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  1. #1
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Default ebay sends affiliates to prison

    A pretty interesting article and no doubt that this type of thing is happening within the gaming industry. How could it not. Check it out

    xhttp://www.businessinsider.com/ebay-the-fbi-shawn-hogan-and-brian-dunning-2013-4?op=1

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  3. #2
    baldidiot is offline Private Member
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    My wife knows one of those guys from when she was at uni - random!
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    baldidiot.net - Baldys affiliate blog. Will get updated one day. Maybe.

  4. #3
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    universal4 is offline Forum Administrator
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    This is a good lesson in why (in my opinion) that cookies should be over-writable.

    This is also a good lesson in why cookie stuffing is bad for both sides.

    Rick
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    If an affiliate program is not small affiliate friendly (especially small US Affiliate), then they are NOT Affiliate Friendly!

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  6. #4
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    As i was a little boy...

    My mother always told me: Never trust a man with no hair and dark glasses.
    She was right again.

    Leopold

  7. #5
    Anthony's Avatar
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    Default

    That is some story.

    I also prefer the last cookie counting.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
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  8. #6
    p.arena is offline Former AM
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    Interesting story!

    Seems strange that he claims ebay encouraged him to continue the practice, even after finding out what he was doing.

    Why would they want to pay him revenue for coincidental sales that they would have gotten anyway?

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by p.arena View Post
    Interesting story!

    Seems strange that he claims ebay encouraged him to continue the practice, even after finding out what he was doing.

    Why would they want to pay him revenue for coincidental sales that they would have gotten anyway?
    Probably because once they go to jail ebay doesn't have to pay anything anymore..
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  11. #8
    UKCasinoOnline is offline Private Member
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    Am I the only one whose unable to view the original article?
    UK Casino Online - Seven of the best casinos, Game Guides and Slots reviews

  12. #9
    AceOdds is offline Private Member
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    The affiliate managers probably didn't realise exactly what he was up to and their incentives were likely set up to encourage affiliate traffic with a disregard for where it can from.

    It could also be a case of departments in a large company not talking to one another.
    https://www.signupbonuses.co.uk: New customer bonuses for casino, poker, sport and bingo sites.
    https://www.aceodds.com: Bet calculator for working out accumulator winnings, lucky 15 bets and more. Also try the android app.

  13. #10
    F-L-C is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKCasinoOnline View Post
    Am I the only one whose unable to view the original article?
    It appears after a few minutes, I had to be patient

  14. #11
    Anthony-Coral is offline Former Employee of Coral
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renee View Post
    Probably because once they go to jail ebay doesn't have to pay anything anymore..
    "...eBay pays about $70 million annually to its 26,000 affiliate marketers, according to court papers. The average payment is around $2,700 a year. Remove Hogan and Dunning from the equation Hogan alone was 15% of eBay's total payout and the average payment drops even lower..."

    that quote is very telling

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    Watch now eBay's revenue boost by a lot. The article stated that he was ready to bail out, so that's why they encouraged him to keep sending. They knew they are going to pay commission, but after the case they are going to get everything back, plus all of his buyers, plus him being gone to jail.

    It's guys like these that bring distrust in the relationships between affiliates and companies!
    Gambipedia.com - casino, poker, sports betting guides, reviews & bonuses.

  17. #13
    LukeC is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    This is a good lesson in why (in my opinion) that cookies should be over-writable.

    This is also a good lesson in why cookie stuffing is bad for both sides.

    Rick
    Universal4
    Ebay cookies are overwritable. If they cookie stuff they overwrite other affiliates cookies and also get extra sales from what would otherwise be direct traffic.

    That article is also very one-sided against Digital Point. I'd never encourage cookie stuffing, but Hogan alleges that Ebay's affiliate managers were encouraging him to do so (see Hogan's blog), which isn't covered at all in that article. I'd be very surprised if at least some people within Ebay didn't realise that something was amiss very early on, as it isn't particularly difficult to spot when something dodgy is going on, especially when someone is operating at that scale. Hogan sending so much traffic makes the affiliate manager look great though...
    Head of Affiliates at Digital Fuel

  18. #14
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Last Cookie is probably best for Affiliates as universal has pointed out. If it is happening with Ebay affiliates , i hate to think of what is happening in our industry. Did the GPWA do a poll of affiliate companies and what they did with their cookies ? I am sure i saw that a while back.

    On top of everything else that needs to be watched , there is a cookie situation as well I might want to revisit that article and amend some of the partners i am promoting based on their cookie policy.

  19. #15
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    I trust it works the other way around when operators defraud affiliates? No I didn't think so.

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  21. #16
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    A few programs have addressed cookie stuffing.

    I agree that an over-writeable cookie can still be stuffed, but it doesn't make it right and still is evidence that they should be over-writeable and shows why it might be important for the programs to cover it in their policies.

    Yes Hodgey, those numbers are VERY telling, especially if you consider how hard affiliates work to make so very little and that the vast majority of affiliates fall into the "small affiliate" category and how important it is for the terms of service of ANY affiliate program be "small affiliate friendly".

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  22. #17
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    i cannot believe that they were arrested for cookie stuffing. I know its a violation of terms of services for sites, but jail! There seems to be a bit of envy regarding there lifestyles. @universal4, I have a question and suggestion for a poll. Can the forum do an anonymous poll for the average net monthly revenue an affiliate earns?
    Last edited by edgarf76; 8 May 2013 at 10:58 pm. Reason: additional question

  23. #18
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    i cannot believe that they were arrested for cookie stuffing. I know its a violation of terms of services for sites, but jail! There seems to be a bit of envy regarding there lifestyles. @universal4, I have a question and suggestion for a poll. Can the forum do an anonymous poll for the average net monthly revenue an affiliate earns?
    This is not about lifestyle - this is about earning from traffic by a very devious method, i consider it to be theft and fraudulent behaviour. I guess the FBI and Ebay ( who are making the most of the situation ) seem to think this is worth looking at as well.

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  25. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    A pretty interesting article and no doubt that this type of thing is happening within the gaming industry. How could it not. Check it out

    xhttp://www.businessinsider.com/ebay-the-fbi-shawn-hogan-and-brian-dunning-2013-4?op=1
    As i know, this is owner of Digital Point forum. And as i know this is old story
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawn_Hogan

    Quote Originally Posted by edgarf76 View Post
    i cannot believe that they were arrested for cookie stuffing. I know its a violation of terms of services for sites, but jail!
    They don't arrested for "cookie stuffing". "cookie stuffing" - this is not a crime. They arrested, because they stolen ebay money.
    "Cookie stuffing" - in this case - this is "modus operandi".
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 9 May 2013 at 6:09 am.

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    Simmo! is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    They don't arrested for "cookie stuffing". "cookie stuffing" - this is not a crime. They arrested, because they stolen ebay money. "
    Absolutely right IMO. The illegal bit is breaking Ebay's TOS, not the actual cookie stuffing itself. We have a cross-over area in this industry: free games. Many of the games that affiliates embed set tracking cookies but this falls within the program's terms of service because they supply the game to the affiliate. You can debate if that method is right or wrong of course but irrespective of the pros and cons, it is done with permission of the people paying you the commission.

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