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  1. #1
    graham's Avatar
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    Default Can someone from Betfair address this situation...

    Details can be seen in this thread:

    http://www.gpwa.org/forum/betfair-10...ms-193852.html

    Thanks,

    Graham

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  3. #2
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    Just bumping this up. It would be awesome if Betfair would comment.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

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    Squigley is offline Private Member
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    Still waiting for a response. As a sponsor, aren't they obliged to respond?

  5. #4
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    I just asked Anthony to track someone down from Betfair so we can hear what they have to say.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

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  7. #5
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    Just a quick note to say that the betfair affiliate team has been in touch with us about this situation. They have not responded in the thread because organizationally the issue is not with the affiliate program and so the affiliate team cannot really answer on behalf of betfair.

    The affiliate team does, however, realize the importance of the issue, and that the issue being raised does need a response, and so I am being placed in contact with the right folks at betfair to discuss the situation.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  9. #6
    Squigley is offline Private Member
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  11. #7
    lawnmower is offline Public Member
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    I too would like to see some progress on this.

    I am one of the people who partook of this Happy Hour promotion and have had over £4000 taken out of my Betfair account without any justifiable explanation.

    I have asked many times what T&Cs I transgressed and this is the quality of the replies:

    Sent to me 17 November 2010 15:37
    Certain customers attempted to profit from the promotion through adopting gaming patterns and activity in contravention of Betfair Casino's Standard Terms and Conditions. As a result, we have withheld both bonus funds and winnings derived from such activity on those customers' accounts, of which yours is one.

    Sent to me Tue 23/11/2010 21:57
    We have now had the opportunity to review your account activity in relation to our recent 'Happy Hour' promotion, and we thank you for your patience during that time.
    As a result of our investigation, and in light of our finding that you have acted in contravention of Betfair Casino's Standard Terms and Conditions, we have debited your account with a sum equivalent to the bonus funds and winnings associated with the 'Happy Hour' promotion in which you participated

    Sent to me Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:11 PM
    On the weekend of the 13/14th November Betfair ran a promotion for its casino product. It subsequently came to our attention that certain customers exploited the spirit of this promotion. The accounts of all customers that took part have been reviewed by Betfair, and corrective action has been taken where appropriate for those who acted in contravention of our terms and conditions. Betfair has corresponded directly with all customers who were affected by this. If any customer would like to discuss the matter further, they may contact the LGA in Malta by e-mailing xxx or telephoning +356 21316590
    I have put a complaint into IBAS who just reply that it is nothing to do with them. I have complained to LGA who have not even bothered to respond (others who have contacted the LGA have found them useless in this mater).

    They must justify what they have done. If T&Cs have genuinely been breached (and stand up to legal scrutiny) then just show me and I will accept the loss.

    If they cannot demonstrate this, then they have effectively taken money without permission which would board on steeling.

    Now I know I am a 'player' and this is a trade forum, but you guys must make sure that the gambling industry is cleanly and honestly run. What Betfair has done ranks with betting shops running out of a shed in Costa Rica!

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  13. #8
    Squigley is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawnmower View Post
    Now I know I am a 'player' and this is a trade forum, but you guys must make sure that the gambling industry is cleanly and honestly run. What Betfair has done ranks with betting shops running out of a shed in Costa Rica!
    Agreed.

    Saying that "organizationally the issue is not with the affiliate program" isn't really good enough. Casinos screwing players definitely should be an issue for affiliates.

  14. #9
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    I also agree with you lawnmower. Betfair needs to address this now otherwise they'll be going on my rogue list. I'll make it a personal mission to see them rogued at all the major forums.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

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  15. #10
    lawnmower is offline Public Member
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    I Can't post the link, but casinomeister has put BetFair on the Rogue list.

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  17. #11
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    Here's the link to Casinomeister's rogue announcement...
    Betfair Rogued at Casinomeister
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

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  19. #12
    graham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    Just a quick note to say that the betfair affiliate team has been in touch with us about this situation. They have not responded in the thread because organizationally the issue is not with the affiliate program and so the affiliate team cannot really answer on behalf of betfair.

    The affiliate team does, however, realize the importance of the issue, and that the issue being raised does need a response, and so I am being placed in contact with the right folks at betfair to discuss the situation.

    Michael
    Hopefully now that they have been rogued at Casinomeister they might feel more inclined to issue a response here. I am getting very close to removing them from my sites unless they respond soon.

  20. #13
    lawnmower is offline Public Member
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    Personally, I feel that there is an internal cover-up going on here. I doubt that (very) senior management truly knows what happened. I believe that they have been presented with the line of 'we were done over by a bunch of bonus abusers' and that would be good enough to sanction the removal of money from accounts.

    Why would the very senior management consider it anything other than standard punter abuse if told so? After all it is a problem for operators. Are they really going to bother reading public gambling forums to find out what really happened and what really it the feeling out there?

    Betfair are, at heart, an honest company. They are very profitable. They have no business need to act this way.

    Again personally, I feel that this will get righted once the correct people are in possession of a true picture of what went on. Time will tell.

  21. #14
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
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    I did have a fairly lengthy and constructive discussion with a representative of Betfair last Friday.

    The person I spoke with needed to follow-up internally, since the decisions about what Betfair is doing are made by a senior executive team to which he provides input. But he himself is a spokesperson and not an actual decision maker.

    Also, while the person I spoke with is the right person in terms of being the one who would communicate a response from Betfair to the questions being raised, he is not in a position to respond without first having general senior executive approval for at least the general nature of the response. The situation here is one that falls outside an area where the organization has an agreed stance that can easily be elaborated on in external statements.

    We are dealing, in my opinion, with a situation that is very different from any situation Betfair has had to deal with before, and the management team is finding itself without established procedures to follow.

    When organizations are faced with a crisis, and there are not established procedures, and the organization relies heavily on input from attorneys in its decision making process (which is pretty inevitable in cases like this), then rigid responses that are not sensitive to customers are far too common.

    In my opinion, that is exactly what we are dealing with here.

    I've told the folks from Betfair that I conceptually understand some of the challenges I believe they must be facing, but that they need to 1) communicate honestly and humbly and in detail about what has happened and the decisions they have made, 2) they need to set things right in the eyes of their community of customers, and 3) they need to do this fairly quickly.

    I have also sent a written communication to Betfair that their GPWA sponsorship is in jeopardy unless there is an adequate response to the issues that have been raised.

    And I have also made it very clear that I would appreciate the opportunity to speak with a member of Betfair's senior management team and to provide them with an external view of the current situation their organization is facing.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  23. #15
    lawnmower is offline Public Member
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    Wow! That’s awesome. Many thanks for perusing this.

  24. #16
    graham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    I did have a fairly lengthy and constructive discussion with a representative of Betfair last Friday.

    The person I spoke with needed to follow-up internally, since the decisions about what Betfair is doing are made by a senior executive team to which he provides input. But he himself is a spokesperson and not an actual decision maker.

    Also, while the person I spoke with is the right person in terms of being the one who would communicate a response from Betfair to the questions being raised, he is not in a position to respond without first having general senior executive approval for at least the general nature of the response. The situation here is one that falls outside an area where the organization has an agreed stance that can easily be elaborated on in external statements.

    We are dealing, in my opinion, with a situation that is very different from any situation Betfair has had to deal with before, and the management team is finding itself without established procedures to follow.

    When organizations are faced with a crisis, and there are not established procedures, and the organization relies heavily on input from attorneys in its decision making process (which is pretty inevitable in cases like this), then rigid responses that are not sensitive to customers are far too common.

    In my opinion, that is exactly what we are dealing with here.

    I've told the folks from Betfair that I conceptually understand some of the challenges I believe they must be facing, but that they need to 1) communicate honestly and humbly and in detail about what has happened and the decisions they have made, 2) they need to set things right in the eyes of their community of customers, and 3) they need to do this fairly quickly.

    I have also sent a written communication to Betfair that their GPWA sponsorship is in jeopardy unless there is an adequate response to the issues that have been raised.

    And I have also made it very clear that I would appreciate the opportunity to speak with a member of Betfair's senior management team and to provide them with an external view of the current situation their organization is facing.

    Michael
    Thanks Michael for running with this! I know what you mean about them needing to take time. The thing that concerns me is this happened originally on November 13th or 14th which was almost a month ago. They didn't take much time to take the money back so how much time do they really need to formulate a response. To me it seems like they are trying to find some kind of legal loophole making their actions just and still haven't been able to do so. Oh well, they are only hurting themselves, but I really don't want to have to drop Betfair as I think their Zero Lounge is one of the best things in online gaming and was something I was going to push heavily on my newer casino sites, but if they continue acting like this I am going to have no choice. Please, someone from Betfair tell us what is going on.

  25. #17
    DeannaD_IA is offline Former AM
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    Well, I know personally that this will be a huge lesson to take on board as an affiliate manager, in the event that a managed program runs into a sticky situation in the future. People are going to respect open communication, and will be more understanding of human error IF there is no passing of blame, or refusal/delay in dealing with the situation.



    Thanks for chasing up this issue

  26. #18
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    If its not resolved soon I will be willing to add them to the Belosers.com site.

    This site ranks number 1 in google for "Predatory Affiliate Programs" - and i can get it to rank for Rogue affiliate programs as well.

    If someone wants to write the history of this case i will add! I think when players start getting screwed like this - we need all eyes on it!

    It gets good traffic so i am sure it will help educate the masses.

  27. #19
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    I've been following the situation at CM from the start, and have been writing about it (and updating it) here: Betfair not so Fair

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    Just wanted to post what they had to say to Jeremy Enke at PAL!

    This was posted by Jeremy and was an email Betfair sent to him qoute from PAL forum.

    If anyone wants to write a history of this situation and the full facts I will post it on all my reviews of betfair and post on belosers.com



    <table class="quote_global quote_global-quote" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td class="quote_head">

    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote_name"> Quote:
    </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote_body"> Hi Jeremy,

    Please note that all affected customers have been responded to directly and Betfair will not be posting any responses on forums.


    Kind Regards,


    The Betfair Poker Affiliate Team


    Betfair. The World’s Biggest Betting Community.
    </td></tr></tbody></table>

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