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  1. #1
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    Default Ended my partnership with Pinnacle Affiliates - they stole $3k in commission

    I've been working with Pinnacle since forever, and haven't really bothered to check the stats lately. It turned out the net revenue was $9,879.79 in 2018 and for that I got a grand total of $161.80 in commission. In November, net revenue was $2,424.10 and I earned $0 in commission because they have a quota I didn't meet.

    If you referred less than 5 new depositors in a trimester, you're automatically put on 0% rev share. And it doesn't work retroactively either, so if I had 5 players in November and they generated $2k net revenue, I'd still get nothing as the new rev share percentage would apply from December.

    I contacted them (Irene Zwols) to demand a permanent 30% revenue share and a permanent removal of the quota for 2019, as well as compensation for the discrepancy between their earnings and my earnings in 2018.

    The response by this chatbot person was that I should just simply refer 3 more players to get back to 25% rev share in January, and that my volume and number of wagering players is "just too low for me to make an exception for you". Duh. Can't you tell that to everyone who didn't meet the quota?

    I have referred hundreds of players to them over the years and for almost a decade now I have them listed on the website as the bookmaker for big players. Now I pulled the plug and told them I consider our partnership terminated. Tomorrow I'll change the reviews of Pinnacle sportsbook & casino to advise people not to deposit there (yes, out of spite), and will redirect the Pinnacle affiliate link to some other bookmaker. I'm #2 on Croatian Google for "Pinnacle sportsbook". I'll make an effort to go back to #1, but with a negative review.

    I'm not expecting affiliates to do something to show support such as removing their banners or something, but I am expecting those people who have reviews of the Pinnacle Affiliates program to mark them as predatory. This quota of theirs is designed to steal players. If I was on 30% rev share, which was the case for years, I'd make around $3k this year give or take, so that's the amount they stole from me. They'll steal much more as these players will continue to play in 2019.

    In the following days I'll be contacting the guys who review affiliate programs with my complaint.
    Last edited by DanHorvat; 3 December 2018 at 2:32 pm.

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  3. #2
    MJM
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    They have had this policy forever, including when you signed up. Personally i think it makes affiliates look bad when you blacklist a program or advise players not to signup there for reasons like this - I support redirecting to another brand however, or letting them know you don't endorse them anymore for business reasons, or actually finding reasons why players shouldn't play there - but not just because you were unaware of their policies (which are not new). If they are still a great book for players, don't slander/lie/libel them. Just remove them and be done with it, I wanted to work with them for similar reasons years ago but they don't allow affiliates who live in the United States - not much you can do but shrug your shoulders and move on.

    I have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth right now for defending them, I've been thinking about this a lot lately - affiliates need to be responsible and ethical now more than ever.

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  5. #3
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    The email in which they're notifying me of the 5 player quota is from 1 June 2018, mate. For many years I was on 30% revenue share.

    You can see the residual text they forgot to remove here:
    https://www.pinnacle.com/affiliates/...sion-structure
    (Key Benefits: No minimum earnings or new player quotas)

    And this is a version of that page from 6 Jul 2017, where there's no mention of reduction to 0% rev share:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20170706...sion-structure

    They used to have that reduction to volume share deal, which was also a new thing at the time, but my revenue share was made permanent, 30%, until these changes came around.

    They change terms as they will, they have negative carryover, they have quotas, they pay into player account. They're a good sportsbook that's fueled by a predatory affiliate program.

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  7. #4
    MJM
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    They have negative carryover, they have quotas, they pay into player account. They're a good sportsbook that's fueled by a predatory affiliate program.
    Sorry my rant was a bit more general, forgive me for my ignorance as it's a brand Ive ignored for years. Most reputable books will have neg carryover and quotas these days.

    I was just broadly commenting on giving some though to how we treat brands when they pull these moves on us, and how we handle their removal/ceasing of promotions. Just something on my mind lately as we see this more and more - obviously it's a challenge with keeping existing traffic/rankings (not removing the page outright) and not giving them free business after they make that move on you. Good luck figuring it out.

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    No offense taken, I was just explaining the terms for you and everyone else, to show it's something they introduced in June.

    I don't have quotas at reputable programs I work with, and I didn't have them at Pinnacle before 1 June 2018. By the way, Unibet closed my affiliate account last month and I have been working with them since forever too. Gave them hundreds of players.

    So how do you suggest we handle these situations? Is it ethical to just let it go? I think it's only fair to give someone a bad reputation after they have tried to use you as a free promotional tool. If they rely on us to give them a good name and bring them players, then we also have the power to give them a bad name and to stop sending them players.

    Anyway it feels better to terminate a bad deal than to keep it going. I'm actually thinking about giving one brand - the only good one - all advertising positions. All. Even on other brands reviews.

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    Yes, the current commission structure went live in June'2018. I was on the ex-volume commission up to then (blatant robbery but still something), now I'm on 0% because the new requirements 5 NDP per previous quarter. I've referred 133 depositing players for the time being. Since June'2018 the sportsbook revenue is 36,560 USD from my players and my commission for the period is 0.000000. I've talked a number of times with Irene and get the same stuff as you... I'm done with Pinnacle as well. Sadly nothing can change, they care only about a bunch of "strategical" huge partners and for the rest whoever they can fool to keep promoting them for free...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik0 View Post
    've referred 133 depositing players for the time being. Since June'2018 the sportsbook revenue is 36,560 USD from my players and my commission for the period is 0.000000.
    Holy ****.

    I think it's official - they went rogue. And on the other hand they're bragging with their new Malta licence, like a prostitute that gets married.

    In any case, it's better to not be a fool who promotes them for free.

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    Sportsbet.com.au pulled a retroactive quota a few years back. Didn't hurt their Super Affiliates, but a lot of smaller affiliates (they basically make up the majority of a program) and who were with them from day 1, got screwed.

    Back to the shafting at hand...

    Pinnacle, for literally untold years you never heard a bad word about them, least I never saw one. Same as 32Red (TTR Partners), least until they did that UK player deal with GoWild. Seems there not too many programs/casino/sportsbooks etc, who don't eventual turn to the dark-side.
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    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJM View Post
    Personally i think it makes affiliates look bad when you blacklist a program or advise players not to signup there for reasons like this.
    Don't agree. If a program rips off or is unethical with affiliates, that is grounds not to trust that program - and lack of trust in a program is grounds to turn your review very negative.

    Are you really going to sing the praises of pinnacle after reading this thread? That would be unethical.

    "Slander / libel" does not exist if what you state is true. "Great book for players" - I'd truly like to see one of those. It is just a matter of degree from bad books to, at the top of the tree, not so bad books.

    Tbh I think you have everything back to front. Affiliates do what they do for money, let's not kid ourselves here. If affiliates actually told the truth nine out of every 10 bookmaker reviews would be negative.

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    Pinnacle is still number one for players (I bet there myself) but ripping off affiliates. Totally the opposite of 1xbet for example who are ripping off players but number one for affiliates. Bookies simply choose one of the sides to take the egde. No wonder affiliates have to do the same. It is business in the roots....

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  21. #11
    MJM
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    Don't agree. If a program rips off or is unethical with affiliates, that is grounds not to trust that program - and lack of trust in a program is grounds to turn your review very negative.

    Are you really going to sing the praises of pinnacle after reading this thread? That would be unethical.

    "Slander / libel" does not exist if what you state is true. "Great book for players" - I'd truly like to see one of those. It is just a matter of degree from bad books to, at the top of the tree, not so bad books.

    Tbh I think you have everything back to front. Affiliates do what they do for money, let's not kid ourselves here. If affiliates actually told the truth nine out of every 10 bookmaker reviews would be negative.
    I get what you are saying and agree with most of it, it's just inaccurate that I'm saying you should sing their praises or promote them. If they screw you over, and you keep a review page up - it's fair to let the world know what they did to you. I've done it, and will do it again. It's borderline to suggest they "steal" or something like that is all I'm saying.

  22. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    If affiliates actually told the truth nine out of every 10 bookmaker reviews would be negative.
    Why waste time creating and posting a negative review for a group you don't recommend?
    Good affiliates just wouldn't bother to work with 9 out of 10 bookmakers.

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  24. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    I've been working with Pinnacle since forever, and haven't really bothered to check the stats lately. It turned out the net revenue was $9,879.79 in 2018 and for that I got a grand total of $161.80 in commission. In November, net revenue was $2,424.10 and I earned $0 in commission because they have a quota I didn't meet.
    I am not the big specialist in sports betting. But may be you look here. https://www.asianconnect88.com/servi...liate-program/

    This is AsianConnect88 affiliate program. AsianConnect is Pinnacle (Pinnacle88 ) betting agent, that accept deposits for Pinnacle via Curacao license. They rate 0.125% for Pinnacle (Turnover). Check your turnover and calculate. May be this is better for you? They promice "No minimum earnings to qualify"

    As i know, asianconnect88 is agent with very good reputation. Try to talk with them, may be they help you with you affiliate account if you start sending traffic via asianconnect88. They must have strong contact with Pinnacle owners.

    Any problem must have solution. Irene Zwols - i think is only hiring manager. I don't think that they take care about brand reputation. You must try to contact with someone else from Pinnacle.
    Last edited by Moonlight Cat; 3 December 2018 at 11:45 pm.

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    I just don't understand how the bigger programs even dare to change the terms retroactively.
    I fully understand that they want to reward affiliates which are still active, and in my opinion NDP quotas make sense. But if they introduce them, then not
    retroactively, because that's against a deal that was closed. I'd say it's ok to change the terms forward-looking, but not for the players that were referred in the past under the old deal.

    But unfortunately, that's something we have to accept unless we want to spend time, money and energy on a lawsuit.

    So what can you do?
    From a business point of view, it could make sense for you to promote them more agressively, at least until you meet their quota. If you must bring them 15 players per year, that's like an additional CPA of 200 Eur per player you'd get.
    I know that's against your feelings (and it would be against mine as well in your situation), but financially it could make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1973 View Post
    From a business point of view, it could make sense for you to promote them more agressively, at least until you meet their quota.
    Man, that's just delaying the inevitable. In the end you'll still get reduced to 0% commission at some point, and will have e.g. $100,000 net revenue that month. If you keep sending depositors to a program with a quota, you're just preparing yourself for a bigger failure in the future.

    The purpose of this quota is precisely to steal players from long-time affiliates such as myself that generate revenue yet don't bring many new players anymore.

    And let's not forget that in the future a different quota may be introduced, or your account may just be closed if they choose to do that. If a brand forms a habit of introducing one-sided terms retroactively, no good can come out of that. It can only get worse for the affiliate, not better.

    Businesswise, it's best to walk away while the damage is still small, $3k, than to push the partnership to the point where the damage will be $30k.

    They say they don't care about small affiliates enough to remove the quota. Like, you're small fry. Well obviously they do care a lot, otherwise they wouldn't be stealing these commissions. They care a lot. So if you take it away from them they will suffer, even though they make it seem like you're just too small to talk to and your volume is small anyway. There is a certain degree of power in pulling the plug on them. More than you think.

    Edit: I just realized my signature is the solution to this problem. To avoid theft, stop working with thieves.

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    They stole 5 figures from me as well from summer. I complained in October. They said me roughly the same, but they said, since you have now the 5 players, you will get the commission next month. Next month came, record revenue ofc in October. But they gave me 0 again, telling that actually the commission is counted from the next month after.

    So example: you have zero new players for many months. Then you refer 1000 NDP in next month and they make revenue 10,000,000 in the same month. You will get zero.

    I wrote her email to eat her own sh1t, but I have it in drafts. It is just our business, our world. Nothing new. I do not care. Their problem not mine, really. I am expecting more of sh1tstorm from 1st January 2019 from other affiliates
    There is no upper age limit but people over 60 years old are not recommended to trade bitcoin in consideration of price volatility and risk tolerance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    Tbh I think you have everything back to front. Affiliates do what they do for money, let's not kid ourselves here. If affiliates actually told the truth nine out of every 10 bookmaker reviews would be negative.
    In the past was strong correlation between good programs and good bookies. Bet365 (closed now affiliates), Unibet (affiliate is getting worse), Pinnacle was outstanding for years, 5dimes (killed owner so who knows), Bovada (still ok for players and affiliates).

    But future is definitely 1xbet model (horrible book and excellent affiliates) or Bwin (ok book, bad affiliates) or 10bet (horrible book and affiliates).
    There is no upper age limit but people over 60 years old are not recommended to trade bitcoin in consideration of price volatility and risk tolerance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    Man, that's just delaying the inevitable. In the end you'll still get reduced to 0% commission at some point, and will have e.g. $100,000 net revenue that month. If you keep sending depositors to a program with a quota, you're just preparing yourself for a bigger failure in the future.
    If you get to 100k net revenue you'll just buy a website for 25k and then you'll generate your 5 FTD easily and pocket 25k per month forward looking without much effort.

    It's your decision of course, I just wanted to point out that there are other options to just throw away all those players you gained in the past years.

    And again, I fully understand if programs have activity quotas. Otherwise they end up paying without getting something in return. It's just NOT OK to introduce them retroactively.



    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    And let's not forget that in the future a different quota may be introduced, or your account may just be closed if they choose to do that. If a brand forms a habit of introducing one-sided terms retroactively, no good can come out of that. It can only get worse for the affiliate, not better.
    Yes, that's a bad sign. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee that another program will treat you fairly.

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    If you make 100k you will probably not buy a website. 1. buying/selling sites is full of scam 2. if you make decent money you have no time to do this **** all over again. My players make it almost. I do not bother.

    I can easily get the 5 signups with those idiots. I did it in October. They came with other ****. If you are trapped in this you can find yourself not making anything soon.

    Please do not forget my other thread: Pinancle tracking was NOT WORKING for many months. I sent them tens of emails. If the tracking worked, I would have the 5 NDP each month. But if tracking is ****** up, then it was impossible. They fially admitted the IA problem few weeks ago and fixed it. The problem was the few months when it was impossible to get the signups.

    You take as granted that if the program comes with the quota, you can just throw away more money to fill it in and everything will be ok. It is not always correct. If program makes this it means they will die soon. It all depends on other factors. For example how valuable are geos of that market. Core market of Pinnacle is still Canada and Scandinavia, those markets are not dead. Giving them extra players makes less sense then.
    There is no upper age limit but people over 60 years old are not recommended to trade bitcoin in consideration of price volatility and risk tolerance.

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    It almost makes sense to hire at min. 5 people a month to sign up and deposit and play to ensure that you get paid...free bankroll contests etc

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