CardSpike / CAP / Gambling911

[GamTrak]

Posted by the Professor at PAP on 01/06/09 and since no one bothered to report about the lastest news here (that I can find) I will.

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I received the following message from CAKE Poker on behalf of CardSpike today:

Great news – all affiliates have been paid. Any other affiliates who claim they have not been paid have simply not met the $100 min payment threshold and they can verify that by logging into cardspikeaffiliates.com.

This is definitely good news and a step in the right direction.
All affiliates who are due monies can do a withdrawel via their CardSpike Players account and the money transfer will be expedited via the method you choose.

Please note one large affiliate is being paid via Wire and that has been processed as well.

source

[GamTrak]

Now there's some factual information for those requesting some. But be quiet no one is suppose to know.

Oh Yeah and BTW if stealing and burning players is drama then I belong in a different Galaxy.
LOL

greek39

Hi Peter,

I only said that about the player database because I don't have any knowledge of what happened other than seeing it splashed over at another popular gossip hole of a forum and being that I've been the target over there of many lies for years until recently when I had to get ugly and take a stand on it so I'm NOT going to debate you guys over it, but I certainly never said that YOU or others could not discuss it so have at it if that floats your boat!

I only talk about things that I have personal knowledge of because in this industry, your word is important and I'm not one to gossip and talk BS about folks just because it's the popular thing to do. That is why I speak up like I do.

[ck8795]

HI Robin thanks for posting. I do want to say that there are still affilates who have not been paid and have said they met the min $100 which is why we are waiting for this to happen so we could report it.

http://www.pokeraffiliateprograms.co...e-payment.html

http://www.pokeraffiliateprograms.co...o-contact.html

Could be a delay so we will wait and see what happens. Once I know that everyone is good than I will come back and post again

[alexpratt]

CAP's official statement is here http://www.onlinecasinoreports.com/n...ap-comment.php

Hopefully with this, ASP's statement plus Cake's staement which I understand will be released very soon we will stop jumping to conclusions and spreading malicious rumours which are actually hurting people's livlihoods

What we have here is a rogue operator which 100% needs to be dealt with - Michael I strongly suggest you lock this thread and start a new one that is on exactly that subject as we must concentrate on that and not the propaganda people seem intent on spreading

[universal4]

I am glad that we finally have a few official statements about the situation, and I commend Cake for acting quickly to get things moving toward a resolution.

I am against the thread being locked however, I think it will help keep things in perspective and may actually show some people why things need to be thoroughly investigated and that facts need to be presented before things get out of proportion.

Rick
Universal4

[MichaelCorfman]

Affiliate Speed Pay,

Welcome to our forums and I'm pleased to have you participate here. In part of your response you stated the following:

• Affiliate Speedpay is not owned by CAP nor any individual associated with CAP.
• Neither CAP nor any individual associated with CAP has any shareholding or financial interest in Affiliate Speedpay
• Neither Affiliate Speedpay nor any individual associated with Affiliate Speedpay has any shareholding or financial interest or ownership in CAP
• CAP are merely a marketing partner

I'm having a hard time reconciling these statements with the fact that Lou personally told me that he "owned" affiliate speed pay a year and a half ago. At the time I did not interpret that as necessarily meaning that the ownership was 100%, but just that he at least had some beneficial interest in the business. And I'm not the only one who was told this. Additionally, Lou (the Professor) also made posts on the CAP website that presented the relationship as stronger than just a marketing relationship in the same timeframe:

We are the operators of Affiliate SpeedPay so you can be assured your data will be safe.

The actual post is here: www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/affiliatespeedpay-com.22010.html

Saying "We are the operators" certainly sounds consistent with what Lou told me and also sounds like more than just some marketing role.

We did think about calling CAPCard, but remember its an affiliate payment solution that will also be used in the retail sector. We therefore went with a name which reflects it true nature and doesnt sound like a gaming only product (its not)

The actual post is here: www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/showpost.php?p=134688&postcount=11

Again, to me this comment sounds like CAP views itself as more than just a mere marketing partner.

More recently, in the last GPWA Times magazine, we ran an add for affiliate speed pay as a favor to CAP, because they had an ownership interest, and because I was continuing in a futile effort to maintain a positive relationship. I did not receive any comment back indicating I was mistaken in understanding there was an ownership relationship.

Any help reconciling this information with your statement that CAP is "merely" a marketing partner would be appreciated. I certainly am not interested in misrepresenting the situation. My ownership statements were based directly on statements made to me by Lou that I felt I had every reason to view as accurate.

Maybe Lou represented that he "owned" affiliate speed pay because he was using the term loosely to represent that CAP had a financial stake in its performance based on a contractual relationship rather than based on an equity relationship? These sorts of relationships can be structured financially so the difference is almost meaningless from a financial perspective.

Michael

[TheCPA]

It was always my impression that Affiliate Speed Pay was nothing more than a "Branded Credit/Debit card situation whereby the organization that branded the Card would make a percentage of the transactions, and would market their branded card via a site specific to that branded card.

They may own the Domain and market the card, but there is 100% NO DOUBT in my mind that the Bank itself controls the sensitive data, issues, and administers the card itself.

Not unlike an At&T visa Card, and NFL Visa Card, etc.
There are 1000's of them.

So the statement that CAP owns Affiliate Speed Pay might actually be correct statement, but that doesn't mean they own the bank issuing the card.

Any of us can be an affiliate for almost any bank, or get a branded Card of our own.
I had done this myself in my Real world business before I retired.
It's not a huge deal.

Anyway, that's where the confusion might be. JMO though!

[wagerprofits]

Michael

I dont think many affiliate managers/ directors are willing to post in this forum as I am sure they are worried that the guys from CAP/PAP will read it and they are worried about being banned.

But I wanted to post I belive in freedom of speach and those that know me iknow that I am very outspoken, I do not know the full details of the beef you guys and CAP/PAP have but as Wager Profits is one all three sites i would like to see you all work with each other, within this industry we have enough to deal with and i just dont feel we should be fighting against each other.

I think the GPWA do a great job i also think CAP and PAP do a great job the events they host are world class and I always thought that having you guys at them was great it showed a united industry.

I do really hope that CAP/PAP and the GPWA crew can find a way in the very near future to work with each other rather than against each other.

Sorry if this is slightly off topic with this thread but i wanted to say what i have.

Thanks

Shaun

[Caruso]

The truth should not have to take second place to profit, Shaun.

[pgaming]

Hey Shaun thanks for speaking up surely adds my vote of confidence. Freedom of thought, expressions etc… basic human rights that should be cherished. Without it we would all still be thinking our Sun orbits the Earth.

I suppose there are those who oppose truth, seek truth, ignore truth, embrace truth, or hide truth.

Gamtrak, no slapstick intended but I feel these brokered Data Base sales is a very serious issue. I also choose not too debate the issue either. But will say, spam email, identity theft, poaching players, to list a few.

Michael, if it means much, you definitely have my vote of confidence. I have no doubts the message you are attempting to convey is truth, thank you!

greek39

[Rhino]

It sounds like a huge mess
Misplaced loyalties.

Money is the end game.

[GamTrak]

Gamtrak, no slapstick intended but I feel these brokered Data Base sales is a very serious issue. I also choose not too debate the issue either. But will say, spam email, identity theft, poaching players, to list a few.

None taken greek!

I'd like to know who died and made gambling911 and others GOD and the judge of others? I have confidence in Lou when he tells me something and just because someone sais something different DOES NOT make it TRUE!

Yep, it's very serious. In the effort of full disclosure I have to admit that I purchased a CD with 25,000 email address on it in 2001 before I realized that it was not the right thing to do. What does that make me? Are you going to place me in the category that you do the Professor? I have also asked two AM's for help with sending my 10k mailer, which means that they would have my data so am I a bad unethical person for doing that?

Great post Shuan (hope all is well with you and yours) except the part where AM's are afraid of getting banned part. Anyone scared to speak up needs to get some backbone and speak up be it against GPWA or CAP.

[wagerprofits]

Caruso

I agree with what you say, but to date no real proof has been shown of any real wrong doing via CAP.

I am supporter of all three camps and i do not plan to takes sides, for me I would love to see CAP and GPWA sort things out and return to a united front.

I can understand the GPWA opening this thread and the previous one about CAP but I felt that the G911 interview was a step to far and I hope it dies not come back and bite the GPWA in the ass.

Anyway new year new start 2009 is going to be a good one, i predict the US will open its doors to us all and we will all make a load of money.

Shaun

The truth should not have to take second place to profit, Shaun.

[wagerprofits]

Hi GamTrak

Thank you for the compliment, all is well work wise just getting ready for the new baby to arrive about 60 days and counting down.

Hope to meet up with you in london in a couple weeks.


Shaun

None taken greek!

I'd like to know who died and made gambling911 and others GOD and the judge of others? I have confidence in Lou when he tells me something and just because someone sais something different DOES NOT make it TRUE!

Yep, it's very serious. In the effort of full disclosure I have to admit that I purchased a CD with 25,000 email address on it in 2001 before I realized that it was not the right thing to do. What does that make me? Are you going to place me in the category that you do the Professor? I have also asked two AM's for help with sending my 10k mailer, which means that they would have my data so am I a bad unethical person for doing that?

Great post Shuan (hope all is well with you and yours) except the part where AM's are afraid of getting banned part. Anyone scared to speak up needs to get some backbone and speak up be it against GPWA or CAP.

[alexpratt]

GEEZ!

Guys can we remember this thread is about CardSpike being rogue - If you ask me they will love the fact that this thread has been derailed and the point completely changed

At the end of the day ASP has made a clear statement that they have nothing to do with CAP or CardSpike and CAP has made a clear statement that they have nothing to do with CardSpike

SO

lets get back to the point and get all these players and affiliates paid ASAP

The more this so called "feud" or "war" is discussed the more it becomes a reality when it really doesn't need to - I have said it before, but please remember the propaganda, false accusations and and the fueling the fire actually affect people's business's and in turn their employee's livlihoods - It might be just text and an interesting read over a coffee to some people but it is very important to the people actually involved

SO CardSpike - What are we actually going to do to ensure everyone gets paid and they don't ever pick up an affiliate or player again

[arkyt]

Caruso

I agree with what you say, but to date no real proof has been shown of any real wrong doing via CAP.

Right - CAP has never done anything wrong - perfect angels over there... Now yet again everyone shut up, shovel this under a rug, and get back to what you were doing.... now!

[casinobonusguy]

I will just wait til the lawsuits get filed to make up my mind ,If this isn't true I am sure lou will be suing them all very soon -at least I would if i were him

[Caruso]

That's exactly why you can be pretty much sure it's true. No way Michael would go out on a limb without being able to either prove it all, or have the kind of evidence that makes CAP ownership a totally reasonable conclusion to draw.

[GamTrak]

Are lawsuits involved you ask?

Is the sun yellow? Well, if you answered YES then chances are that you would be correct and can assume that lawsuits will be flying!

That's exactly why you can be pretty much sure it's true. No way Michael would go out on a limb without being able to either prove it all, or have the kind of evidence that makes CAP ownership a totally reasonable conclusion to draw.

I would not put any money on it if I were you.

[Caruso]

It seems pretty likely though.

However, I note that Michael has now amended his remarks re. Affiliate Speed Pay - apparently CAP / Fabiano were "mistaken" when they said they owned it. How do you not own something but think you do?

There's been a lot of talk about the ownership of Cardspike being irrelevant. It is not. If it were anyone else it would be, ie. if it were some tuppence ha’penny nothingverymuch running another rogue poker room, so what who it happens to be? The case is different when the owner may be an influential affiliate. Brian Cullingworth, with whom I have a substantial tendency to disagree, put one aspect well:

Those accused of being the owners have a uniquely influential role as affiliate community hosts, and such an ownership, if not made public, would be questionable imo.

This is to say nothing of the fact that if CAP were behind it, then CAP would have been directly screwing players. The fact of a possibly non-managerial (investor) status would be a beside-the-point technicality – you pay the piper, you call the tune. Think about this scenario for more than ten seconds and the implications are immense.

However, now that CAP have been downgraded from "owners" of ASP to "it was a mistake, we're not the owners", I now have a little niggle which is telling me that the alleged CAP ownership of Cardspike may well morph into another "mistake" in the coming days, and we'll all be none the wiser on the basis of denials and retractions, ie. it'll be another typically unsatisfactory outcome where the power of the threat of legal action will win the day.

Now THAT I'll put money on.