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  1. #1
    gagnoweb's Avatar
    gagnoweb is offline Private Member
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    Default Liers and Dishonnest

    Here is the story.

    I am working in the french market and i heard some month ago that playtech will close the french market. Here we are, today Playtech did it.

    I talked with my affiliate manager regarding that and he told me: No no, dont worry, you can promote us, we dont close even if playtech will close because we have a way to stay on the french market... He was very sure about that apprentely. He wanted me to put his casino on my website. I didnt do it because i knew that playtech will close the french market... i am not so stupid !

    Today, i received an email from Affeuropoe which say:

    As of Midnight tonight (June 29th 2010) Playtech will stop accepting French Players.
    If you are sending French traffic please stop with immediate effect.
    All Affiliates owed revenue will of course be paid at the end of the month.


    I contact Nir, my affiliate manager on msn messenger. Here is the conversation :

    Alexandre dit : (21:01:47)
    Hello
    Alexandre dit : (21:01:4
    so ???
    Alexandre dit : (21:01:52)
    what a surprise
    Alexandre dit : (21:01:5
    you are stopping the fench market ?
    Alexandre dit : (21:02:00)
    really ???
    Alexandre dit : (21:02:09)
    so you still want me to put your casino on my website now ?
    Nir dit : (21:02:43)
    Dude, you've never wanted to put my casino
    Nir dit : (21:02:43)
    so for u
    Nir dit : (21:02:43)
    it's not that important...
    Alexandre dit : (21:02:49)
    lol
    Alexandre dit : (21:02:51)
    no no no
    Nir dit : (21:02:52)

    Alexandre dit : (21:02:54)
    the problem is not that
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:00)
    the problem is that i told you why
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:04)
    i didnt want to put your casino. Because i knew that playtech will close the french market
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:06)
    and you told me
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:09)
    no,we will stay on the french market, dont worry
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:12)
    dont ask me why
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:15)
    but we will stay
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:17)
    so ?
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:21)
    what can you say now ?
    Nir dit : (21:03:26)
    we stayed don't we?
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:32)
    not for the french market
    Nir dit : (21:03:33)
    2 months more
    Alexandre dit : (21:03:43)
    As of Midnight tonight (June 29th 2010) Playtech will stop accepting French Players.
    If you are sending French traffic please stop with immediate effect.
    Nir dit : (21:03:43)
    but
    Nir dit : (21:03:49)
    when u right u right
    Nir dit : (21:03:54)

    Nir dit : (21:04:44)
    It's all about this regulation issue - which effect both sides

    Alexandre dit : (21:05:11)
    when i told you that playtech will stop. so you ll be oblige to stop too. you told me , no, we have a way to stay ont he french market
    Alexandre dit : (21:05:17)
    which is not true apparentely
    Nir dit : (21:05:32)
    i guess you right mate..
    Alexandre dit : (21:05:3
    i dont care, i ll work with other markets
    Alexandre dit : (21:05:43)
    but dont lie to me !
    Nir dit : (21:05:49)
    i got those news from above mate
    Nir dit : (21:05:57)
    i was told what i've told yyou
    Nir dit : (21:06:12)
    but excellent call by you !!
    Alexandre dit : (21:06:12)
    i knew that, i told you that... you just lied to me because you wanted me to put your casino on my website
    Nir dit : (21:06:14)

    Nir dit : (21:06:24)
    ok
    Alexandre dit : (21:06:26)
    now, i am working with italian market, swedish market and spanish market...
    Nir dit : (21:06:27)
    i am a lair
    Nir dit : (21:06:31)
    no worrie
    Nir dit : (21:06:31)
    s
    Nir dit : (21:06:47)
    either way -
    Alexandre dit : (21:06:57)
    anyway...
    Nir dit : (21:07:07)
    you can say what ever you want mate...
    Nir dit : (21:07:34)
    Playtech decision is final
    Alexandre dit : (21:07:42)
    i know that.
    Nir dit : (21:07:46)
    that's what i can say...
    Alexandre dit : (21:07:54)
    but i repeat, i dont have a problem with the fact that playtech is closing in france...
    Alexandre dit : (21:08:07)
    its just that when i told you that, you told me no no no dont worry... we will stay, you can promote us !
    Nir dit : (21:08:0
    So you have problem with me?
    Alexandre dit : (21:08:09)
    thats it
    Nir dit : (21:08:17)
    ok,
    Nir dit : (21:08:26)
    if you have problem with me personally
    Alexandre dit : (21:08:32)
    i knew that so i am not surprised
    Nir dit : (21:08:35)
    don't work with me...
    Nir dit : (21:08:44)
    im will survive
    Nir dit : (21:08:46)
    promise
    Nir dit : (21:08:55)
    like the song
    Nir dit : (21:09:06)
    i will survive -la la la
    Alexandre dit : (21:09:2
    the conversation has been "copy/paste"
    Alexandre dit : (21:09:30)
    thank you

  2. #2
    affeurope is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Default AffEurope Management

    I don't often find the need to post on forums, but i will make an exception for this.

    AffEurope have been 100% honest and upfront with affiliates through this uncomfortable process with the French market.
    We received confirmation from Playtech that we could continue to accept French traffic for the time being. We relayed this message to all our affiliates and while being careful with the amount of CPA offered we made sure that we offered this service to affiliates as well as revenue share.

    Today, June 29th, the management received a call from Playtech informing us that the whole Playtech network will stop taking traffic as of this evening from France.

    This decision was taken by the PLC of Playtech and not AffEurope.
    Even with the news of this we issued an immediate message to all affiliates informing them of this decision.
    AffEurope also made it clear that any revenues owed to affiliates for French players from both revenue share and CPA would be paid as usual at the start of next month as we always said we would honour all agreements made with affiliates.

    The email written by the affiliate is not only unfair but incorrect. We have always been 100% honest with affiliates and told them what Playtech informed us.

    It is a very sad situation that on the day an account manager has lost 35% of his traffic and earnings that affiliates write messages like this thinking they are the only ones effected by this.

    We have all been affected by the closure of the French market, Nir Katshall has done his job to the best of his ability and has and will always tell affiliates exactly where they stand.

    I hope this clears up this post.

    to be clear AffEurope have left the French market along with all Playtech casinos as of last night but will continue taking all non-French and non-US traffic for the long term.

    Regards
    AffEurope Management

  3. #3
    gagnoweb's Avatar
    gagnoweb is offline Private Member
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    Default

    Oh yes of course !

    You just heard about the playtech closure on the 29 th of june !!
    Wonderfull !

    Well, tell me why 4 affiliate manager i am working with told me that Playtech said 1 month ago that they will closed ?

    Everybody knew that but not Affeurope ? Even me i knew that and i told you ! They sent a note to everybody ( not affiliates but operators...) I even know that Playtech was trying to find a way to stay on the french market with lawers and i am just an affiliate. You want me to believe that you, as an affiliate program, you didnt know about that ?

    Come on...

    Stop thinking that affiliates are stupid !

  4. #4
    gagnoweb's Avatar
    gagnoweb is offline Private Member
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    Default

    Oh, and dont forget to say how you are Respectful with affiliates:

    Here is the part where you are kidding me :

    Nir dit : (21:08:35)
    don't work with me...
    Nir dit : (21:08:44)
    im will survive
    Nir dit : (21:08:46)
    promise
    Nir dit : (21:08:55)
    like the song
    Nir dit : (21:09:06)
    i will survive -la la la

  5. #5
    universal4's Avatar
    universal4 is online now Forum Administrator
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    Default

    Discounting the whole French thing, the part of your statement that bothers me the most is this.
    I don't often find the need to post on forums, but i will make an exception for this.
    I ask then, why are you here?

    It appears to be fairly obvious you do NOT want to talk to us here, unless you feel obligated to because a statement that appears to have a bit of truth to it possibly makes you look bad....

    I am sure that a number of affiliates stated they knew the French market would soon be gone and you chose to not only ignore this but to pretend it wasn't happening and it appears you steered the affiliates ion the wrong directions because you did not heed the warning signs....

    All of that is bad enough, but to not just come out and admit the mistake at this point, and then state that you would rather not discuss anything with us in the forum...."unless you feel obligated"...

    ....well that speaks volumes in reality.

    Rick
    Universal4
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    If an affiliate program is not small affiliate friendly (especially small US Affiliate), then they are NOT Affiliate Friendly!

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  7. #6
    affeurope is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Default

    Thanks for the post Rick and your concern,
    We genuinely thought we would be staying in the French market as we had no need to apply for a skill game license as we dont offer Poker or Sports.
    We were told by Playtech to continue to buy traffic and of course listened to them.
    It was only couple of days ago (June 29th) that we received a call from Playtech telling us that we must pull from France with immediate effect.
    Every affiliate that has sent traffic we have paid, every affiliate that has worked on CPA with us in France and thats 70% of our French traffic will be paid the full CPA agreed (even though we will make a loss on players that have signed up in the last month or two)
    This is a tough situation for everyone who has worked in the French market.

    My quote of 'i dont usually post' was not meant to be taken in a bad way, I personally have very little involvements in forums but was shown this message yesterday, im sorry if you took it in a way that i felt the forums were beneath me, far from it.

    If you want to discuss any issues regarding the French market directly then please feel free to contact me at afffiliates{AT}affurope.com and i will be happy to answer any questions.

    Best regards,
    Affeurope management

  8. #7
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    Wink French Players gone

    Hi there,

    I have been dealing with AffEurope for close to 2 years now, previously City Club before the relaunch.

    I know that Nir as an affiliate manager always has the affiliate managers interest at heart.

    Yes, I had French Players and yes Playtech pulling out came as sudden. At the end of the day, we cannot blame the brands.

    Look what happened when UIEGA hit, brands left and right were pulling out, companies lost market share, and everyone suffered.

    So another market lost to the industry. Well we can always look at brands that are taking players irrespective where they are, or promote the brands that are licensed in that market.

    Today Bwin announced that there Poker product was live and they had their first tournament at 00:30 and it was successful. They got a French Poker Licence. no one operator has a casino license, but a poker and sports betting licence.

    Well I can say, I have a long relationship with Nir and yes there are times that he angers me, but not enough to post in a forum,

    This just displays a negative 'vibe' and creates further animosity.

    We in the industry to assist each other and I say that fine, you get peeved with the operators, but remember its not the individual brand that takes that decision. William Hill (through Aff United) announced that they not taking players and it was immediate and I did not see any posts about that? So NO ONE lost monies with them.

    If I ruffle some feathers, then let me know, as I am also in an industry where you can never learn enough.

    Cheers
    Keep the players coming.

  9. #8
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    Default

    The chat between Nir and Alexandre has really shocked me, whether Nir is otherwise a good AM or not.

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  11. #9
    gagnoweb's Avatar
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    Default

    Yes Playtech called them a few days ago to tell them that they must stop getting traffic from France. Right

    But 1 month ago, everybody knew that Playtech will maybe close it. It was not sure but everybody knews that i ll happened, maybe...

    So why telling me : Yes you can promote us, we will not close, we have a way to stay on the french market even if playtech close it ( but please, dont tell anyone about this...) ???

    How could you explain that ????

    It was not true... they didnt have a way to stay on the french market. they are just liers. They wanted to get traffic ( only on rev share. they refused to give me CPA for french traffic. I wanted to put them on the top of my website for a good cpa deal and they didnt wanted too... Very strange when you are sure to stay on that market isn it ?


    Well.. Believe it or not but i know whith who ll work in the future and whith whi i ll not work.

    That's the good point !

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