Dmoz Fraud and Gaming The System

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

Over the years there's been many forum posts added to the net regarding Dmoz fraud. Many people have stated their disapproval at some category editors who obviously are using their position to game the system and have their websites and that of their buddies listed. But refuse to list other sites which are usually in direct competition with their own sites & their buddies.

Unfortunately the Dmoz gambling categories always seems to be spotlighted into this arena. That of Editors using their position to game the system for their personal & their alliances benefit.

It would certainly seem to be the exact case with the current Editor (webzcas - private GPWA member) who recently has been brought into controversy over adding his and his buddies sites to not one category but two gambling categories within Dmoz.

NB - Only one domain URL is permitted in only one category of Dmoz.

EG - yourdomain.com or yourdomain.com/forum can only be listed in one category. It's against Dmoz AUP to add both these URL's to separate dmoz categories.

However that's exactly what webzcas did with his site onlinecasinoreviewer.com which was listed in dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Guides/, whilst his forum, onlinecasinoreviewer.com/onlinecasinoforum/ was listed in another Dmoz category dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/

It wasn't until a few concerned affiliates over at Affiliate Guard Dog raised these issues that webzcas proceed to removed one of the listing. Unfortunately though it didn't stop there!

http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/for...aud-t2707.html

Instead, he has recently purchased another website, and wouldn't you know it, that site's forum was added within weeks to Dmoz. Where as gambling webmasters who operate sites as good if not better can not get their site listed - even after multiple submissions.

Granted having a Dmoz listing these days may not be as fantastic as it once was. However, the way in which Dmoz is being used does have and makes a huge difference because it's being used to action a Link Wheel alliance.

NB - if you don't know what I link wheel is Google it.

In layman term, webzcas and his buddies link to each others sites. These sites also link directly back to the Dmoz categories which they are listed in. This creates a huge advantage in Google and other SE's that use the Dmoz directory and rank sites accordingly.

Where this becomes a major issue - something all gambling webmaster should be concerned about, and actions the suggestion of Dmoz Fraud, is the inability for other webmasters to gain a link into the Dmoz categories.

It doesn't take a genius to see this just ain't Kosher!

It's certainly not the actions becoming of someone who supposedly takes the high road in our industry and claims to hold integrity. The same goes for everyone else who is using webzcas's position as an Editor at Dmoz to gain favouritism based links and use their manufactured buddy linking system, to game the system to effectively shut to door in other webmasters faces.

I suggest you read through the entire AGD Dmoz thread topic. And if need be take a look at the vocal people in that thread who are taking side with webzcas. Check if their sites are listed in the Dmoz Gambling categories of which webzcas is an editor of. It should become evident that all is not on the up and up and most of these people are only trying to protect their wallets!


Cheers



Dave

[Christoff]

I am not sure of this issue here but webzcas is a highly professional person in my opinion. He is honest, helps plenty of people and a good affiliate when it comes to ethics.

I don't ever think he would do anything intentional to commit fraud - just my opinion.

[Webzcas]

Sigh. To be expected. Usual suspects.

Whatever Dave. Carry on with your negative threads and attacks. I can sleep at night and I know I am an ethical webmaster and editor.

But if attacking others helps you get through the day. Please by all means knock yourself out.

[brean78]

You talk about getting a DMOZ listing as if its similar to finding an untapped oil well. It really has very little effect on rankings stats and traffic. If one of the editors from DMOZ removed the link to my one listed site it would not make a blind bit of difference, I probably wouldn't even notice. This is not saying I don't appreciate the listing, I am just making a point about the real effect DMOZ has.

[arkyt]

It really has very little effect on rankings stats and traffic.

If its a waste of time, why would some of these guys/gals work so hard to game the system? Why all that effort if there is no return or very little? Fact is, its not a waste of time and make no doubt about it, it does produce positive results!

But heck, I guess if alexpratt gave the editor a virtual high five for being a victim here, and Christoff said this is a highly professional person, and you claim all this work to game the system is actually in vain then heck everything must be on the up and up. Heck AGD even gives the new site a home page link so the new site must be worthy and the editor must be doing nothing unethical.

Carry on - business as usual!

[Webzcas]

Heck AGD even gives the new site a home page link so the new site must be worthy and the editor must be doing nothing unethical.

Er Computer Says No!

However it might have something to do with the fact that I or should say my company hosts AGD free of charge and also I might add pay out of my own pocket for the sucuri monitoring service for the site.

You see Brian, unlike yourself and Batman above who started this thread, I don't have a hidden agenda. I like to get on with my peers and also I like to support a service which helps the affiliate community, which is what AGD does.

Andy or AGD pays me no money whatsoever for hosting and hasn't done since I took over hosting the site back in August last year. I will add, I also helped resolve all the issues that the forum was experiencing back then as well, which resulted in migrating the site onto my dedicated server.

No smoke, no mirrors and no hidden agenda. The fact AGD links back to my site might have something to do with being a thank you, for ensuring AGD no longer has any hosting costs to be concerned with. So the site can instead utilise it's resources in furthering it's services to the affiliate community.

Seriously, you and your sidekick Aussie Dave and others like you, would be better off concentrating on working on your sites. Instead of your self pitying woe is me outlook, everyone is bent and has an agenda outlook.

Maybe the fact you two can't hack it as an affiliate webmaster is because you put all your energy into being keyboard warriors, rather than providing a useful informative service to the visitors of your websites.

[arkyt]

Seriously, you and your sidekick Aussie Dave and others like you, would be better off concentrating on working on your sites. Instead of your self pitying woe is me outlook, everyone is bent and has an agenda outlook.

Maybe the fact you two can't hack it as an affiliate webmaster is because you put all your energy into being keyboard warriors, rather than providing a useful informative service to the visitors of your websites.

Yep, you're right again, the both of us who have 20+ years combined in this industry can't hack it as affiliate webmasters! No doubt we might be doing a lot better if it weren't for unethical idiots masquarding around like they are actually doing the industry a favor by monopolizing the dmoz gambling categories with their fraudulent link wheeling scheme!

[Dominique]

This link wheel thing is nonsense. If sites are actually using dmoz to create link wheels they are playing a very dangerous and outdated game.

http://blog.submitera.com/link-wheel-hype-or-truth/

[bonustreak]

I am not sure of this issue here but webzcas is a highly professional person in my opinion. He is honest, helps plenty of people and a good affiliate when it comes to ethics.

I don't ever think he would do anything intentional to commit fraud - just my opinion.

Agreed! This is a damn shame why can't everyone just be friendly and get along with one another I don't understand the purpose if calling out and attacking our peers.

AGD is very grateful for the use of Dave's hosting service there is no hidden agenda for the link exchange also I really do not think it is anyones business who each webmaster decides to trade links with, why would anyone think that is their concern I don't know.

[ck8795]

Yep, you're right again, the both of us who have 20+ years combined in this industry can't hack it as affiliate webmasters! No doubt we might be doing a lot better if it weren't for unethical idiots masquarding around like they are actually doing the industry a favor by monopolizing the dmoz gambling categories with their fraudulent link wheeling scheme!

There are lots of affiliates ranking in the top 10 for a variety of terms that don't have dmoz listing, nor have they had one pointed to their sites. I suppose those rankings have more to do with luck instead work.

I'm really not trying to be rude arkyt but do you see how ridiculous that idea sounds. It's def not the link(s) that will make or break a site.

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

For the record both Dominique and Bonustreak have links in Dmoz. They also have sites which are in the Link Wheel alliance. This can been seen over at onlinecasinoreviewer.com (webzcas's site) where both gamesandcasino.com and streakgaming.com hold home page links. In fact take a stroll over the following Dmoz gambling cats of which webzcas is the editor:
xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Guides/
xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/

And see for yourself who is linking to whom. You'll soon recognise the alliance

I'm all for people voicing their opinions - it makes a good debate. However when people have a vested interest in the outcome because they hold a conflict of interest in the topic, their protests and arguments are nothing more than moot points - attempts to derail and cloud the real issues.

Moving along, to bring people up to speed I've constructed a Link Wheel diagram.



The issue is not about whether webmaster X, Y or Z link to each other or if a group of gambling webmasters have a linking alliance strategy.

It is however about webzcas the Private GPWA member who is also the dmoz editor of the gambling categories:
xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Guides/
xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/

Who is using his position of trust at dmoz to add his sites - regardless if they meet the dmoz AUP and listing criteria or not.

As an editor he's fully aware he should not have had his site onlinecasinoreviewer.com listed in both Games/Gambling/Guides/ and Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/ - it's against dmoz listing rules. However he added them anyway.

He also knows that casinomeister.com should also only hold one dmoz link. But again that site has two URL's listed.

casinomeister.com - xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Guides/
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums - xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/

And at some recent point, the listing descriptions for casinomeister.com have been altered. They've been made more SEO keyword relevant too.

Even though these action are not what I'd call ethical, that's not the grand issue here.

What is, is that gambling webmasters who are not in the webzcas alliance. They have sites which are as good if not better than webzcas and his cronies but they can't get a dmoz listing in the categories to which webzcas is the editor.

This turns the alliance from being a ethical group of gambling webmasters sharing links, to a group of gambling webmaster gaming the system to benefit themselves. With webzcas at the dmoz helm ensuring no one else can gain access to the dmoz categories unless they are part of this alliance, or they present no risk to the alliance's income & or status.

What most people don't realise or maybe have not factored into this issue, Dmoz (ODP) allows and permits any site to access, use and list the dmoz categories. In affect, that produces 1,000 of sites pointing directly back to:

xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Guides/
xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/

That effectively produces a HUGE linking benefit having a site listed in the aforementioned Dmoz categories. Add the Link Wheel alliance to this equation and it doesn't take Einstein to figure out webzcas is unethically using his dmoz editor position to game the system for his and his buddies benefits. All the while rejecting websites which meet dmoz guidelines and should be listed and included in the dmoz gambling categories.

NB - To prove favouritism and webzcas looking after his own financial interests, not long ago, a month or two at most, he purchased xxxhttp://www.casinos-online.co.uk/. Well that site's forum got listed in dmoz. Added in under two (2) weeks I'm led to believe.

However, other webmasters with sites far better can't get listed in two (2) years, hell, they can't get their sites listed period! But here we have webzcas adding his site in two (2) weeks. Yeah his Mr Ethics alright

If speaking up against unethical practices, spot lighting those who use their positions of trust to game the system & monopolise it in effort to protect their financial interests and that of their buddies, and by these actions they disadvantage others, if that's a hidden agenda, then I'll go he!


Cheers



Dave

[arkyt]

This link wheel thing is nonsense.

Yep - you say it and that particular blog site insinuated it, so it must be. Right? Then again all the evidence I have in front of me clearly shows that is exactly whats going on! I'm not guessing, I'm not googling some know nothing blog - I have the evidence in front of my own eyes! Do you?

I'm really not trying to be rude arkyt but do you see how ridiculous that idea sounds.

So the notion that a small group of opportunist would game the dmoz system to improve their rankings and there by directly hurt others is rediculous? I'm not trying to be rude either, but you clearly dont have all the evidence in front of you.

I refuse to be labeled the bad guy here and attacked personally in an attempt to divert attention from the real issues just because I seek a fair and balanced system - across the board.

I'm going to leave this for a day or two and I'll put together some of the data I have access to so then you can at least make a more educated obvservation instead of just taking sides. There are several well known affiliates who are involved in this scheme - they've been doing it for years and until I started hammering on the issue they have gone unnoticed - no more - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - the playing field must be made level!

[ck8795]

So the notion that a small group of opportunist would game the dmoz system to improve their rankings and there by directly hurt others is rediculous? I'm not trying to be rude either, but you clearly dont have all the evidence in front of you.

I refuse to be labeled the bad guy here and attacked personally in an attempt to divert attention from the real issues just because I seek a fair and balanced system - across the board.

I'm going to leave this for a day or two and I'll put together some of the data I have access to so then you can at least make a more educated obvservation instead of just taking sides. There are several well known affiliates who are involved in this scheme - they've been doing it for years and until I started hammering on the issue they have gone unnoticed - no more - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - the playing field must be made level!

arkyt - Im not taking sides - what I'm trying to say is that having a dmoz link does not make or break a site. Sure it's nice to get in, but at the same time I don't think it significantly improves or disproves a site's credibility or rankings. It's not the only link out there. That's all.

[AussieDave]

I'm trying to say is that having a dmoz link does not make or break a site. Sure it's nice to get in, but at the same time I don't think it significantly improves or disproves a site's credibility or rankings. It's not the only link out there.

Hi kaus,

I think you've missed the point. I agree, one link on dmoz is NOT going to push a sites SERPS through the roof.

However, if that site is part of the webzcas alliance, using the Link Wheel and Dmoz categories as I've given example to above, then IT does produce a HUGE advantage and that's why its wrong on so many levels.


Cheers



Dave

[bonustreak]

LOL we link to a lot of people in this business, we have several link exchanges going on with many sites so this wheel thing is silly.

Second we have tried for years to get in DMOZ our site is damn good and we are there for that reason only! If we were removed from DMOZ we would still be damn good, why for our SEO and years of hard work! Anyway I am very very busy but wish you all the best.

[AussieDave]

we link to a lot of people in this business, we have several link exchanges going on with many sites

However your also an active participant of the webzcas alliance - something you've failed to mention. Whether your genuinely aware of its intended purpose or not, your site(s) are benefiting from the unethical and monopolised dmoz/link wheel alliance.


Cheers



Dave

[davenewgates]

Aussiedave, the link wheel you've made made it a lot more easy to see what you are trying to point out. So many links to dmoz, are there any other worthy sites?

[AussieDave]

Aussiedave, the link wheel you've made made it a lot more easy to see what you are trying to point out.

What I didn't add - would have made a bit confusing...Each site in the Link Wheel (represented by the orange circles) links to multiple sites within the alliance wheel. All these sites are listed within the Dmoz gambling categories of which webzcas is the editor.

That's where the linking power of this alliance kicks in.

With webzcas being the editor of the dmoz cats, with his ability to add his and buddies sites to dmoz and use these sites in the link wheel, whilst rejecting other sites which jeopardise the alliance's income & or status, that's exactly why this practice is highly unethical and down right dodgy.

Edit: Any webmaster who has submitted their site(s) to the dmoz cats since webzcas has been an editor of that category and has not been listed, even though their site has meet the dmoz listing guidelines, it's on the cards you've been knocked back because your site presents a risk to the alliance.

How many of you can honestly say you've not scratched your head wondering why your site was not listed?
I dare say a lot of you, considering the number of people who have posted about this issue in the past.

You can now all thank webzcas for discriminating against your dmoz submission(s) and all the other cronies taking part in this link wheel alliance scheme.



Cheers



Dave

[Amateur]

Dave, you are well aware these are very serious charges, but not to be taken lightly.

Looking at the listings for the category you've posted, I see the following list of sites:

4 Online Gambling - Game rules, strategies playing tips and a gambling quotes page.
A-Z of Online Casinos - Enables filtering of online casinos based on differing criteria. Features concise reviews, withdrawal information, jurisdiction and the facility for players to add their own notes.
Betastic - Providing reviews, news articles, game guides and odds comparisons covering a multitude of sporting events.
BettingCorp.com - Providing game strategy guides, information on casino software and regularly updated news articles.
Casino Advisor - Provides online casino reviews, a beginners' guide, rules and strategy articles, and free games. Also offers news and a player forum.
Casino Checker - Guide and directory of over 6000 online and land based casinos. Also features articles on games, reviews and a knowledge base.
Casino Choice - Provides reviews of casinos focussing on the UK Market. Also features game videos, beginners guide and casino holidays.
Casino City - International directory of casinos and industry businesses as well as site reviews, strategy articles, information on skill games, gaming software, and news.
Casino Games Pro - Learning center featuring resources on blackjack, roulette and video poker. Also includes reviews of casinos and game guide.
Casino Launchpad - Offering reviews, news and casino related articles that are up to date and recent. Also features information on software, games and a beginners guide.
Casino People - Offers reviews, news articles, game guides, a tips section and a forum for players.
Casino-Jackpot.com - Game strategies, reviews, news and articles on game rules. Also provides free games.
Casinomeister - Self-described online casino watchdog, maintains lists of sites meeting ethical criteria and rogue sites. Also advice, news, and a forum for complaints and other gambling discussion.
Casinos-Online.co.uk - Features casino reviews, news articles, information on software providers, banking, licensing jurisdictions and also game guides.
Fortune Palace - Providing lessons for various casino table games such as sic bo and baccarat. Also provides reviews of casinos, games and information on betting systems.
Gambling Choice - Features reviews, news articles and strategy guides to a variety of games.
Gambling Gazette - Provides information on tournaments, individual games, reviews and also includes a forum for players.
Gambling Grumbles - Provides mediation and dispute resolution services for players at online casinos. Includes reports, casino blacklist and search facility.
Gambling Info - Provides information on land based casinos, including casino management, gaming control and a guide to several resorts. Also contains information and guides pertaining to online casinos, including games available, banking, security and various news articles. A forum is also featured.
Gambling.com - Offers information and strategy articles on a wide range of games. Also includes news and a directory of online casinos.
Games and Casino - Extensive online bingo and casino games resource.
Guide To Online Casino Gambling - Providing articles on games, software, responsible gambling and payment methods available to players. Also includes reviews of casinos.
Jackpot Finder - Casino directory, featuring game guides, reviews and news articles.
Jackpot.co.uk - Providing reviews of online casinos, articles on software, games, payment processors and gambling regulation. Also features regularly updated news.
Online Casino Expert - Articles and guide to a variety of games including keno, blackjack, video poker, roulette, craps and poker. Also includes news and reviews.
Online Casino Sniper - Provides game guides, software information and casino reviews. Also provides information on casino bonuses and wagering requirements.
Online Casino Tips - Rules, strategies and tips for various games.
Online Gambling Paper - Offers reviews of casinos, news articles and a guide to games available to play.
Online-Casinos.com - Offers reviews of online casinos with independent comments as well as news articles, free casino game trainers and guides and advice on several games.
OnlineCasino.com - Reviews, bonus information and payout guides. Also includes strategy articles, banking information, software reviews and information on free games available to play.
OnlineCasinos.org - Articles on game strategy and information on software providers. Also includes news articles, a regulary updated blog and a forum for visitors to the site.
Optimal Gambling - Gambling rules and strategies, payment services, watchdogs, and legislation summaries.
Qwerty Casino - Providing reviews of online casinos from a players perspective. Also features a forum, news articles, games guide and a regularly updated blog.
Ready Bet Go - Information on games such as slots, roulette, blackjack and video poker. Casino and software reviews. Also includes news articles.
Reviewed Casinos - Offers reviews, ranking database, news articles, casino directory and a guide to various casino games.
Smart Gambler - Advice on how to exercise greater skill and intelligence in gambling activities.
The Good Gambling Guide - Information and professional advice on gambling and risk taking as well as books and films.
UK-Casino-Games.co.uk - Site reviews casinos targetting the UK market. Also includes beginners guide, tips section and news articles.
Wizard of Odds - Providing statistical analysis of casino games. Also featuring news articles, reviews, a blog and gaming industry news.

Are you saying that all of these sites are within the link wheel? Do you know which of these webmasters are GPWA members.

If you making an accusation. let's get all the facts out on the table, and take a careful look so that we are all clear about what you are talking about.

[AussieDave]

Looking at the listings for the category you've posted, I see the following list of sites:

You list is only one of the categories: - xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Guides/

The other category is: - xxxhttp://www.dmoz.org/Games/Gambling/Chats_and_Forums/

• 777CasinoForum.com - Community for players to discuss all aspects of gambling online. Features dedicated forums for a variety of casinos.
• Affiliate Guard Dog - Discussion forum focusing on casino affiliate programs.
• All Free Chips - Community for players to discuss casino and poker related topics and issues.
• Bingo Chatter - Community for players to discuss bingo. Provides forums for contests, news and other forms of gambling.
• Bonus Paradise - Discussion on online gambling with dedicated forums to discuss the latest bonuses available. Also includes contests and promotions.
• Casino Affiliate Programs - Community and discussion forum for casino affiliates and affiliate programs.
• Casino Jacks - Forum focusing on casinos, poker and sports with discussions on each of these areas. Also has a tips section.
• Casinomeister - Gambling discussion forum providing information on casino industry and player issues. Also features a player complaints resolution service.
• Classic Casinos - Discussion forum for players covering online casinos and online poker rooms. Also features a bingo, sports and a free for all section.
• Gamblers Go Wild - Community focusing on competitions and general casino related discussions.
• Gambling Industry Association - Community for affiliates and program managers.
• Gambling Portal Webmasters Association - Forum community for casino webmaster affiliates and affiliate program managers.
• Gambling.co.uk - Message board for players to discuss casino games, poker and gambling related topics.
• Gamingfloor - Discussions of casino industry operations topics.
• Ixgames - Discussion forum focussing on sports betting, poker and casino games.
• No Deposit Needed - Community to discuss all aspects of online casinos and poker rooms. Features individual forums for the casinos listed on the site.
• No Luck Needed - Forum primarily discussing casino no deposit bonuses on offer. Also features bingo and poker sections as well as competitions.
• Online Blackjack Guide - Forum focusing on blackjack as well as other casino games such as poker, bingo and slots.
• Streak Gaming - Message board featuring competitions and discussions concerning online casinos.
• The Blue Lizard Lounge Forum - Chat with online gamblers, join in special contests and poker freerolls for members only.
• The Complete Vegas Site - Forum focussed on Las Vegas. Providing information on hotels, casinos and gambling in Vegas.
• The Hodgepodge Gambling Forum - Gambling forum concentrating on all aspects of gambling online. Covering poker, casinos and sportsbook betting.
• Wass Online - Casino and poker community for players to discuss all aspects of playing online.

Cheers



Dave