GPWA the role play of a rubber-stamper, they now pay the commission for July 2016 (and 9 more days).

    But they pay with the clenchend fist in the trouser pocket!

    And now listen, Moonlight Cat!
    Posh Friends now uses the backhole term.
    They "suspended partnership" with the webmaster.
    It's the official statement of Katja.
    They did not terminate the partnership, because this is not allowed when they are using their backhole term:

    Правила работы с Партнерской Программой PoshFriends
    [...]
    19. Партнерская Программа имеет право требовать указания верной информации в обзорах своих проектов на сайтах партнеров. В случае указания заведомо ложной информации, которая расходится с данными на сайтах проектов, ПП оставляет за собой право приостановить сотрудничество с Партнером.

    Translation:

    Rules for working with affiliate programs PoshFriends
    [...]
    19. Partner Program is entitled to specify the correct information in the reviews of their projects on the partner sites. In the case of indications of false information, which are at odds with the data on the sites of projects, PP reserves the right to suspend cooperation with partners.


    ---

    "Suspension" can not have any other meaning than that the contract is not terminated but quasi frozen.
    Payments will not be done as long as the account is suspended.

    Under international law it is controversial if in cases like this - during the time of suspension - the revenue share of existing players must be booked [on the webmaster's suspended account] or not.

    If he makes the changes on this website - as requested - then the suspension
    needs to be repealed and [at least] future revenue share for the old players must be paid as in the past. It's complete illegal to e.g. continue cooperation but booking out his old players.

    If the webmaster don't make the changes on this website - as requested - then the suspension continues
    for an indefinite period of time and is a de facto change into termination of the account. A compensation for his old players in this industry is not envisaged.

    ---

    Dear Moonlight Cat,

    Don't forget: Payment for July 2016 (and 9 more days) is more than he could expect.
    Without this thread and the public pressure he would left the race empty-handed.

    Leopold


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  24. #53
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    I have been delete all info about Poshfriend projects from the my site (inc blacklist etd)

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    Also I want to apologize in accusation of the project in DDOS attack, possibly the third party has wanted to create it.

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  28. #55
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    To clarify,

    There was NEVER anything wrong with the forum account TTR and it had NOT been placed on any additional restrictions. The posts in question were automatically placed into the mod cue based upon containing external links as posted by new forum members. (this is an automatic process that is automatically lifted after 1 posts)

    The post in question has since been removed since it dealt strictly with the DDOS attack accusation.

    Rick
    Universal4

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  30. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Let's be clear situation.

    1.) You paid affiliate comission for 49 days period.

    2.) If i understand right, affiliate sent to your program many players. This players will generate income for a further long period. And it will be several and several times more then comission for this 49 days.

    3.) What mean term "suspended partnership". How about players? You cutt off players from affiliate?

    Yes, after public termination of partnership (initiated by Affiliate), blacklisting us and our projects and black PR media campaign (including video on the youtube channel, blog post, threads etc) we suspend account according to out T&C. We do not technically cut off the player’s from Affiliate’s account. If Affiliate wishes to reboot cooperation, he can always contact us directly by any mean. We're ready to discuss any form of future cooperation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    After the public pressure in this international (!) thread (the decisive point) and the weird and public idea in this thread of Posh Friends to request from GPWA the role play of a rubber-stamper, they now pay the commission for July 2016 (and 9 more days).
    Without this thread and the public pressure he would left the race empty-handed.
    Dear Leopold,

    There was no need to make such big efforts translating Russian forum and reading between lines, because we never said that we’re not going to pay out. More than that, we pointed out that Affiliate’s account was active and we were ready to pay any time. Our decision remained the same from the very beginning of the incident and this thread was a platform for us to explain our position, but not the public pressure.

    We’re very sorry to see that you spent lots of your expensive time. That’s why we offer you to start working with us. For the same time you spent on messages here and Google translation you could already add our casinos to your website and made some money.

  31. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    Dear Leopold, [...] We’re very sorry to see that you spent lots of your expensive time. That’s why we offer you to start working with us. For the same time you spent on messages here and Google translation you could already add our casinos to your website and made some money.


    You are really a very amusing program.

    Players must pose for a selfie with their passport to get their money.
    Your casino group has demonstrably a dark past with pirated games.

    And now, after this shameful case, after you paid with the clenchend fist in the trouser pocket?
    Now you take bitter revenge!

    I have a good feeling for the behavioral pattern of shady programs.
    So I checked your terms again today.
    And?
    Surprise, surprise!
    I don't know, if you did it with or without knowledge of GPWA, but anyway, this is definitively the sign, that you not learned from the past, not learned from this case, that you indeed are a shady program, a shameful sponsor and that it is better to stay away from you at all cost.

    Why?

    You added [after you lost this case] now also in the English version of your terms a crummy term!
    A term, that is now an open door to blackmail everyone and not only the Russian webmaster and this time in every case!

    Here is the proof:

    Terms of work
    [...]
    19. Affiliate program reserves the right to hold Affiliate's account for public slander and insults towards the support and administration of the Affiliate program and / or projects.

    And that's not all:

    They added more!
    This are all terms, that were added now because of the current blackmail case:

    Terms of work
    [...]
    16. Affiliate Program has the right to demand correct information in the reviews of their projects on the Partner's websites. In the case of indications of false information, which differs from the data on the projects' websites, Affiliate Program reserves the right to suspend cooperation with Partner.

    17. Current T&C can be changed any time without prior notification.

    18. Affiliate program works on LastCookieWins basis.

    19. Affiliate program reserves the right to hold Affiliate's account for public slander and insults towards the support and administration of the Affiliate program and / or projects.


    ---

    Term 16. is the same term that was used in this case and was only visible in the Russian version of the terms before. Posh Friends think, they are clever. So they added now the final malicious term, because this malicious term - term 19 - is a complete new term and a free ticket to hold the money from everyone if these shady guys wants it.

    And I can proof this time, that they added this malicious term now and that it was not on their website before:

    Here is Google cache of the old English terms from 9. Aug. 2016 20:58:17 GMT:



    Source http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...TlHcGgUIOigJgM

    And here is screenshot of current terms:



    Conclusion:

    With "19. Affiliate program reserves the right to hold Affiliate's account for public slander and insults towards the support and administration of the Affiliate program and / or projects." this program is nothing else than a shady thieves guild, and this post verifies it.

    A "Gold Sponsor" who is allowed to use terms like that is a shame for the whole industry!

    By the way:



    They are too stupid or too lazy (see it the way you want) to change the terms also under the Swedish flag -although they are also written in English.

    So Katja ...

    Latest now you should now, what the "Streisand Effect" is.

    Leopold

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  33. #58
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    Leopold,


    Do you think that insulting GPWA members with the words «too stupid or too lazy» is appropriate behavior? We don’t think so.


    Regarding your comments,
    1. Google cache cannot be used instead of current version of T&C.
    2. Please, consider p. 6 of EN T&C.
    3. Our T&C are very simpl. For more than 2 years of our work we didn’t plan to add new paragraphs, because we have no reasons for that. It shows that we didn’t intend to have a confrontation with our partners.

    Cheers.

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    Those terms are not fair.
    Not even two years later...

    I'll be posting here.

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  36. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katja_PoshFriends View Post
    Do you think that insulting GPWA members with the words «too stupid or too lazy» is appropriate behavior?
    Well, "they" is not "you".
    "They" have no account here, because you are using a personalized account!
    I know, that you don't like the truths, but indeed it was a big mistake to forget the changes under the Swedish flag and as I wrote, it's a proven fact, that the owner of Posh Friends e.g. made their money in the past with pirated games.
    Do you want quotes?
    We call the use of pirated games a crime here in Germany.

    Leopold

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