View Poll Results: Good or not good to be a sub-affiliate?

Voters
8. You may not vote on this poll
  • I think it is fine to be a sub-affiliate and have frequently signed up under other affiliates.

    1 12.50%
  • I think it is fine to be a sub-affiliate and have signed up under other affiliates one or more times times.

    0 0%
  • I think it is fine to be a sub-affiliate but have never signed up under other affiliates.

    1 12.50%
  • I'm not sure it is good to be a sub-affiliate but I have signed up under other affiliates.

    3 37.50%
  • I'm not sure it is good to be a sub-affiliate and I have never signed up under other affiliates.

    1 12.50%
  • I believe it is bad to be a sub-affiliate but I have signed up under other affiliates.

    1 12.50%
  • I believe it is bad to be a sub-affiliate and I have never signed up under other affiliates.

    1 12.50%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,689
    Thanks
    2,000
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,275 Posts

    Question Good or not good to be a sub affiliate?

    These days I had a discussion with an affiliate manager about someone being my sub affiliate. That makes that I receive some sub aff commission, but that negotiations for him (the sub aff) will be harder, as a higher commission for him, also means that 5% of his earnings will be more that the brand has to pay me than with a lower commission.

    Ofc, this is true, because it cost the casino money and ofc they calculate with this. For example:

    I got a sub aff deal of 5%. Another affiliate signs up directed by my link and he gets standard commission of - let's say - 25%. Let's say, he's making 4.000 net revenue a month with this program, which means he receives - no costs, no admin fees, no bonus costs, etc - 1.000. And.. I receive 50. Total cost for the brand: 1.050

    Let's say he wants to give them topposition, but wants 50% commission for that. That means, they have to pay him 2.000 and to me 100, because that's 5 % of 2.000. Total cost for the brand: 2.100. SO what he actually says that in this case he perhaps give this affiliate 45% while without being sub aff he would give them 50%.

    This affiliate manager say that with negotiation he always got the master aff in mind and that it plays a strong role. What do you think?

    Is this a real and often happening scenario or is this guy just some penny pincher?

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Triple7 For This Useful Post:

    555 (16 October 2015), MichaelCorfman (21 October 2015), Vrindavan (21 October 2015)

  3. #2
    F-L-C is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    August 2010
    Posts
    1,048
    Thanks
    141
    Thanked 331 Times in 253 Posts

  4. #3
    MMM
    MMM is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    October 2014
    Posts
    1,174
    Thanks
    294
    Thanked 531 Times in 368 Posts

    Default

    Instead of him, i would act the same way. Of course, in most cases the people that sign under you won't reach the "max" commission and in many cases, unless they start bringing serious traffic, the additional % will go unnoticed.

    I am quite sure that with many programs it can go unnoticed even in "big" affiliate cases. But if it is noticed, i am sure that it is (and should be) part of the negotiations.

    I had one program that i requested X% and he said that he can give X-3% because then it makes up to X with the affiliate i signed through.

    Bottom line: it's a formula based on the amount of traffic the sub affiliate brings, the commissions he asks for and the punctuality of the AM/affiliate program.
    Best casinos to play slot machines online for real money. Reviews of best Real Money Casinos online.
    Check OnlineBlackjackExplorer for ratings of the best casinos to play blackjack online. Which games offer the lowest house edge, as well as free blackjack games, live dealer and mobile blackjack sites.

  5. #4
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,689
    Thanks
    2,000
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,275 Posts

    Default

    I agree with that, but just in cased he really is going to negotiate it to the bottom. If they're not going to negotiate at all and they just take the standard commission, it's no discussion at all.

    If they're making traffic, their traffic will be always 2, 3, 4, 5 10 or whatever sub aff % more expensive than the traffic for someone who arrived from Google.

    So that makes that indeed it's better to not be a sub affiliate because it will cost you money in the end if you're going hard and negotiating to the bottom for a better commission.

  6. #5
    universal4's Avatar
    universal4 is offline Forum Administrator
    Join Date
    July 2003
    Location
    Sinking Faster, just when I thought it couldn't get worse it did!
    Posts
    26,227
    Thanks
    1,704
    Thanked 7,552 Times in 4,765 Posts

    Default

    Maybe players should start negotiating directly with the casinos.

    Rick
    Universal4

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to universal4 For This Useful Post:

    Triple7 (16 October 2015)

  8. #6
    xecutable's Avatar
    xecutable is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2011
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    1,678
    Thanks
    514
    Thanked 1,010 Times in 574 Posts

    Default

    Lawl what is this gimmick .... Usually programs pay 3-5% of the NET REVENUE of the sub affiliate to you, not of his earnings. What he makes or will make etc should be irrelevant to you, at least that's how it goes with legitimate programs.

    You are simply bringing another "promoter" for their brand. If his players generate a revenue of 100k a month, you get your %, and you could (should) care less what his/her conditions are with the brand.

    So yeah I think this guy is taking you for a ride. In his scenario it seems like everyone loses but you.

    P.S Have dozen of subs, a few large and active ones, never had to worry what their deals are with the brand.
    Gambipedia.com - casino, poker, sports betting guides, reviews & bonuses.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to xecutable For This Useful Post:

    Triple7 (16 October 2015)

  10. #7
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,689
    Thanks
    2,000
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,275 Posts

    Default

    If it's calculated of revenue share or his earnings, it will cost them extra money anyway. If someone is sub affiliate, he's costing 5% more if the sub aff is 5% more.

    I do completely agree that it's giving a strange taste. There's a sub aff commission, there are sub aff banners, so it seemed to be the idea that I try to bring als sub affs.

    So, he gots a point. It's more expensive being a sub aff than not being one... but.... it also sounds quite penny pinching. Ofcourse every euro is one, but I'm bringing an affiliate and this affiliate is supposed to bring them players. Than make some of this statements about a few euro extra....

    He's totally right it's costing extra. But that's the whole idea. If I wasn't there, he wouldn't have this affiliate perhaps and wouldn't have his players.

    @Universal4: Yes... following this arguments, a high roller should better contact the casino and ask what deal he can get if he doesn't sign up with an affiliate link. If I got a commission of 50% on his revenue, it saves them 50% so giving this high roller 40% would be a win for the casino and a win for that high roller. While I did the work convincing this high roller to play at this casino, I'm left behind without a single penny.
    Last edited by Triple7; 16 October 2015 at 3:05 pm.

  11. #8
    sweetbet's Avatar
    sweetbet is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    November 2012
    Posts
    2,819
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    899
    Thanked 1,581 Times in 1,088 Posts

    Default

    Most of my sub affiliates have generated very small amounts of money for me over the years, that for me, it is not worth having them.
    Sweet Bet - Reviews of reputable online casinos, poker sites, sportsbooks & bingo halls
    USA Online Casinos | Canadian Online Casinos | Bitcoin Casinos | Live Dealer Casinos | Free Spin Casinos | US Online Casinos

  12. #9
    xecutable's Avatar
    xecutable is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2011
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    1,678
    Thanks
    514
    Thanked 1,010 Times in 574 Posts

    Default

    But in that sense, no affiliates is better than having them cause then you save even more on costs lol. And following that, shutdown the whole affiliate department it saves even more costs.

    The thing is the whole pyramid model grows exponentially you bring 2 sub affiliates , they bring 2 etc etc, if these people can't do the math and will make you feel like you owe them something, then perhaps it's not in ur best interest to bring them any sub affiliates.
    Gambipedia.com - casino, poker, sports betting guides, reviews & bonuses.

  13. #10
    MMM
    MMM is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    October 2014
    Posts
    1,174
    Thanks
    294
    Thanked 531 Times in 368 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetbet View Post
    Most of my sub affiliates have generated very small amounts of money for me over the years, that for me, it is not worth having them.
    That's exactly why in 99% of the cases the discussion above never happens.
    Best casinos to play slot machines online for real money. Reviews of best Real Money Casinos online.
    Check OnlineBlackjackExplorer for ratings of the best casinos to play blackjack online. Which games offer the lowest house edge, as well as free blackjack games, live dealer and mobile blackjack sites.

  14. #11
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,689
    Thanks
    2,000
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,275 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xecutable View Post
    But in that sense, no affiliates is better than having them cause then you save even more on costs lol. And following that, shutdown the whole affiliate department it saves even more costs.

    The thing is the whole pyramid model grows exponentially you bring 2 sub affiliates , they bring 2 etc etc, if these people can't do the math and will make you feel like you owe them something, then perhaps it's not in ur best interest to bring them any sub affiliates.
    True. If they can't stand the heat... Offering such a program, means you also are going to have some costs. But also some players. Same thing for bonus terms that casino's are offering to players. Costs something, but it attracts players.

    They indeed should have calculated this before they offered such a program. Again with bonus terms. I hate casinos offering the most crazy bonuses and than try to look how they can confisquate winnings if some player won with a bonus. Than better do not offer those bonuses at all.

    To me penny pinching behaviour say a lot. Also with casinos. If terms are full of penny pinching terms, you know they;re going to do all to not pay or to pay less. Same thing for affiliate programs.

    Few weeks ago I was approached by them for a better position on my website. Everything was possible. And now they're pinching about 3%. That's says enough. Although they are right that it are extra costs, but like you write, those extra costs are easy to avoid. Just close this sub aff thing. Than I also won't refer any sub affs anymore to them.

    With 3% it must be about quite som revenue to talk about some money that's worth having a discussion. 3% of € 10.000 is just € 300... and how many affiliates do have a revenue of € 10.000 on one brand? My sub affs aren't having so far.

  15. #12
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    January 2015
    Posts
    2,689
    Thanks
    2,000
    Thanked 2,379 Times in 1,275 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MMM View Post
    That's exactly why in 99% of the cases the discussion above never happens.
    In this care neither it isn't about big money. The sub aff we're talking about didn't make a penny so far and it doesn't seem they will make high x.xxx or xx.xxx a month on their not top positioned brands.

  16. #13
    MMM
    MMM is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    October 2014
    Posts
    1,174
    Thanks
    294
    Thanked 531 Times in 368 Posts

    Default

    That's strange then. Since in this case, he can't anyway get the max possible commission, so your master aff commission should make no real difference - for sure won't reach the point that it makes his traffic not profitable for the casino.

    Actually, the AM shouldn't involve you in that. He should discuss it with your sub affiliate and see if they can find the middle ground.

    In general - I think that's ok the program offer sub affiliate deals even that it will bring to some trouble negotiating with 1% of sub affs. Eventually, it's just another part in future negotiations with the sub affilaite: the positions, the number of real depositors and also that he has master affiliate.
    Best casinos to play slot machines online for real money. Reviews of best Real Money Casinos online.
    Check OnlineBlackjackExplorer for ratings of the best casinos to play blackjack online. Which games offer the lowest house edge, as well as free blackjack games, live dealer and mobile blackjack sites.

  17. #14
    F-L-C is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    August 2010
    Posts
    1,048
    Thanks
    141
    Thanked 331 Times in 253 Posts

    Default

    Some offer a % of earnings and some off a % of net revenue so if you are interested in recruiting them I wouldn't do it for this program, I would do it for one that pays you a % of net revenue

  18. #15
    matthewt's Avatar
    matthewt is offline On Vacation
    Join Date
    July 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    525
    Blog Entries
    5
    Thanks
    1,003
    Thanked 207 Times in 162 Posts

    Default

    Too many numbers. I really have not thought about sub affiliate promoting, lately, 'cause I never brought in enough referrals on my casino affiliate program page within my portal.

    Is that easy to understand?

    99.9% of my effort is now getting players, not affiliates.

  19. #16
    MrBinaryAff's Avatar
    MrBinaryAff is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    August 2014
    Location
    Leeds, UK
    Posts
    743
    Thanks
    200
    Thanked 231 Times in 188 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewt View Post
    Too many numbers. I really have not thought about sub affiliate promoting, lately, 'cause I never brought in enough referrals on my casino affiliate program page within my portal.

    Is that easy to understand?

    99.9% of my effort is now getting players, not affiliates.
    I think you should keep focusing on actual players. If you will try to convince someone to promote some casino brand (as subaff) you are going to get very small amount of % (read money), but you will probably waste at least one hour to explain the guy what this casino is all about (rev share model, cpa, brand, why they are good etc). SO it is kinda pointless

    If you know a big fish and making them your subaff would be a good deal, other than that it is waste of time I believe!
    My website: http://mrbinary.co.uk/

    Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MrBinaryAff
    Like my pictures on Instagram: https://instagram.com/mrbinary

  20. #17
    F-L-C is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    August 2010
    Posts
    1,048
    Thanks
    141
    Thanked 331 Times in 253 Posts

    Default

    I would focus on players too over sub affiliates, sub affiliates is only really worthwhile focusing on if you have someone specific in mind

  21. #18
    xecutable's Avatar
    xecutable is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    March 2011
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    1,678
    Thanks
    514
    Thanked 1,010 Times in 574 Posts

    Default

    Ive written this before, but i'll write it again. I never had sub-aff banners, or anything that remotely hinted, "register here as my sub-aff". All Ive done is answer questions or contributed here on various topics. Believe it or not, some of your colleagues are grateful enough to reward you for your help, as being your sub-affiliate. And it's not just small affiliates if this is what you are wondering.
    Gambipedia.com - casino, poker, sports betting guides, reviews & bonuses.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to xecutable For This Useful Post:

    Triple7 (18 October 2015), universal4 (18 October 2015)

  23. #19
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
    Join Date
    June 2004
    Location
    Newton, MA
    Posts
    4,052
    Thanks
    804
    Thanked 5,067 Times in 1,653 Posts

    Default

    Triple7,

    Thanks for posting the question. I've added a poll to the question and in today's GPWA Times weekly newsletter we will use it as the question of the week.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

  24. #20
    MMM
    MMM is offline Private Member
    Join Date
    October 2014
    Posts
    1,174
    Thanks
    294
    Thanked 531 Times in 368 Posts

    Default

    I voted " I believe it is bad to be a sub-affiliate but I have signed up under other affiliates."

    The only reason I sign up under someone else is as a sign of appreciation for his/her help and assistance.
    Best casinos to play slot machines online for real money. Reviews of best Real Money Casinos online.
    Check OnlineBlackjackExplorer for ratings of the best casinos to play blackjack online. Which games offer the lowest house edge, as well as free blackjack games, live dealer and mobile blackjack sites.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to MMM For This Useful Post:

    Triple7 (21 October 2015)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •