Is Irish Luck Casino stealing $215,000 of players money...?

[KasinoKing]

... because it certainly looks like it!

They ran a promo of free-chips to play the Rival progressive slot One Million Reels BC... but with a max cash-out of $375.
(Think about it - how stupid is that?)

And guess what - a player using this promo hit the jackpot of $215,427.
But according to the T&C's the casino only have to pay the player $375, which means Irish Luck get to pocket $215,052 of players money - money which is supposed to be paid out to the people who put it in, not the casino.

This story is unconfirmed at the moment, but if true would be the biggest scandal to hit Rival since their conception IMO, and extremely damaging to Irish Luck's credibility as a safe & reputable casino to play at.

If it is true, I hope other Rival casino's reps will apply pressure to get the right thing done here.

Story at CasinoMeister:-
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/31127-one-million-reels-bc-204-167-54-hit-today.html

KK

[mojo]

Thanks for letting us know KK.

I have the mail for this and went to the casino and the offer is gone now so I couldn't get the t/c. If this player in fact did win the proggresive off the free bonus, we will want to know what happens to that pot. Here is the mail:

Hey everyone, have i got a HUGE & AMAZING GIFT for every active player at Irish Luck Casino We are giving you 10 TOTALLY FREE SPINS to try out One Million Reels BC and see what a great slot it is. Thats a massive $37.50 free gift from your Friends at Irish Luck.
One Million Reels BC delivers fast paced action inside a 5 line slot with a MASSIVE JACKPOT and some great multiplier bonuses.

LETS GO BACK TO THE DINOSAUR YEARS AND PARTY!

IMPORTANT *PLEASE READ THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS VERY CAREFULLY. THIS BONUS IS ONLY FOR ONE MILLION REELS BC

This bonus is ONLY to try out our progressive jackpot slot One Million Reels BC.

You MUST play on BET MAX only.

This bonus gives you 10 FREE spins at $3.75 only.

Playing at a lower bet or at ANY OTHER GAME will null and void the promotion and you will not be able to cash out ANY winnings.

This bonus has wagering terms and a maximum cash out that can ONLY BE PLAYED ON ONE MILLION REELS BC.

This happens at RTG. I myself have hit a progressive (3k) while playing a free chip. The terms are clear that the max cash out was 10x bonus and the progressive win goes back in the pot. RTG returns the pot. Clear enough.

I just checked the jackpot at Million BC at Irish Luck and it is at 15k. If this is true, and I don't see confirmation yet, this players win needs to go back in the pot.

[HenrikGr]

It is hard on the player not getting the money. On the other hand he did accept the terms and conditions with the free spins to try out the slot.

If he was lucky he would have won the jack pot after the free spins was played through, and then he could cash in on it. If that would have happened everyone would probably not be as upset about the promotion.

I agree that the money should be put back into the progressive since it is being built by the players playing the slot and should not end up at the operator.

[Nodepositworld]

Itg seems very clear at this time rergardless if the player gets paid or not that the casino can indeed decide when the jackpot is hit or not. It states that the jackpot was actually hit twice. How can a jackpot be hit twice on the same day a promotional free chip is running? What are the odds. I think with all the noise around rivals these days , you will soon see many of them in the rogue pit. How many of you are winning at a rival casino anyway?

[mojo]

It does raise a couple of sub-questions. Why give free spins on a not so new progressive that is about to hit? Why not on a new i-slot?

I don't think players have a problem with the 375 max cashout on the freebie. Progressives should be won by depositers. It is more about what happens now.

I think Irish Luck will see lots of logins and checking that jackpot. I hope they do it quickly. I see a mutany coming like a big storm cloud.

[Nodepositworld]

Thats exactly why they did the promotion. They did it because they knew it was about to go to a lucky winner. This is their way of making sure they don't have to pay out a huge chunk of cash to a depositing player. They saved themseves 200k and since its not back in the pot we can only assume they consider it won. What a bull crap stunt to pull.

[Chalkie]

Thats exactly why they did the promotion. They did it because they knew it was about to go to a lucky winner. This is their way of making sure they don't have to pay out a huge chunk of cash to a depositing player. They saved themseves 200k and since its not back in the pot we can only assume they consider it won. What a bull crap stunt to pull.

If this is true then something needs to be done and done quickly.

Questions need answering!

In my mind this is tantamount to fraud!

[Muppet]

Just clearing up a bit of misinformation...

How can a jackpot be hit twice on the same day a promotional free chip is running? What are the odds.

Unlikely, but possible. A jackpot can be hit 10 spins in a row. It is equally likely to be hit on every spin, past spins or jackpot value are irrelevant. If the chances of winning are 1 in a million then over a long period the average number of spins between jackpots should tend towards 1 million. And if they are giving away free spins left, right, and centre then the number of spins on the given day were probably far higher than normal, increasing the chances of it happening.

Why give free spins on a not so new progressive that is about to hit?

Again there is no such thing as "about to hit". Jackpots are equally likely to be hit on every spin. Who knows why they chose this one, given that due to the cashout restrictions they were never going to pay a jackpot on any slot anyway?

Thats exactly why they did the promotion. They did it because they knew it was about to go to a lucky winner.

Not true. See above.

On the main topic, they really should put the money back in the pot if they are not going to pay the guy. But really, why not pay him out? It would make for good publicity for Irish Luck and I assume it costs the casino nothing as the progressive is funded by all Rival casinos. If I was a casino manager I would want my players winning the progressives before anything else.

[mojo]

But really, why not pay him out? It would make for good publicity for Irish Luck and I assume it costs the casino nothing as the progressive is funded by all Rival casinos. If I was a casino manager I would want my players winning the progressives before anything else.

I don't see this a good thing. If casinos start paying out on free chips it would be kaos. There would be fraudulent players having a field day. Progressives need to be reserved for real depositing players. It would set a precedent that goes against all t/c's of Rival Casinos and other Rival Operators. I would not be happy if I was another Rival operator to open that door.

Who knows why they chose this one, given that due to the cashout restrictions they were never going to pay a jackpot on any slot anyway?

There should be more thought on this. Who knows indeed. It opens the door for specutlation and there are many theories.

To borrow a quote from CM from a quote from another forum! Here is what the player says:

Best Regards, Hi guy's, wanted to post an update on my jackpot hit from Irish Luck, I got a call 1st thing today, they are putting something together for me, i was told will be more then the $375, he was gonna put it together, but they are working with me and said they were gonna take care of me. I know it ain't a lot of news, like how much lol, but i pretty much let them talk, but he asured me they were gonna take care of me.... But i wanted to tell you guys something and not leave everyone hanging, from what he said they were gonna do something nice for me, i will let you know as soon as i know what the nice is I can say this so far, they are treating me very nice with the talk, but i am like>>>>>show me some money LOL (smile) he said they had over 27.000 people par take in that bonus, just thought i'd let you guys know that little bit of info as well. I will keep you up to date as this go's, i know how it is, i am a crusher too, i wanna know everything lol as soon as i know more i will post. Thanks everyone for all the knid words you sent my way yesterday, you really made my day with the words, the help and i thank you all very much. Keep spinning and may some of my luck come your way. Mike

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...t-today-4.html

From my previous post, what is going to happen now? I am watching very closely as are many others. It continues to be speculation HOWEVER there is a real disaster brewing.

[Muppet]

I don't see this a good thing. If casinos start paying out on free chips it would be kaos. There would be fraudulent players having a field day. Progressives need to be reserved for real depositing players.

I am assuming by running this promotion that the casino is footing the bill for the progressive contributions of each spin. Its very low cost customer acquisition - I read somewhere they say they had 27,000 players take up the offer. 27,000 players who have sold their names and marketable details to the casino for a few spins. If the casino is happy with this deal then so be it.

All Irish Luck have done now is put a giant skull and crossbones next to their name in the industry. They may be following the letter of the law but its bad business, bad PR, bad reputation management. Obviously their management is a bit thick.

[mojo]

I am assuming by running this promotion that the casino is footing the bill for the progressive contributions of each spin. Its very low cost customer acquisition - I read somewhere they say they had 27,000 players take up the offer. 27,000 players who have sold their names and marketable details to the casino for a few spins. If the casino is happy with this deal then so be it.

Correct me if I am wrong Muppet but the progressive is cumulative of all Rival players and operators contributing. Whether or not the 27k players they generated were 'paid for' is irrelevent. There was a previous pool of contributions that should not be disregarded because Irish Luck ran a promo. To know if it was a fraudulent promo remains to be seen. And analyzed.

[stgeorge]

Congratulations to Irish Luck for running the daftest promotion in some years.

Had them on our review list but no way we're adding them.

Time to review all the Rival bonus terms to see if there are any more funnies I reckon. Someone willing to split the work and we can post a summary here? It's something I have been meaning to do for a while now but haven't had time. If we can split the work it's worth it. Any takers?

[mojo]

There is a real problem with Rivals. It has an effect on the legitimate ones. We need to pay more attention IMO.

http://www.gpwa.org/forum/oh-my-rivals-180232.html

[Muppet]

Correct me if I am wrong Muppet but the progressive is cumulative of all Rival players and operators contributing. Whether or not the 27k players they generated were 'paid for' is irrelevent. There was a previous pool of contributions that should not be disregarded because Irish Luck ran a promo. To know if it was a fraudulent promo remains to be seen. And analyzed.

Absolutely, I agree. This is making all Rival casinos look bad.

What I am saying is if they are running a free spins promo on a progressive slot then they have to be the ones paying for the contributions of their players to the progressive jackpot. So whatever the contribution is per player for 10 spins is what they paid to acquire each player, in addition to any wins they pay out. Smart marketing, because they now have 27000 more players in their database for a very low cost, but dumb from a business point of view to not pay out or reseed the jackpot because when those players find out they won't be keen to return.

Also, they can't exactly go out now and publicise that they had a jackpot winner and make themselves look good, which is why I am scratching my head about them not paying out the winner. A couple of hundred grand of swiped winnings is nothing compared to the damaged reputation and bad publicity they are now receiving.

[Daera]

I remember something odd like this happening at a casino from another software brand a long time ago, RTG I think. And people made a big ruckus that the pot wasn't paid out in full, nor was it returned to the pot. In that case I remember reading that they were unable to put the money back in the pot once it was won. True or not, I don't know.

I don't know how hard it is to get a software provider to put money back into a jackpot game that's been won, how hard it is for the software provider to do, or if they even would. It may not be an option.

If putting the money back in the pot is not an option, then what do you think would be the the best way to handle this situation?

Personally, I think the money should go in full to the winner from Irish Luck, and if not, to the 2nd winner.

[pgaming]

Although I agree with you KasinoKing perhaps there is an alternative view. How would paying players feel about the progressive being paid out to a free bonus player? After all it is the paying wagerer who inflates the progressive.

Maybe freebies should be restricted to non-progressive. An responsible term the casino should implement ASAP.

Just an thought


greek39

[Daera]

What I am saying is if they are running a free spins promo on a progressive slot then they have to be the ones paying for the contributions of their players to the progressive jackpot. So whatever the contribution is per player for 10 spins is what they paid to acquire each player, in addition to any wins they pay out. Smart marketing, because they now have 27000 more players in their database for a very low cost, but dumb from a business point of view to not pay out or reseed the jackpot because when those players find out they won't be keen to return.

I know this promotion went out to existing players. I don't know if it was available to new sign-ups, was it?

So they didn't get a full 27000 new players because all of their existing players also got this. 27000 minus the number of players they already had, IF the promotion was even available for new sign-ups. I don't know.

[Muppet]

Maybe freebies should be restricted to non-progressive. An responsible term the casino should implement ASAP.

All no deposit bonuses that we have done with John from ThisIsVegas and Rockbet are restricted to non-progressives. So this type of promotion is not a Rival-wide thing.

Daera, I assumed it was customer acquisition. I'd be surprised if they had 27000 players already though, being a relatively new casino.

[KasinoKing]

Although I agree with you KasinoKing perhaps there is an alternative view. How would paying players feel about the progressive being paid out to a free bonus player? After all it is the paying wagerer who inflates the progressive.

Maybe freebies should be restricted to non-progressive. An responsible term the casino should implement ASAP.

Just an thought

greek39

I see where you're coming from, but personally I consider that once the free-chip has been given to the player it becomes his money (subject to fulfilling the WR).
As a daily player of online slots myself, I have no issue with the jackpot being won on a free chip.

What I do have a serious issue with is if Irish Luck gets to pocket even 1c of this money which clearly does not belong to them.
Yes I know the T&C's said there was a max cash-out, and as one who always bangs on about people accepting terms or not playing, I don't have a problem with this being enforced PROVIDED the rest of the money is put back into the pot.

The other problem I have is why offer such an insane promotion in the first place?
OK, offer a free chip for progressive play, but don't have a max cash-out.
I know for a fact that 32Red & Ladbrokes have run similar free-chip promos for Mega Moolah with no max cash out, so why didn't Irish Luck?
Either that or run a promo on a normal non-progressive slot instead.

KK

PS: The latest news is that Irish Luck have offered the player $1,375 CASH and a free holiday... instead of $215,000.
No mention about where the rest of the money goes...

[raphnix]

Although I agree with you KasinoKing perhaps there is an alternative view. How would paying players feel about the progressive being paid out to a free bonus player? After all it is the paying wagerer who inflates the progressive.

Maybe freebies should be restricted to non-progressive. An responsible term the casino should implement ASAP.

Just an thought


greek39

greek39 is right. Casinos should always put in their terms to restrict freebies and bonus game plays to win the total jackpot or progressives wins so that other high depositing player won't think been cheated or something.