Clubworld won't pay

[ebruduck]

Don't you all agree that they have to pay in USD or EURO ?

I made a honest mistake and open in currency I was not allowed.

In the cashier it said desired currency and not supported currency.

ok, I made a mistake and did not check the terms of use, don't you all agree that this is not a reason to confiscate winnings, I did not committed any fraud, they should pay but in the currency I was allowed to play don't they ?

is there any affiliate that work with clubworld (right now they are RTG) that may help? I feel they really screw me around using lame a lame excuse not to pay.

[topboss]

Whilst I agree that they shouldn't pay you in GPB - I do feel that they should pay you the equivalent in US Dollars or Euro - or even half of the winnings as a gesture of goodwill.

I wonder if they would have returned your deposits to you if you had lost ?? (with a note saying they should not have accepted it in the first place etc etc.)

[1CasinoListing]

Hi Topboss.

Although I do agree with your last statement, I guess the answer will be that it was the players own responsibilty and therefore they forfeited their money.

Of course there is the problem of "Did the player not adhere to the Terms and Conditions knowingly" or "unknowingly". The player that tried to fool the casinos will most of the time say unknowingly even though he / she was fully aware of the terms, likewise the casino that takes this stance will most of the time opt for the "knowingly" side.

A very sticky situation.

Having said that much, whether I play in Dollard, Euros or Pounds, if I have to wager the bonus or bonus and deposit x times before I can cash in I can see no advantage. Whether I have to wager $100 30 times or £100 30 times, the chances of winning etc. don't change. The only difference is that I win more if I do win. But I also lose more...

I think at the moment I get 1.8 dollars to the GBP. So if I loose a £100 I loose $180. As the casino has the edge I would expect that overall the currency should not really matter. In a singular case like this, yes the casino would have lost out. But they would have the same problem if the player had come from the UK.

[ebruduck]

I saw at the terms desired amount and did not read the term of use, I did read the ptomorion terms and nothing was mentioned there.

I played blackjack and won, I am asked them to pay instead of 2050 GBP 2050 USD

They refused, I think it is a bad sign and bad behavior.

This is why I am pissed, this is why I am asking someone who works with them to explain them the situation that they should pay the amount in USD or the currency they think they should pay.

Confiscating the winnings only because the wrong currency was used is not acceptible

I played when their software was Chartwell technology, now they are RTG.

[1CasinoListing]

Can you tell us why CasinoMeister decided in favour of the casino? Is there maybe more to this story then you are leading us to believe?

[ebruduck]

The casinomeister did not decide in favor of the casino.

Casinomeister helped me with a no pay issue with Swiss casino and they paid me.

The casinomeister contacted the casino and they told him they are not going to pay.

I got an email from Bryan Bailey that I am not going to publish that the casino seems to be firm on not paying me.

He never mentioned he is in favor of the casino.

He probably would not blacklist them because it was written in the terms and also because he does not like to help player that won with a bonus inside their cashous.

If you take a look at what is going on at the Casinomeister website you can see that the casinoemeister will not help players that won using a bonus and the casinos decided not to pay the, especially if a large amount is involved and then the casino has the "right" to protect themselves.

[Caruso]

Originally Posted by 1CasinoListing

Can you tell us why CasinoMeister decided in favour of the casino? Is there maybe more to this story then you are leading us to believe?

Even if this were the case - which, as has already been pointed out, it isn't - the decision of a webmaster with the kind of negative attitude towards players that Bailey has shown himself to have on the basis of recent decisions, would hardly be relevant.

As to there being "more to this story then you are leading us to believe", the facts are simple enough - why this implication that he might be withholding something?

1) The cashier stated "choose your desired currency".

2) The player chose his desired currency.

3) The casino confiscated his winnings on the basis of a contradictory term buried elsewhere on the site.

What "more" are you looking for?

Originally Posted by topboss

Whilst I agree that they shouldn't pay you in GPB - I do feel that they should pay you the equivalent in US Dollars or Euro - or even half of the winnings as a gesture of goodwill.

They should pay half, on the basis that the USD is almost exactly half the GBP currently. Not as a goodwill gesture - there is no goodwill whatsoever on display here - but as the right resolution on the basis of the "contradictory" term the responsibility of the placing of which is with the casino. It is not the player's responsibility to interpret "desired currency" as "native currency".

[1CasinoListing]

Fine... I just sit here and nod.

"At the website they had a link called cashier at the home page, it stated there "play at your desired currency", I remember the word desire, it was there and had been removed after I intervene the casinomeister then they changed it to your supported currencies."

As it was AFTER CasinoMeister intervened, I can only assume that CasinoMeister has seen this as well. Do any of you (ebruduck, Caruso, CasinoMeister) have proof that it said play in your desired currency before he intervened?

Please correct me if I am wrong. The old CWC was a no-download Flash casino? Don't you agree that the Terms of use are then normally on the website and not in an agreement you see when you install the software?

"At the terms of use they had a term that you may not open the account at GBP if you are not from England but it was a complete discrepancy with the sentence at the cashier, open your desired currency."

If the non-UK players can not play in GBP applies in general, not just for the bonus, why would they put this info in the bonus terms and conditions? I would put it in the general Terms and Conditions or like they did in the Terms of Use. These are the Terms under which you are allowed to play at their casino regardless of the bonus.

Although I think under normal circumstances it should not make a difference if a player deposits in GBP, USD or Euros as I already stated above, there can be other circumstances for the casino to not allow play in certain currencies. Have any of you spoken to the casino and asked why this term was in place in the first place? Have any of you asked the casino what they have done when players deposited in GBP whilst according to the terms of use they were not allowed to do so?

I have checked at CasinoMeister and found this thread: http://xxwww.casinomeister.com/forum...my-2-cent.html.

I know it is about their new RTG casino, but all I see is positive feedback. Quick payment etc.

One of the problems I have with this issue is that ebruduck does state himself that it said in the Terms of Use that only players from England were allowed to play in GBP (or at least something in those words as normally they would have used "UK" or "United Kingdom" otherwise where does that leave the Scottish and Welsh players?). In the first post it appears as if he did read the Terms of Use and did see it as he states "but it was a complete discrepancy with the sentence at the cashier". In another post he says he did not read the Terms of Use. A bit confusing when you read it all.

[CityGuard]

There are a lot of issues here, both in terms of questions of fact and questions of what constitutes fairness.

1) Did the player violate casino policy?

2) Do/does casino policy proscribe a specific response to the alleged violation(s)? Relatedly, under what conditions do/does casino policy permit confiscation of funds?

3) Are the Terms of Use applied consistently? If not, what motivated enforcement of Terms of Use in this case?

4) Do relevant supervisory bodies (software providers, regulatory agencies, etc.) prohibit the types of policies enacted by the casino?

In a judgement of fairness concerning law and procedure, adherence under these policy questions is sufficient. However, in a judgment of fairness concerning reputability and publicity, it is not sufficient that policy be abided by -- the policy itself must be fair. (Of course, any policy would be more fair than the same actions taken without prior notification through publicly-available policy.)

This create a fourth question:
If a specific response to policy violation is outlined or authorized by casino policy, is that response appropriate to the type of violation?

I would like to look into this case further, and wanted to present these questions as a starting point before getting into the facts of the case. I've got a number of other cases I'm working on behind the scenes, so I am unlikely to get to this right away -- but I wanted to put these questions out there to get a sense of whether people thought these made sense as a basis for judging fairness.

[ebruduck]

Ok Here are some facts :

1. I did not read the terms of use before I started playing only the promotion terms for the bonus I got

2. It said desired currency and then they amended it but I have no proof to that statement. The casinomeister emailed me and mentioned what they told him, they told him supported currency , he should not have any proof himself.

3. In the terms of use there was a line between many lines that stated that only players from the UK are allowed to play in GBP BUT it did not mentioned anything such as we will confiscate winnings is such a thing happens.

The account was opened in GBP because it was my desired currency.

The word desired express one thing to me, we as a casino will be more than happy to take any money and any currency from you and pay you if you are lucky to win.

This is the word desired to me. I don't have any proof but I remember that and sure 100%.

I am sure many people are making mistakes in currency like that in many casinos.

The casino should say, listen player, you violated the terms therefore we closed your account and opened a USD account for you and you will have to suffer losing the difference in currency.

We therefore pay you 2050 USD and not 2050 GBP, this is acceptible.

To tell a player, listen you violated the terms, we deny your games winnings, we deny the words desired.

We are going to erase your winnings and bring your balance to zero, this 5s totally not acceptable