Can we trust affiliate programs 100%?

[webmacho]

You are soo morbid ... I prefer the distance of time between my birth and death to be vast.

What is so morbid about death? Everybody is doing that, we are born to die. It is not morbid it is genial.

[bb1web]

Wow got sidetracked there with my outlook on life.

.............


testers. I have found its best or rather easiest to use someone who has contacted you about a problem they are having at a casino ... who is able to convey across paper in competent manner, what their problem was and the information you needed to investigate it.

Find one of those golden needles in the haystack and you have right off the bat found someone capable of the afore mentioned, whom obviously has a banking means to deposit/withdraw, and obviously has no conceivable means of being connected to you except for the one damn way you're hoping they will be , thru the tracking you'll be checking.

And another perk which I have found to be true is these are the best choices for achieving the angle of covering whales. They may not ... and then again, may be big rollers (probably not, most big players aren't interested in any kind of formal testing but they will easily give you info that is priceless, such as have you been playing much lately and at where? If you've already connected them to you, then you can see if your stats reflect what they said to you casually. If they don't ,. .... well depends on how good of relationship you have with them / whether to risk it ... you can ask them to help you map out a week's worth of play for last month some time. something like that.

What you should be aware too is this isn't a fix, it just points out where the bleeding is at. The fix is your own to do with. so what I'm saying is that it really doesn't matter to have 100% proof, if a place is cheating you then you can throw that in their face and they can easily go down the stats later and take another player / income then, to make up for anything they'd be forced to give up now.

So rather stupid to need 100% proof. You just need to be 100% sure, so you can know when it is time to cut your losses .. so to speak, or when its a matter of the place is tracking correctly, so you might stay with them.

This is kinda like a cheating mate. Odds are good if you catch them once, that somewhere ... they've done to you again ... and if you don't cut your losses .. they'll be doing it to you again and again. as long as you allow them. okay, brb in few.

.. more to come, I have to step out.

[bb1web]

back when i first started testing, many of the aff programs didn't respect us enough to even take the smallest of precautions to avoid getting caught.

you could literally follow your own link thru and many times it would not show up as tracking. (Odds are good if your personal traffic isn't showing up in stats ... that nobody else's is either).


Then there was that time when TopBoss and I teamed up and caught an AM in a big fat lie. If he had given us even enough respect to bothered to keep his story straight .. .we'd never have likely caught him.

Those days are gone!

.....

Now you need to be ready for the excuses you'll get, like that maybe your tester's cookies weren't allowed. The way you do that is .. if the first person you sent thru didn't track. . . send a second before bringing it to anybody's attention.

I promise there will be subtle details which you'll remember to have included in the second report .. that didn't come to mind in the first.

......

I should hasten to add that although I do think this is like a cheating mate situation, ... that it doesn't mean they're always guilty. Sometimes it is an honest mistake. I see them happen with CR (whom I think many of us can agree doesn't really have a reason to suddenly start picking on someone after having passed so many tests by so many webmasters over the years.

but they still have situations where the link code isn't installed on a certain page, perhaps a pop up, etc.

Same problems you and I have about just not being 100% perfect, nothing to do with intent to cheat.

They way you handle that is to simply ask your veteran friends in OG, what is the rep of this casino? tell them why, they may have other parts of your missing puzzle. Anyway in the end ... they should be able to tell you if the company is more suspect than most ... which is a definite red flag. If the reply is no, they are not known for cheating affs, then you might give a lot more credence towards it being just a mistake.

...........


Keep all this stuff written down somewhere and as unorganized as I am ... if I can make it work, .. (meaning sometimes i forget to write down stuff that would have been helpful and later I can't remember what I was suppose to write down) ... that really sucks but point is that if you can make it work NOT having some of the info then you know it will work with all the info needed.


...........


btw: when I first started out I often tested other affs link codes since I do have that one sign up at every casino like everybody else, and it was a good idea but has proven to fail me in one respect. Now, some close to 10 years later, most of my peers ... aren't peers any more.

In fact I don't have a clue how to reach people that i thought I'd probably know the rest of my life. So even though I would like to continue testing for them (because it is still a view into something you'd otherwise have not, even if it isn't going to prove anything about your own personal situation. It can't be done if I don't have them to check their stats for me.

If you want to know if a sign up from 5 years ago is still showing their activity in the casino ... then the best way to achieve checking on that is to be your own tester thru another affs link codes / stats.

because despite my experience, it is much more likely that 10 years from now ... you'll be able to find a peer as opposed to finding someone that was testing for you on a more casual basis.

People tend to come and go. So anyway do your best to keep your testers being someone that is likely to be located where you can reach them if necessary.

If I'd have thought that one last paragraph out better ... I'd be able to check on many more programs of which I believe I am still making money .. but that my stats show I am not.

[ironman2000]

As everyone here as said..................nothing is 100%

I can only say that I welcome Paul from Gambling Affiliates Union as another protector and its great to see that many are showing the seal of approval on their sites.

Happy trading throughout 2010

Keith

[Pam712]

I once remember a super affiliate saying that every single program skimmed... I dont think that is true but we did implement random tests - and I did catch one big program who I wont name here blatantly cheating. It disillusioned me.

As affiliates we rely so much on trust - we depend on programs to track correctly, honestly report our earings and pay on time. Ultimately our livelihood depends on it. For the most part I am happy to believe that program are honest enough to pay me what I am owed - there are a handful of programs I am not 100% convinced about, I havent yet gathered the evidence to prove otherwise. However if I do catch them and it is only a matter of time, you can bet I wont be keeping quiet about it

[HenrikGr]

Nothing in life is is 100% guaranteed...cept death .

and taxes

[AussieDave]

Hi All,

After 10 years in this industry, I'm past the point of promoting every casino out there in a hope I'll turn a buck.

I only promote a handful of casino groups, all of these are built on a foundation of trust. I know my aff managers very well, casino managers and in some cases owners too.

These programs pay me on time, keep records that don't deviate too far outside false positive clicks and my own tracking.
They also treat me extremely well.

These days the least headaches I have the better.



Cheers



Dave

[dhayman]

Juat a thought to get off my chest.
Can we trust affiliate programs 100%? I mean how do we know that every player that deposits is counted and is continued to be counted?

Can anyone set my mind in piece?

Cheers

The short answer is NO, BUT what other business do you know of where you consistent residual income from people you have (presumably) never met. I think the competition is getting to many programs these days, as the only the large ones are poised to survive, and this is resulting in some less-than-scrupulous behavior. When programs make a ton of money, they are more apt to share, and less apt to cheat, but I don't think the converse is true. I think we are looking at a function of the times currently.

[cameronlove4]

Never believe an Affiliate Program out of trust. Check and recheck the following aspects if you have already joined an affiliate program:

• Check the banner clicks. A genuine banner will record the clicks done. If the banner is a scam one then whatever times you click it, the statistics will show “zero” to you.
• Generally, the conversion rate of a particular online casino varies between 1 to 3% of the total number of visitors or unique visitors. If you observe that the total number of conversions of viewers sent by your site is close to zero then it is better to decipher that the concerned online casino is a fraud.

[AussieDave]

Juat a thought to get off my chest.
Can we trust affiliate programs 100%? I mean how do we know that every player that deposits is counted and is continued to be counted?

Short and sweet answer you can't.

However if your not monitoring (tracking) your traffic on what is being reported to you by the affiliate program tracking, then your fool.

As they say "a fool and his money are easily parted."

Any webmaster who is not using secondary tracking to monitor clicks, is doing themselves a disservice.

Apart from getting friends to sign-up and deposit at a casino to check if they are assigning all your players to you aff account, there is not much you can do to prove if a casino is screwing you over.

But by running all your links through a secondary tracker, you have data that can be compared to that of the affiliate program.

I've used this for the past 5 years. A simple php script that monitor all my aff links.
I generally allow a 10% deviation. But it becomes pretty clear, very soon if a program is fudging data.

As we say in the industry "scrapping my stats".

If your click stats and such look strange, it's also possible that other data is not Kosher too.


Cheers



Dave

[Renee]

Never believe an Affiliate Program out of trust. Check and recheck the following aspects if you have already joined an affiliate program:

• Check the banner clicks. A genuine banner will record the clicks done. If the banner is a scam one then whatever times you click it, the statistics will show “zero” to you.
  
• Generally, the conversion rate of a particular online casino varies between 1 to 3% of the total number of visitors or unique visitors. If you observe that the total number of conversions of viewers sent by your site is close to zero then it is better to decipher that the concerned online casino is a fraud.

I'm sorry I have to disagree here... If a casino doesn't convert for your traffic that is no true indication that it is a fraud casino.. some casinos just don't convert for some sites, and there is a reason why these figures are "average" - it means that not everyone will see that, but the majority should see somewhere in between.

In essence what you are saying above is that if someone sends 10 clicks only to a casino, and there are 0 conversions, then the casino is a fraud. I would say that is not enough data to distinguish anything and that the affiliate should test themselves by getting a friend to click on their banner, sign up and test it all out. That's the only real way to know.

[arkyt]

some casinos just don't convert for some sites

Over the years I have heard quite a few affiliate managers say the same thing ... and IMO thats an inaccurate statement at best.

Once the click leaves an affiliates site it is the job of the casino to close the sale - if that click doesn't result in a closed sale I'll go out on a limb and say its almost never the result of something the affiliate did.

Hypothetical example:
Affiliate sends casino A on software XYZ 1000 hits over 3 month period & it nets 0 players ...
Affiliate sends casino B on software XYZ 1000 hits over 3 month period & it nets 40 players ...

The difference in the results IMO are a result of casino A not closing the deal, stats not working properly, or worse case scenario for the affiliate, casino A using funny math when returning the results. It wasn't a case of the affiliates site not converting or a case of the traffic not converting.

Getting back to the original question ...

The entire Grand Prive issue has got to sit heavy on the minds of affiliates when they ask the question can we trust affiliate programs! If they can get by with that sort of thing and still be licensed to do business and still certified by eCOGRA as being "fair" - what else are they and others getting by with in the past present and future? Does the issue serve as an invitation for other programs to follow suit at some level?

.

[Renee]

OK, for the record, I never said it was the affiliate's fault, but now that you put words into my mouth, I thought of an example to prove that it could be.

If an affiliate has a link that says "Get $10 Free no deposit bonus. Click here"

The player clicks and gets to Golden Tiger Casino, where there is no $10 Free ND Bonus so leaves..

You're telling me that's the casinos fault?

Now you're going to come and say that you didn't mean it like that or whatever... that just means that I now did exactly what you did with my post - took it out of context..

I will reword my statement:

"some casinos just don't convert for some TRAFFIC". I never said ALL. I said SOME. This is not an opinion, it's what I and a lot of affiliate managers AND affiliates see every day (just read the threads here for example to see that some affiliates get conversions with one program while others dont) and I'm not saying that it's the affiliate's fault, so don't put words in my mouth.

My example was purely to object that getting 0% conversion on clicks is not an indication that the casino is a fraud and why.. And your post had nothing to do with that. You were just trying to attack me. Give an example that relates to what the thread is about. Quote my words in context please.

[arkyt]

Now you're going to come and say that you didn't mean it like that or whatever...

Nope - I completely 100% agree with you - the example where an affiliate has provided erroneous information is just one instance where the affiliates site has played a role in not converting the casino. Thats why I said "almost never" - I was very much aware of the scenario you mentioned.

I wasn't attacking you - I dont know you from Adam. What I was calling attention to was your comment that "some casinos just don't convert for some sites" ... by saying if all things are equal and the end result is no where near close, that its not out of the question to assume something is wrong.

Over the years more than a few managers have come to me and said "some casinos just don't convert for some sites" - each time their exposure was drastically reduced and in some cases totally eliminated.

[AussieDave]

Never believe an Affiliate Program out of trust. Check and recheck the following aspects if you have already joined an affiliate program:

• Check the banner clicks. A genuine banner will record the clicks done. If the banner is a scam one then whatever times you click it, the statistics will show “zero” to you.
• Generally, the conversion rate of a particular online casino varies between 1 to 3% of the total number of visitors or unique visitors. If you observe that the total number of conversions of viewers sent by your site is close to zero then it is better to decipher that the concerned online casino is a fraud.

For someone who states that are a relative noobie to this industry and posts to forums that you want to "learn the gambling games to win big from online casinos", you certainly seem to know more than your letting on. Maybe it's a ploy charged with a hidden agenda. Time will tell.

Don't misinterpret this as my objection to freedom of speech, it's not. What I have a problem with is people posting about subjects they've clearly admitted they know next to zip about. But for all intended purposes (whatever that is), add their 2 cents anyway.

For example:

"If the banner is a scam one then whatever times you click it, the statistics will show “zero” to you."

Every casino uses cookies. This is not reserved just for casinos. Main stream sites use these as well. This is why some sites will only display an advert to a user once. Using the same technology just because an affiliate click on a banner 100 times, it may only register 1 hit. It's not until that player downloads the casino software or signs- up as a player that the affiliate is assigned this players registration.

"Generally, the conversion rate of a particular online casino varies between 1 to 3% of the total number of visitors or unique visitors."

Which one is it? Unique visitors are combined into all visitors that make up the total number of site visitors.

Also 1 - 3% (the later maybe slightly high) the conversation ratios are directly influenced by the quality of traffic you are sending to the casino.

If your sending generic gambling traffic then your conversion ratios are going to be a lot less, even to the ball park of 0.05%.

However if your sending highly targeted traffic that's suited to your niche site, these conversion ratios are going to reflect a higher value.

Another factor also depends on target traffic your niche site attracts. If you offering free no deposit bonuses and your promoting deposit bonuses, then your likely to see piss poor conversion ratios.

Reiterating I applaud freedom of speech but filling people's heads with misguided information is a topic I'll never agree with.



Cheers



Dave