Dancing Around the Truth About CardSpike

[Brandon]

What difference does it make? It's not like a new thread can't be created at other forums.

A locked thread is not a crime and he obviously has his reasons and since most of CAP will be traveling to the convention I can see him not wanting the thread to get out of hand plus the fact that it is HIS forum.

He asked Bryan to see him in London so I hope that it happens.

If it was about a different Poker Room would it be locked? If they had nothing to hide and weren't afraid of people conversing about it on their site, would it be locked?

Also, I know you are a firm supporter of them Gamtrak, and I respect that I do. I would like to know though what your thoughts are on the rest of my post that you did not respond to?

[mojo]

Hi Mojo,

From reading the response I don't think the Professor is going to address CM's questions in a public forum. Atleast that's how I read it.

Hi Robin,

Ok, I see. CM has responded in a new thread since the other was locked. Trying to follow all of this because it gets so confusing and it will never end without transparency.

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...cy.33665.html?

[Nodepositworld]

Ok , from a marketing poit here is an idea. Get a chat room, place banners all around it and have everybody involved in this mess join the chat at a specific date & time. Imagine the views the banners would get lol !!!
But you best get a huge chat room because alot of people will be there to watch. ( Have your copy and paste button ready )

[GamTrak]

Sorry, I did not mean to be short. It's been another crazy day.

[Nodepositworld]

Its OK Gamtrak, you're a veteran you will get through this day

[ck8795]

GamTrak you asked a few weeks ago for proof. I understand that you dont wanto jump to conclusions but how much more do you need?

Seriously, in the last month we have seen Lou and Warren say no we dont have nothing to do with CS , to well we sorta have something to do with them to now seeing a proposal agreement. Do you need his signature or just him admitting it himself, because I highly doubt either Lou or Warren would come clean at this point even if they had the integrity to do so.

You asked for proof and Michael gave it to you.

Why are all threads at CAP locked after they make their big hoopla speech? Why do they not allow their OWN members the right to ask their questions?

Why do Lou and Warren still owe affiliates money for CardSpike?

I dont see CasinoMeister hacking into GPWA or PAP/CAP, I dont see Jeremy trying to hack into the other forums, but yet someone from CAP feels that this is something they should be doing. Before you ask them why they tried to hack into Jeremy's account remember that they did this two months ago at PAP when they banned him than started posting for him as a "joke"

These are not things people who respect others do, nor are they things that people who have a high regard for the community as a whole and work towards developing it do.

what we do and how we support and develop the affiliate community and this industry like no one else.

I would just like to add that none of this would have happened had they paid their affiliates. I knew of AbsoluteSlots back in Nov..knew as in Lou said they were consulting for them and CardSpike when I asked if they owned it. I didnt see an issue because they were paying affiliates. Had they paid CardSpike affiliates things would have been a million times different right now. The fact that they still owe affiliates and its almost Feb is disgusting

[TheGamblingGuru]

What a dweeb Lou is, jeeze, he makes that long post there and then he does not even give Bryan the chance to answer to it in the same thread. This guy just ain't right in the head folks.

[GamTrak]

Hi Kaus,

I'm just saying that you can't force the Professor to do what you or anyone wants so see it for what it's worth. What are you guys gonna do corner him and beat a confession out of him or something?

Personally, I'm at CAP in order to help the community as a whole not because I approve of what Lou and Warren does. CAP is way bigger than just them and just because I'm a member/moderator does not mean that I'm unethical or condone what has happened so don't put that on me please.

I'm a member of all of the forums involved, have friends on both sides and wish it to stay that way.

Have a nice day.

[TheGamblingGuru]

Casinomeister: And then I'd put the bong away; managing an entity that I am supposedly "Certifying" is just a dope smoker's dream to begin with.

I think this statement that Bryan made in the other thread there says it all...

[ck8795]

Im sorry if my post seemed like I was attacking you or what you do. That wasnt the intention. It just pisses me off because they have been incredibly iggnorant to so many people its unreal. and yes I have seen this myself and also read chat logs. I dont care if he confesses or not because I have already made up my mind. TBH like I said to someone else. The two of them are in wayyyyyyy to deep now that admitting to most of whats happened is probably not even an option at this point anymore.

The fact that they still owe money to affiliates is terrible and yet they defend their position as if it makes them better. Pay the people you owe money to and then try to figure out a way to move on from this. I am sure most would like that, but you cant expect that to happen until affiliates are paid

Its funny because myself and alot of other people had really thought CardSpike would make a great room for players and we were all really excited to push that room and support the program. Its a shame things went this way instead

Like everyone else I would love to hear what some of the programs think though in regards to JTodds video and recent statements, although I am sure they cant say to much.

Again Robin sorry if my post seemed like I was attacking you...I didnt mean to

[GamTrak]

I understand Kaus and it's okay. I feel your pain and understand EXACTLY how you feel.

I'm sorry Brandon that I snapped at you as well. I like all of you guys and due to the fact that I'm at CAP I'm always on the defense and say things that I do not mean or shouldn't say.

[Brandon]

I understand Kaus and it's okay. I feel your pain and understand EXACTLY how you feel.

I'm sorry Brandon that I snapped at you as well. I like all of you guys and due to the fact that I'm at CAP I'm always on the defense and say things that I do not mean or shouldn't say.

Appreciate that, and same here.

[Fergie]

Now that we understand the problem, what is the solution?

[Anti-Corruption]

Just off the cuff, Fergie, the first things that come to mind for me are things like complete common sense legalization and regulation in my home town the United States, including thinking and talking about standardized and transparent affiliate software; continued freedom of the 'press' so that what the press does best, report on truth for the benefit of society, keeps on happening; the people with the courage and the will to dig up and report on the truth remaining willing to report to the bitter end - bitter only for the demise of what harms industry and society, that is - and not allow themselves to be bamboozled, dissuaded, sell out or be bought out, especially when someone is a big fish with a big name that gets big people silent and hung up about short term dollar signs...I guess the short answer for me now is simply don't give up, don't drop it, and just keep going. It's only when people drop it that yesterday's headline conveniently fades into oblivion and the same people go right back to getting away with the same things and worse, while the public goes about like sheep to slaughter in blissful forgetfulness and the ones who benefited from the status quo are all too happy to leave everything swept under the faded rug of forgotten history. Watergate didn't bear all of its fruit in a day, and neither should this be expected to. But if reform comes to the US, I suspect not giving up may bear greater fruit than what appears now, and perhaps more may also be willing to finally open their mouths to the benefit of the industry.

[Betpartners]

Hi to all, this is my very first post here on GPWA and if i am honest i was driven to it over this whole sorry saga that seems to be dividing loyalties and slowly but surely having an eroding effect on CAP whether justified or not.

For the record my area of work is mainly sportsbooks, i have almost nothing to do with Poker or Casinos so my opinion here is nothing more than an outsider looking in.

I know nothing of the reputations etc of the parties involved and those that have given opinions already, apologises for my ignorance.

I have read everything connected with this on GPWA as well as on CAP and am shortly going over to Casinomeister forum to see their perspective, i am certainly a nosey person, it is however sad the way this has been played out.

From what i have read to date their is without doubt a case to be answered though on what platform that is answered is another matter, i am not convinced that GPWA is the platform for this as they are in effect prosecutor in chief.

Neither would i see Casinomeister as an appropriate forum for this to be aired as some have suggested mainly because an opinion by them has been expressed and to some extent the decision not to attend CAP euro speaks volumes.

Not that this is any reflection on casinomeister, it certainly is not, just a case of once opinions have been informed it then becomes difficult to garner an impartial judgement.

Now from what i have seen on APCW videos, Cap videos, forums and such like there does "appear" to be a conflict of interest here and from an outsiders point of view without understanding who is who CAP does have a case to answer, certainly to its certified members.

That said i have also been alarmed at what can best be described a kangaroo court/investigation.

This accusuations and evidence have been given in a drip drip fashion, and when this happens, when an acusation has been made it can be a case of the evidence fitting the arguement.

Now i am not sugegsting GPWA have done this, not at all, it may well ahve been circumstances that dictated the means of releasing info, however a much better way of doing this would have been to ahve made the initial allegations and then gathered all the evidence however long it takes and release a final report.

To release eveidence via videos and forum posts over a period of time is not in my opinion the best way forward.

Neither is it correct that it is a competitor that carries out the investigation, it would have been far better if GPWA would have contacted an impartial organsiations, say casinomeister before they expressed their opinion and presented them with the documentation and asked them to make a report.

I have seen the evidence as presented and it is compelling, however without suffiecient response from CAP it is far from absolute, neither is it in my opinion enough to label CAP liars, unethical or whatever.

If my opinion is woth anything based on what i ahve seen CAP are in a situation that is a clear conflict of interest, this i admit, but is the evidnce enough for me to say without doubt they are guilty, no it is not.

The investigation was carried out by the wrong party, it is a flawed investigation, it is very one sided albeit not their fault and it is not without agenda in my opinion.

Some of the actions of GPWA in this matter leave a sour taste, the comments have on occasions been without merit and the lynchmob mentality that has taken over this saga is not appealing at all.

A look at the chronological events here shows clearly that some members screamed guilty based on the flimsiest of eveidence at the start, the fact that the eveidence has hardened since then is irrelevant, to scream guilty before that eveidence has hardened just shows that ones mind was made up already, how can CAP be expected to respond to that.

For their part CAP are without doubt not conducting themsleves in a transparanet way, maybe this is because they are being prosecuted in a public arena by a competitor, but that said their actions do give a sense of cover up.

For an organisation that insists on clear transparancy from its members and yet does not practise this as CAP is doing is at the very best hypocritical and at worst negligent in its role as guardians of affiliates interests.

I have no doubt if a certified member on CAP acted in the way CAP have done they would have been strung up and the powerful reach it hs to expose a member trying to hide would have been utilised i am sure.

CAP may well not like the fact that it is a competitor who is making these allegations and they may not like the manner in which this whole thing has been prosecuted and i can understand that, but to refuse to answer questions from its own forum members or close posts or make no attempt to draw a third party in to this only adds fuel to GWPA accusations.

I mean CAP has a great opportunity to smash these accusations out of the ball park and thus undermining GPWA but it has not, this is either an around about way of admission or a serious error in judgement.

The bottom lien for me in all this is that both sides dont come out of this well, GWPA comes out of it better but marginally so, they to me an outsider look to be on a vindictive campaign, CAP to me an outsider look like Nixon at his most slippery.

For the certified members of both sides this battle between two competing organisation must surely look tawdry and i fear if this continues that both sides will suffer.

Reputations will be seriously harmed, employees may find their jobs at risk if this saga has a detrimental effect on an organisation, memebrs may leave, conferences may be effected and so on, is this what both sides in this really want, is the blood being spilt and the harm being done really worth it.

No doubt pure dislike betwen the sides is immense now but there will be no winners in this if it continues, a third party is without doubt required.

GWPA needs to ask a third party to take over this investigation and in the sense of fair justice make all forums involving this hidden until a final report is released.

CAP needs to answer the questions without playing word games as they clearly have done, if i can see that then the industry insiders surely can.

CAP it appears do have a case to answer and if they have been wrong then sometimes an admission and apology and clear efforts to correct the wrongdoing will be enough, we all make mistakes and if ones repuation is of a certain standing then they will be forgiven.

Its never the crime that gets you its the cover up.

I am sure there is someone that knows both sides and is respected by both sides that can send an email to both parties with an attempt to mediate, get to the bottom of all this, to put out statements that are agreed upon and actions to be taken.

If there is such a person please step up to the plate, fire off the emails before this goes too far and people and their families really start to suffer, i honestly feel that enough damge has been done already.

Ok thats my waffle done, apologises for any mistakes and please no one take offence to my opinions, i am just expressing what i see as an outsider in this sector, yet someone within the industry if that makes sense lol

[mojo]

Hi Robin,

Ok, I see. CM has responded in a new thread since the other was locked. Trying to follow all of this because it gets so confusing and it will never end without transparency.

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...cy.33665.html?

*Poof* The post by CM is gone. This is why things will never get resolved.

[ck8795]

Yes and the almighty professor deleted Roger (Hoursurfings) post asking for his affiliate earnings.

He can deny owning that company all he wants but at the very least when a member of HIS forums posts asking for their money from a program he is obviously involved with...he should not be deleting it. He should be responding as to why that affiliate has not been paid.

So whether you want to get involved in the CS/AS who owns what issue or not...people should at the very least be questioning Lou as to why he refuses to respond to threads made by his own members asking for money owed to them by a program he is running!

by the way gonna throw this out here...but funny how Lou's response to the whole win a trip to CAP with CardSpike was "oh they never told us who won...I guess we'll never know" sorry had to post that cause after today it sounds pretty funny.

[GamTrak]

Hi to all, this is my very first post here on GPWA and if i am honest i was driven to it over this whole sorry saga that seems to be dividing loyalties and slowly but surely having an eroding effect on CAP whether justified or not.

I want to thank you for your post as I don't think many could have said what many of us feel.

[Anthony]

*Poof* The post by CM is gone. This is why things will never get resolved.

So much for open communication and transparency.

[ck8795]

If your talking about the one where he says its a continue from the locked one he wrote it is in the private section. It was move and shows that the post was edited by the prof.. dont know what changes were made if any but the post has been moved

http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.c...360#post195360