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  1. #1
    Puma's Avatar
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    Default Exactly what is a Chargeback and what does it mean for affiliates?

    Welcome to the official chargeback thread.


    Because of the ongoing confussion regarding credit card chargebacks Ive decided to do a little homework. Now the homework is not all done but this would be a good thread for any affiliate old or new to read. Ive taken these bits of information from around the net, so if I got it from your site, forgive me for the greater good.

    WHAT IS A CHARGEBACK?

    A chargeback is the reversal of a previous sales transaction on a person's credit card. This is usually the result of the cardholder or card issuer disputing the charge posted to their account. Chargebacks usually occurs after the disputed charges have been investigated and is found in favor of the cardholder or card issuer.
    WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON WAYS A CHARGEBACK HAPPENS?


    • Charges you do not recognize that appears on your credit card statement
    • Being charged for something you did not receive
    • Being charged multiple times for the same purchase
    • An incorrect account number being captured, resulting in a transaction being posted to the wrong account
    • A transaction being charged for an incorrect amount
  2. DID YOU KNOW?

    For a chargeback to occura credit card company must do an investigation as to why the chargback is being requested. A gambler cannot simply say he/she didnt make the purchase or else we would all be doing it.

    WHAT CASINOS SHOULD BE DOING THAT THEY ARE NOT

    Online casinos are famous for calling people bonus abusers when it suites their needs. This is not just a random statement. Any affiliate or player knows its been going on for years. Not only does this hurt the industry but it also hurts affiliates. Why are casinos not putting players who decide to do a chargeback ( which is clearly fraud ) on a blacklist. That would be an excellent way to limit the number of times a fraud type player plays at online casinos.

    WHERE IS THE PROOF?

    When a cashback occurs, do you ask about it to your casino affiliate rep? As affiliates should we just take affiliate programs on their word? I would say no. This is because we have found too many programs that have been caught cheating affiliates out of earnings or at the very least having incorect stats. How can an affiliate get proof of a chargeback without recieving private information on the player? Ask for the issuing credit cards comapny name or telephone number. Thats not a violation or privacy is it? After recieving this information do some research. Talk to the credit card comapany by email or phone and ask them exactly what their policy is regarding Chargbacks.

    HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR A CHARGEBACK TO BE APPROVED?

    I talked to three banks this week regarding chargebacks and I was told by each one of them that a chargeback can occur but only after approx 14 days and only after they have contacted the side which is being accused of wrong doing. Do casinos not prove that a deposit was recieved and played? I mean a casino has all your private information when you sign up. Surley they can provide proof to any bank or credit card company that is issuing a chargeback.

    AS AN AFFILIATE

    As an affiliate I suggest watching certain programs. programs with continuos chargebacks should be dropped. They obviously do not have secure enough sytems to prevent chargebacks from happening if its really happening at all.
    Make sure you do your own homework. if you run a forum, talk to your members, find out when they deposited and figure out who made a chargeback if possible. Run contests with people requireing they provide their account number in order to win ( most forums do this ) and when a chargeback occurs ask your affiliate program for the players account id. Match it up ect. Im sure if we all work together at GPWA we can solve the ongoing issue of Chargeback and reduce losses in our earnings.

    Cheers & Thank you.

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    Fergie (26 February 2008), louie.wilson (16 January 2014), ntaus (23 February 2008), webanalysissolutions (14 January 2014), Ziggy (28 February 2008)

  • #2
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    Good post Cris,

    Just to add to your info on chargebacks. Although there are rules regarding the time lines for having a chargeback or (counter charge). Each bank handles them differently. Here in Costa Rica, one bank I knew would allow you to make a charge back up to 8 months after your original charge. From what I understand, most of the charge backs appear before the third month of the charges (statistically). Most credit card companies will dump your merchant account if you come close to 5% charge backs. That's why most companies will accept the charges, take a loss and move on to avoid risking losing their account.

    I don't do a lot of volume, but I've had ZERO charge backs so far.

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    Renee (15 December 2010)

  • #3
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    I hardly ever get chargebacks. I can't recall the last time I did. However! I got one last month. I inquired on it. Turned out it wasn't my chargeback at all and it was reversed in my affiliate account.

    I think puma has a good point here. Where is the transparency for affiliates on these chargebacks?

    My advice is to always question a chargeback for further clarification with your affiliate manager.

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    Excellent post Chris. Thanks!

    I have to agree with mojo, I fortunately don't encounter chargebacks too often.

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    Henrik - GNUF is offline Public Member
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    Hi guys,

    From a operators point of view I can say that if a person claims a charge back on a deposit they more often then not get blocked from the site afterwards.

    BUT it also depends on some other factors, how many deposits have the client made, the size of the chargeback etc. I think we are all interested in avoiding chargebacks and that is why most of the e-wallets are a preferred payment method.

    Cheers
    Henrik

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    Renee (26 February 2008)

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    I see not too many affiliate managers decided to respond to this thread. Its a shame because it would be great if they could answer a few of the questions listed like how they could prove the cashback actually exsist.

    PS It was very cool of you guys (GPWA ) to feature this in your newsletter. Thanks !!

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    Ziggy is offline Private Member
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    Indeed, very well to point this out. I have not experienced any (probably due to low volume); but one has to remain vigilant on stats.

    A tad off topic, but one time I noticed $25.00 missing from my earnings at a program. When I question the Aff. Mgr., he told me he transferred it to a high roller that I had had with the hopes of the player returning.

    I thought it very odd he took my funds to do this without telling me beforehand, but it worked - the High Roller returned and I made much more than the $25 - but still thought it was not normal.

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    Ziggy - that is totally weird and nothing that I've ever heard of before - rather presumptuous IMO.

    I hope this isn't off-thread - we seem to have moved to mystery charges. Please move it if it is...

    For the last couple of months, I've had 'carry-over' negative amounts at Best. They are a mystery to me - no idea what a carry-over is. They are both under $100 but it's the principle of the thing.

    I would ask them but they've never established a presence in their forum and are not good at responding to mails.

    ntaus

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    I can speak on behalf of thisisvegas and most Rival casinos as well.

    For chargebacks we do our best to avoid this type of behaviour whenever we can identify it. It is obviously easier said than done but I know this typically happens for players who use their credit cards. For all cashins we require fax back forms along with ID but we also make them initial every deposit as well. I have had some players complain that they think we are going overboard and other programs don't do the same but there is too much at stake to not do this. On my end I have seen chargebacks and I do personally monitor player accounts when I see unusual activity. Since most of my promos and the Rival backend doesn't suit bonus abusers well or players who would try a chargeback they are banned across all Rival casinos.
    I know some players don't like hearing this but I think the casinos should do their part to stamp this behaviour out. I mean if an affiliate refers a player who does a chargeback, not only is the casino losing money but it hurts the affiliate as well and sometimes the affiliate might question if the chargeback was real or not. I know since Rival first launched I know thisisvegas got hit for amounts I don't disclose but we learned our lesson very quickly and I think the Rival system truly cuts this down to a minimum. I am glad I don't have to worry about it as much but I hate to hear anyone having to deal with such a thing.

    John

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  • #10
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    but we also make them initial every deposit as well. I have had some players complain that they think we are going overboard and other programs don't do the same but there is too much at stake to not do this.
    Oh boy am I glad to see this brought up. I am a player as well as an affiliate. I must say this is extreme. What do you accomplish by making players initial cc transactions? It only succeeds in alienating players. I will never deposit at a Rival casino again using a cc. I tried to cash out a lousy $100 and I got "initial this!" forms to sign. Well, keep the $100. This is just wrong from a players perspective. It shouts "we dont trust you". Frankly, I was insulted and my withdrawal was held hostage unit I "initialed". I question the value vs. unwelcome.

    Sorry to pick on you thisisvegas. In fact I play at your casino (I regularly play at all) and I have no complaints. Just dont use a cc! Ever!

  • #11
    thisisvegas is offline Former Member
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    I will have to double check my policies for CC deposits but I am a player first, affiliate second and manager third so I do understand it on all levels and I really do understand what players have had to go through. Sure I do get annoyed at having to send in documents but for thisisvegas our chargebacks are nearly next to nothing and for all the players I have dealt with I only had one person complain about it.

    This is a sensitive topic that I was only trying to help shed some light on especially from an operator's point of view. I don't know exactly why we do the initialing of the individual deposits but I can only assume it is some sort of security feature and that it was a big problem in the past with it. I don't think initialing deposits is that much more work or says "we don't trust you" more than having to sign a form saying you deposited with us and we require your ID and proof of address. If the player thought we didn't trust them to begin with then asking for any one of ID, utility bill or a signed credit card faxback form. The only complaint I had was a player asking why they were asked to initial the deposits and we explained why, on top of this I sent the player a free chip. If we had constant complaints then we would consider changing this policy and look at if it was worth the added risk of getting a chargeback or the problems by not doing this.

    Maybe our policy might be deemed a little strict but unless I hear an outcry from players and/or affiliates I won't change much or apologize for it. I do know I get to spend more time on the players and affiliates and less time on fraud and it's a breathe of fresh air for me personally.

    In the meantime I do listen to players and affiliates and always look for ways to improve my program. I do appreciate feedback.

    Cheers,

    John

  • #12
    Ziggy is offline Private Member
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    I downloaded thisisvegas software once and played to mainly work on a review.

    However, the next time, you guys wanted so much information before I could play again I did not bother.

    At the same time, I can understand you want to know who you are dealing with for sure for many reasons.

    As a player, though, I think its a tad overboard and would keep some from bothering.

    It stopped me and I am just an affiliate. I honestly could have contacted support and probably worked it out, but it was too much trouble.

    Hopefully you lighten up a bit.


    Thanks,

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    Ive read everything and I just want to be clear...People who want to deposit at a rival casino need to send in fax before they play or deposit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumacat View Post
    Ive read everything and I just want to be clear...People who want to deposit at a rival casino need to send in fax before they play or deposit?
    Chris, keep in mind it was some time ago, but I downloaded then deposited and played (in order to check out their software, etc., to review).

    I attempted to deposit again and on this second time they wanted proof of who I was (might have been drivers/license or passport - can't remember).

    Just recently I tried again and was immediately told to contact customer service. I have not.

    I think their casino is great - just a lot of hoops for players to jump through after their first deposit.

    Although, your question needs to be answered by them because they have probably made changes since I played.

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    thisisvegas is offline Former Member
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    ok I got a clarification from accounting and we don't do it all the time (actually much less common so I jumped the gun) and it depends on the player, by that I mean their type of play. If they came to the casino as a new player, don't claim bonuses and start betting large on games like blackjack, VP or craps who look like a candidate for win big cashin / lose big chargeback then we will ask them to initial the deposits. For credit card deposits yes we do ask for standard faxback information. My apologies for the confusion but we have done it before but it is not a standard procedure like I made it sound to be.

    John

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    I should reiterate that the initialing for cc's is for all Rivals and not just specifically This Is Vegas, which is a good casino with great support. My experience happened at a different Rival casino. Maybe I over react but I am still put off by it. Rival casinos are on the ball and I enjoy playing at them. Like Ziggy mentioned, all the extra steps however can put off players. I will still play but not share my cc. Perhaps initialing at the time of deposit would be better, then at least you know.

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    thisisvegas is offline Former Member
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    I can't speak on behalf of all Rivals because not all use the same payment processor but I am certain that all casinos under 400Affiliates and related by Pantasia as well. The initialing of deposits as I am told is rare but this is the judgement of the accounting team. Again apologies for the confusion

    I understand this is a turn off so I think the accounting team use their judgement on doing such a thing. I know for myself I was recently asked to sign a fax back form but my account was locked until I sent in the forms and they took days to process (review) them and this was for a large and respectable gaming company whom I won't name.

    For the most part we do try to encourage players use payment processors opposed to credit cards, but for credit cards it seems standard to request documents and to sign a fax back form.

    John

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    I am very glad to know this doesn't happen often. I guess I was one of the rare ones lol.

    Thank you for checking so quickly John. I am grateful to learn more about this policy and now it makes more sense.


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    Default Virgin Casino Negative Balance - Chargeback ?

    Out of nowhere I saw over £1400 in negative balance in my account for Virgin Casino. And it is not even 1 week passed for this month.





    I'm not sure what this is for. I've sent it to affiliate manager and awaiting reply.

    If it is going to be Chargeback them I'm completely F***ed.

    I never looked much into chargebacks and negative carryovers and that too with so huge amount. To be honest I didn't even think that it could happen.

    I was always under impression that as affiliate we share profits and not any frauds from others for which we affiliates have no connection at all.

    Isn't it a common sense that as business, a Casino has to bear the losses and not we affiliates who have nothing to do with business. We send players and if they make profit to casinos we get a share. If they donít make profit we get nothing. Why we have to occur losses if something goes wrong for which we have no direct connection with. Isnít it the responsibility of casinos to keep their internal business with themselves and pass us just the % of +ve revenue we earn?

    If we share their losses as well in addition to profits then we are business owners and we should rake more than just affiliate earnings....

    I'm furious. If I'm going to be screwed then I'm going to drag Virgin Gaming in the court.

    I'll appreciate if someone can share such situation, specially from Virgin Casino.

  • #20
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    I just chekced the player details and he seems to be playing for about 2 years without any trouble. all of sudden such massive chargeback doesn't make any sense to me.......

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