Go Wild pulling a stunt on a player (RESOLVED)

[Caruso]

FYI:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ay-3600-a.html

Player deposits €200 for a €200 bonus (balance €400), plays €12 slot spins, cashes out €3600...and gets robbed for "bonus abuse".

I'm going to enjoy watching them try to extricate themselves from that.

[FictionNet]

Thank you for posting this. That is a horrible thread. Kinda reminded me of the recent Integra/Grand Duke blackjack ripoff. I don't get as much time as I'd like to spend at CM so I very much appreciate you highlighting potentially important complaints such as this one.


Go Wild are listed at Casino Beacon so I'll follow that thread at CM. I've only had good experiences with Go Wild and I respect their staff so I am definitely going to wait this out before making any judgements but if there's much truth to what's happened then, as one CM poster put it, "this has to be one of the most unacceptable explanation I have ever seen from an accredited casino"

Fingers crossed it turns out okay. Somehow.

[Caruso]

Well, they paid. No choice at all in the circumstances. Care to take a look at their reasons?

This is what they said after being caught:

The casino manager reviewed the case and decided the player was indeed correct and did not violate any of the casino terms; this was only a mistake in the gameplay evaluation of our finance and fraud team.

So, simple mistake? A bit lax first time round, subsequently corrected? Sort of thing that can happen by chance like that?

No, not at all. The casino was absolutely, specifically, forensically clear in why it was denying the money. This is what they had said previously:

After reviewing Anja's play history, our Risk and Fraud department have detected an abusive bonus play.

Player opened an account with GoWiild Casino, deposited maximum amount right away - maximizing the slot bonus offer using auto spin feature while setting up the auto spins to stop when the minimal play-through is complete.

Further more, Anja played only one game using the same bet amount throughout the entire game, making sure the minimum amount needed to complete the wagering has been achieved. Immediately after the player has requested a withdrawal.

The player obviously came with a propose of abusing the casino welcome offer and not for any other reason.

Kindly note that Anja's initial deposit is refunded back to player's Neteller account.

So, the casino's justification, in summary: 1) he deposited the maximum (totally logical and normal); 2) used the autoplay feature (supplied by their software provider and not disallowed for bonuses); 3) played one slot machine (laughably normal) and 4) cashed out when the rules said he could. And that is in the casino's own words, crystal clear.

Then they said "we made a mistake".

Yah, they did. They got caught robbing a player who knew the ropes. That was their mistake. Let's not pussyfoot around the truth. Do you suppose the'll now check back through all the other players whose cashouts they've "mistakenly" confiscated with forensically precise reasoning, and pay them?

And they say these kind of casinos should be legal.

FictionNet, thanks for being a GPWA minority of one and expressing an interest.

[FictionNet]

To quote another CM poster over in that thread, "While I am very happy that the player will receive her winnings, I have to say that this case has left me very disturbed." Another says "this leaves a very bad taste".

I expect that's pretty much how we all feel about it. Some serious damage appears to have been done to Go Wild's reputation and I think we need an honest, transparent explanation here from a GW rep. Right now, I would not feel comfortable playing at Go Wild so how can I expect my players to feel any different? Recommending my players to join Go Wild on my sites now looks dodgy to anyone who has read about this case. Granted, many people don't know about CM or this thread but that's hardly the point. I am sending players to a casino who have very recently and very blatantly attempted to rip off a player. That players could have been one of my visitiors. That player could have been me.

I'll gladly wait for a GW rep to post here but I'll be removing GW's brands from my main pages until then.

[FictionNet]

GoWild just got binned at CM.

"After careful consideration, I've decided to remove GoWild from the Accredited Casino section. Yes, I understand that the player was eventually paid, but this does not erase the fact that the casino management attempted to confiscate the player's winnings via "bonus abuse" jargon. Like many have pointed out in this thread, this behavior by the casino administration is alarming and not acceptable whatsoever. Personally, I am dumbfounded that any manager would even let the phrase "you abused our bonus" pass his lips. This is clearly a "Spirit of the Bonus" issue, and many casinos are failing to see that there are no bonus abusers - just badly written bonuses."

There was more to the above post, I've just pasted the first paragraph. Rest is here:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...3600-a-10.html

[Yoni-Gowild Gaming]

Hi,

There was an issue and that issue was resolved for the good.
It was a mistake and that mistake was fixed and GoWild take full responsibility.
We took all steps to make sure this will not happen again in future.

We will continue giving the best service to both affiliates and players and continue delivering good results as we always did.

Thanks,
Yoni

[FictionNet]

Hi, Yoni

Thanks for posting - it's appreciated. I like the Go Wild brand and the staff there - you know that. But this is an important issue so I do have to look closely at what's best for my players.

There was an issue and that issue was resolved for the good.

Yep, the player was paid and promptly, following the CM thread. This is the only silver lining of this cloud.

It was a mistake and that mistake was fixed and GoWild take full responsibility.

What kind of 'mistake' was this? The mistake appears to have been shafting a player who knew where to complain. If that's not the case, please elaborate where you can. If this was a genuine mistake then can we safely assume it's happened to other, genuine players? Are you contacting them to rectify these mistakes?

We took all steps to make sure this will not happen again in future.

Again, please elaborate. If this was a genuine mistake then presumably certain steps have been taken to "make sure this will not happen again". What possible steps could these be?

We will continue giving the best service to both affiliates and players and continue delivering good results as we always did.

That's not exactly accurate now, is it? We know you've given 'best service' to affiliates (thanks!) but we now know of at least one player who didn't exactly get 'best service'.

Yoni, I'm not trying to catch you out here. I'm open to all answers you might come back with. Over to you.

[Anthony]

Thank you Yoni for replying and continuing to address affiliates questions.

I am glad the issue was resolved and the player was paid, I am marking the thread appropriately.

[TheGamblingGuru]

Thank you Yoni for replying and continuing to address affiliates questions.

I am glad the issue was resolved and the player was paid, I am marking the thread appropriately.

Good idea, I agree! Lets get this one under the rug asap, there's nothing else that needs to be resolved and most of us like the GPWA promote this brand, so how can we continue to make a profit here if we keep dragging this out by asking more questions.

Keep up the good work Anthony and Yoni

____
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[Yoni-Gowild Gaming]

Hi all,

GoWild Malta would like to state that -

Hi All,



Please allow GoWild Malta to state that -



GoWild Finance department process hundreds of payments every day. The judgment in this case was in fact wrong as stated previously, but this was a specific problem and not a general process.
GoWild has decided because of this case to run all withdrawals through few officers and any extraordinary case will be dealt by the casino manager only.

Again GoWild management is very sorry for this thing to happen and took full responsibility, GoWild has no intention to hold any transactions whatsoever.
We will continue to improve and up our service to bring the best experience to our customers and continue operating as if we were accredited casino on CasinoMeister.


Truth of the matter is that being in this industry for so many years and most of affiliates know me - I never found a better place to be than GoWild.
A Brand that converts very well, has the longest player lifetime and let's not forget paying the fastest among any other brand can all speak to itself.
I appreciate everyone input on this. Mistakes can happen but we are here to resolve them.

Thanks,
Yoni

[Anthony]

The player was paid, GoWild is addressing the issue that flagged the player in the first place. Unfortunately these things can happen, fraud departments are extra cautious these days. Not one program is perfect, not one person is perfect. We all make mistakes. It is how a company deals with these issues and takes steps to make sure they don't happen again that we judge programs. They made it right and made a commitment to take steps so it would not be repeated.

[Caruso]

It was a mistake and that mistake was fixed and GoWild take full responsibility.
We took all steps to make sure this will not happen again in future.

Yes, there was a "mistake". But the "mistake" was that you attempted to rob a player you weren't aware knew the ropes. Obviously, if you'd known he would trot straight off to a forum where GoWild advertises and where it is held to at least some standards, you would never have attempted to rob him.

This was the mistake.

Clearly, since you quite forensically and precisely detailed the list of "transgressions" you were unhappy with, and all those "transgressions" remain as true now as they were when you originally made them, there was no "mistake" in any of your findings, which were that the player followed the rules.

So let's be quite clear about what the mistake was: you tried to rob a player who it was, in retrospect, inadvisable to so treat. Can we at least be clear about this?

In that regard, how can we take "...all steps to make sure this will not happen again in future."? Your findings were not "mistaken", they were a simple a detailing of the player's history and a decision to not pay him. How can you make sure this doesn't happen again?

If you steal someone's wallet - as you did, in essence - all you can realistically do is promise to turn over a new leaf and not steal anyone else's wallet. Is this what you are promising?

I'm not in essence saying anything different to FictionNet here, whose stance in putting integrity before profit I find very heartening.

Anthony...bit disappointed with your comments there. I know, of course, that you can find yourself between a rock and a hard place on occasions.

[TheGamblingGuru]

The player was paid, GoWild is addressing the issue that flagged the player in the first place. Unfortunately these things can happen, fraud departments are extra cautious these days. Not one program is perfect, not one person is perfect. We all make mistakes. It is how a company deals with these issues and takes steps to make sure they don't happen again that we judge programs. They made it right and made a commitment to take steps so it would not be repeated.

Exactly, totally agree.

____
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[Caruso]

Whoa, Bryan Bailey removed GoWild from his recommended casinos list. OK, hands in the air: I did not see that coming, the cynic in me expected him to back them.

Note to self to not assume the worst from people on the basis that I often disagree with them. Ain't always the way. People would do well to read this, which I fully support:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...3600-a-10.html

After careful consideration, I've decided to remove GoWild from the Accredited Casino section. Yes, I understand that the player was eventually paid, but this does not erase the fact that the casino management attempted to confiscate the player's winnings via "bonus abuse" jargon. Like many have pointed out in this thread, this behavior by the casino administration is alarming and not acceptable whatsoever.

Personally, I am dumbfounded that any manager would even let the phrase "you abused our bonus" pass his lips. This is clearly a "Spirit of the Bonus" issue, and many casinos are failing to see that there are no bonus abusers - just badly written bonuses.

If casinos are going to use bonuses to cater to player greed, then they need to toe the line just as the players do.

GoWild had a history of negating winnings because of bonus abuse, and when they came on board in February this year, I thought they had this squared away. It was posted last Spring that things were changing. Unfortunately someone didn't get the memo.

Even though the casino reps are great reps in this forum, I don't feel comfortable recommending this casino any longer. Thus they are off the site.

Right on. Word for word what I'd have said.

EDIT: noted that FictionNet actually already posted the passage I quoted.

[bonustreak]

Glad to see the title says resolved because we have marketed Go Wild for a long time with no player issues at all, we are very happy with the affiliate program in fact they are starting to be our # month after month.

[Caruso]

Glad to see the title says resolved because we have marketed Go Wild for a long time with no player issues at all, we are very happy with the affiliate program in fact they are starting to be our # month after month.

Or, if I could take the opportunity to put it another way:

Lets get this one under the rug asap...most of us like the GPWA promote this brand, so how can we continue to make a profit here if we keep dragging this out by asking more questions?

Does the GPWA endorse this statement? I think it's fair to ask the question, as the GPWA was referenced.

[FictionNet]

Does the GPWA endorse this statement? I think it's fair to ask the question, as the GPWA was referenced.

I must have read that statement five or six times, at least. I still can't work out whether it's meant to be sarcastic. I hope it is.

[Caruso]

They're still trying to push the "mistake" line:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post457017

Gowild had one mistake that they admitted it publicly and resolved it within hours.

Yah, you tried to rob someone who knew the ropes. That was your mistake.

How about a bit of honesty in admitting this?

[universal4]

I don't get as much time as I'd like to spend at CM so I very much appreciate you highlighting potentially important complaints such as this one.

I agree, a number of us really do appreciate you bringing this stuff up....

I want to believe this truly was a mistake and not that they are only saying that it was since they were "caught" but only time will tell.

If casinos are going to use bonuses to cater to player greed, then they need to toe the line just as the players do.

Well said Bryan.

Rick
Universal4

[slotplayer]

I don't even play online. Just too complicated, too many traps, wr bs, restricted games, max allowed bets.