GPWA knowledge of the iGB/CAP relationship

[MichaelCorfman]

Let me try to set the record straight here with some facts.

I was under the distinct impression and honestly believed that CAP was being completely removed from any involvement with the iGB events. My view was that the name change that happened nearly a year ago now represented the reality of what was happening in terms of relationship changes behind the scenes, and I had many discussions that seemed to confirm to me that was the case.

Fast forward to around a month ago. I started hearing rumors that were inconsistent with my understanding of the situation, and then also noticed CAP was listed as a sponsor of the iGB London conference and the GPWA was not listed anywhere.

In response to this information, which was all new to me, I sent an e-mail message to Alex Pratt on December 23rd which, in part, said the following:

Alex:

I'm concerned that things to not look the way we discussed them as being.

1. The LAC website lists CAP as a marketing partner...
2. ......
3. I have been told that CAP retains a financial interest in the iGB conferences.
4. ......

This all seems quite inconsistent with what I understood was happening.

.....

Please understand that although this message was written in a very calm fashion, I felt deceived that the signs pointed to real financial involvement on the part of CAP. However, I knew Alex was on holiday for his honeymoon at the time, so I did not expect to receive a response right away. I did finally receive a response from Alex very shortly after he returned on January 3rd.

I sent several e-mail messages to Alex over the next couple days expressing dismay that the situation was so different than I viewed I had been lead to believe. And I also made it very clear to Alex that I viewed that he needed to publicly state the current situation. To quote a sentence from one of my e-mail messages to Alex: "I think you need to come clean that there is a business relationship with CAP still and that the nature of that relationship is one where they have a beneficial financial interest in the success of the show."

I did expect Alex would do so, and I was correct about that. In the meantime I had shared internally within our company information that Alex had shared with me. However, my view was that Alex would disclose the information shortly, as I had requested, so I did not view it as appropriate for any of our staff to comment on the matter because I felt Alex would do so and so it was appropriate to let him state the situation.

In this context I was very upset when the information that was shared within our company was used to make public posts about what was happening rather than waiting a little while for the information to be revealed publicly. As a consequence I removed posts made that I viewed as associated with knowledge of this this information.

There was no coverup at all on my part. Just a desire to give Alex a chance to state the situation on the record himself which he subsequently did.

Michael

[joeyl]

Fair enough.

Cap, as with Virtual, have the way forward ahead of them to turn into good guys. There is space for that always.

Don't try and be smartasses though. No one likes a smartass.

[PokerNations]

Thanks for the clarification Michael. Hopefully there will be changes forthcoming in the future for these shows

[lauferb]

sorry, I'm a bit new in this forum and don't know what happened with cap in the past and why is there such a big issue between CAP and GPWA?
can somebody tell a bit more about what happened there?

thanks

[casinobonusguy]

I guess now that it is all out we will see if the same people who dumped them online will do the same offline and stop supporting the events.
This will be the first time we ever took part in a cap event , we have gone to London and Amsterdam when the conference was on but had meetings in the city with couple groups then went on a cruise from the city or flew to middle east to visit friends we have in North Africa.I can never justify the Jetlag for a few days so always like to add a vacation in with the conference dates.My next conference I plan to go to will be fall 2011 regardless of who owns it or runs it.

[Nandakishore]

Thanks Michael for this very clear description of what happened and your actions seem to me quite logical and comprehensible.

[PokerNations]

sorry, I'm a bit new in this forum and don't know what happened with cap in the past and why is there such a big issue between CAP and GPWA?
can somebody tell a bit more about what happened there?

thanks

It's a long story and I'm a bit tired to recount it all or locate all the old threads.

But essentially CAP was using multiple companies to try and hide that they were running the affiliate program for Cardspike (a poker room that went belly up and wasn't paying everyone what they were owed)

This was a conflict of interest given their companies position in the industry. And they had used bullying tactics to try and silence anyone who spoke up, as well as to try and keep people in our industry from working with anyone they viewed as a competitor (i.e. trying to monopolize via mafia-style tactics)

There were also issues on their forums where they banned people they felt were asking too many questions (or were associated with people who asked too many questions) and there was at least one instance where they banned a member and then logged into that members account to make a post (as if they were that member) in support of the way things were going down.

Then there was a blowup internally between the three owners as the truth started to be revealed, which got particularly nasty as they were hurling insults back and forth at one another.

There was also some physical altercations at an industry event (or threats, something along those lines) and it was just a very piss-poor way to conduct themselves in a time when our industry doesn't need the bad press.

Bottom line, the folks behind CAP are unethical douchebags and you aren't doing anyone a favor if you help to line their pockets with cash and forget or ignore who they really are.

People who conduct themselves in that manner don't change. They consider themselves above reproach because in their mind what they're doing is fine because it's all about the end result (the mighty dollar) and they don't care who they have to step on to get there.

The owners behind CAP have no remorse, save for the fact they were caught. Being apathetic towards their continued connection and beneficiary relationship just plays into their greedy paws.

[pgaming]

Fair enough.

Cap, as with Virtual, have the way forward ahead of them to turn into good guys. There is space for that always.

I can see the parallel joeyl lol.

Oh wow the GPWA is muscled to the ground again! Thrown in the mud and made too beg to enter the doors. Very sad Michael IMO too think your son and JTodd were attacked at one of these events. No wonder if ones only pursuit in life is monetary life becomes very miserable.

I could easily attend but would rather boycott the event. I will wait for some smaller gatherings to pop up.

pgaming/ shaddy

[thepokerkeep]

Michael,

First, thank you for giving us a clear picture of how you came to know about CAP's involvement in the conference.

But now that you do have this information, what do you plan to do about it? From what I'm reading here in the forums, you are still planning to attend along with JTodd and at least one other member of your staff.

Frankly, I'm shocked! Why would you and your staff knowingly attend a CAP conference?

These are the same conferences where Steven Corfman was physically tossed from the hotel lobby. The same company that lied, stole, threatened, bullied and cheated. The same company that tried to take over the APCW. The same company that went after Affiliate Guard Dog. The same company that mass banned it's forum members (including you). The same company that just admitted it mislead everyone about their role in the conferences.

I can't see one good or valid reason for you or JTodd to support CAP in any form. Your attendance at the conference conveys the wrong impression. By attending, you are giving the impression that you condone what they've done.

If J Todd, Michael Corfman and Bryan Bailey are willing to so easily forgive and forget, what hope is there for our industry?

[Skinski]

Bottom line, the folks behind CAP are unethical douchebags and you aren't doing anyone a favor if you help to line their pockets with cash and forget or ignore who they really are.

People who conduct themselves in that manner don't change. They consider themselves above reproach because in their mind what they're doing is fine because it's all about the end result (the mighty dollar) and they don't care who they have to step on to get there.

The owners behind CAP have no remorse, save for the fact they were caught. Being apathetic towards their continued connection and beneficiary relationship just plays into their greedy paws.

I agree a 110%.
And Terry, you ask some very good questions that I've been wondering about as well.

I had thought the GPWA was about more than just the almighty dollar, but it looks that I've been a fool again for even thinking such a thing when it's still showing support to a rogue organisation like CAP by attending, and being a part of events that just fatten CAPs pockets even more so to help them flourish in business.

[pgaming]

Sad the GPWA always feels in tenth place in this industry. Name one original thing CAP developed on their own. It might take a while because most of CAP was built on the backs of others. Yes this would include the events as well.

Maybe the magazine?

pgaming/ shaddy

[Nandakishore]

If J Todd, Michael Corfman and Bryan Bailey are willing to so easily forgive and forget, what hope is there for our industry?

Indeed! And it also means, J Todd, Michael Corfman and Bryan Bailey won't have any justification in the future in criticizing anything in which CAP and their associates are involved, directly or indirectly.

[Betpartners]

If J Todd, Michael Corfman and Bryan Bailey are willing to so easily forgive and forget, what hope is there for our industry?

Not sure them attending the conferences means they have forgiven or forgotton to be fair.

I prefer to beleive that they are attending for the right reasons and not to line CAP's pockets.

Meaning i am of the opinion that their intentions are in the right place.

[Holland87]

I am not here to side with anyone, CAP or GPWA, but what I want to say is that being that I was lucky enough to go the Las Vegas G2E convention (and hopefully someday will be able to attend another convention) I was able to meet all the big names in the industry. Michael, Bryan, J Todd and Warren.

They were all in the same room on a couple of different occasions and everyone was very professional and cordial (as far as I could tell) with each other.

My take on this is that yes, there are huge issues with what happened at CAP but as people (not names on a forum) at an event, they were on their best behavior and did not let on one bit that there was any "bad blood".

They can continue to fight it out behind the scenes, if they choose to, but I thank them for showing the professionalism that these businessmen ought to show while in public.

And as a first timer to a convention, I was like a kid in Disneyland for the first time. Anything I knew about the CAP meltdown was completely out of my mind.

As a newbie, I would attend another convention regardless as to who's pocket it's lining (to a certain degree) because I would be grateful for the chance to meet and talk to anyone that is a part of my online world.

[lauferb]

thanks PokerNations and Nandakishore for sharing information and explaining to me about this...
maybe I dont understand anything but I think that it's ok to participate, what's the problem? GPWA also has financial interest to participate doesn't it?
and also participating does not mean "accepting" anything, it's just participating in an important event of the industry

[PokerNations]

thanks PokerNations and Nandakishore for sharing information and explaining to me about this...
maybe I dont understand anything but I think that it's ok to participate, what's the problem? GPWA also has financial interest to participate doesn't it?
and also participating does not mean "accepting" anything, it's just participating in an important event of the industry

My issue is that CAP, an unethical company, is going to benefit financially from ALL of these industry events (how much and for how long is still hidden from us)

And given the way they operate, I would not want to do anything that would help them remain in business, or worse, grow in power in our industry.

No offense to Alex or iGB because the contractual issue is obviously something where their hands are likely tied. I just hope there is a way in the future for them to completely detach and be "100% independent" of CAP involvement.

[thepokerkeep]

This has nothing to do with taking sides or whether intentions are in the right place.

Anyone who attends the conference - for whatever reason - is adding to it's success and by doing so is lining the pockets of Warren and CAP.

Let's fast forward to the week following CAP London (errr I mean LAC) - the press release will read something like this...

"London Affiliate Conference a HUGE success... blah blah blah."

Not a headline I want to read. Instead, I'd like to see a headline proclaiming a dismal turnout. Then maybe iGB and CAP would be inclined to dissolve their partnership. Then maybe Alex could run some GREAT CONFERENCES that did not benefit CAP. Now that would be good for our industry.

[Betpartners]

This has nothing to do with taking sides or whether intentions are in the right place.

That is your opinion which you are entitled to and my opinion is different as i am entitled to.

Moving on though i am stunned anyone wants to go to the UK, a country that for centuries colonised defenceless countries and starts illegal wars, anyone visiting the UK is giving money to a corrupt evil country.

If i lived in the USA i would move today, i would refuse to spend money in a country that practised slavery for centuries.

I will also refuse to use airplanes, they are ruining the atmosphere for my children

I wont allow my children to wear Nike, they were made by child labour.

I wont eat frakfurters because the Germans did the holocaust

In fact i wont use anything or deal with anyone that has any relationship with any organsiation/country/entity that at some time has commited an illegal act or acted immorally.

Please excuse me now i have to turn off the PC its tainted see, i have get off my sofa, its tainted you see, i have to clear out teh fridge of food its tainted you see.

In fact if you want me i will be standing naked on the town square as it is the only place i can be under this new regime.

Or i could just stay here and live in the real world

Ok over the top and i apologise but this is the point i am making

We all, every single one of us make subjective judgements on how we live our lives and earn our living and if every single one of us took the high moral ground then you would all be naked in the town square.

It is not for others to continually badger others on their decisions.

[thepokerkeep]

You're right. Rogues and predators should be allowed to run rampant through our industry. Who am I to say anything negative about them? I wouldn't want to be seen as a badger.

The GPWA and APCW must be held to a higher standard. They proclaim themselves (and are perceived to be) industry guardians and advocates for honesty, integrity, and transparency in the online gaming industry. They need to lead by example.

[Betpartners]

You're right. Rogues and predators should be allowed to run rampant through our industry. Who am I to say anything negative about them? I wouldn't want to be seen as a badger.

The GPWA and APCW must be held to a higher standard. They proclaim themselves (and are perceived to be) industry guardians and advocates for honesty, integrity, and transparency in the online gaming industry. They need to lead by example.

Come on Terry your better than that, i never said that rogues and predators should run rampant through the industry, please dont twist my words.

What i said is that each of us must make subjective decision in the same way some wont promote microgaming because of grand prive while some do still promote microgaming and yet both agree grand prive is rogue and microgaming is aiding and abetting.

I am also not refering to the GPWA/Casinomeister or whatever other organisation is attending i am refering to ALL affiliates in whatever role they are.

I never said anyone that attends this conference lines CAPS pocket mate you did and that in effect is saying to affiliates they are wrong for going.

With due respect who are you to make that assumption, it is down to individuals to make that decision based on their own circumstances.

Going down the boycott route is self defeating sometimes and this instance for the general affiliate it is up to them to decide if they can justify in their own minds the decision to atend.

As an individual affiliate i respect their decison and have no intention of trying to persuade them one way or another with hollow guilt trips.