Madoff 150 year sentence, to long or to short????

[Shaun O'neill]

Hi Guys

So Bernie Madoff is going to die in jail, do you think 150 years is to long????

Should the judge have passed a sentance that would have allowed him to maybe spend at least the last year or so of his life with his family or was the judge spot on giving him the toughest sentance possible???

Thanks for your comments and votes in advance.

Shaun

[TheGooner]

The sentence and the rhetoric around Madoff are the result of whipped up hype via the mass media that want someone to blame for failed investments.

Madoff ran an investment scheme that started to fail and instead of coming clean and admitting he was a failure he fraudulently kept returns going by using money from new members.

Fraud. Although that was not his original intent. It was an old man trying to keep afloat and (falsely) beleiving that he could get things right when the markets turned.

Interestingly, many investors had already withdrawn from the Madoff scheme, both due to the overall financial situation - but also due to the uncanny steadiness of Madoff's returns - too good to be true.

The investors that remained were the greedy and/or the ignorant - groups that are often "victims" under a capatalist system.

The real perpetrators of the financial crisis remain free wrapped in a cloak of protection and anonimity granted by weathly friends and political favours.

So 150 years sentence for an old man who could not keep up investment returns as the markets collapsed. 150 years ?! WTF ?! Grandstanding judge or political pressure from on high? I'm not sure.

And as for court attendees cheering the sentence - simple vindictive emotion ...

And what do you get for murder? 7-10 years?


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EDIT :
Having said that - it is still massive fraud - and even a 10 year sentence would probably mean the man spends his remaining years in jail - so the extent of the sentence is more about sending some sort of message to others rather than having a literal meaning in this case.

[Betpartners]

I think it was spot on, hope there is no chance of parole.

This man ruined peoples lives, completely ruined them, sure some were rich and can get over it, others were not though, some were charities.

My understanding is this has been going on for 20 years and that he was well aware what he was doing.

Also because sentencing in one category is slack dont mean it need be in others, i agree that murderers get out in less time, so they need to sort that, not cut back on people that steal fortunes and life savings.

I ahve zero sympathy for this man whatsoveer and i am not a vindictive person, but if he ever got out one day you can be almost certain that some of his victimes would still be suffering as a consequence of his theft when he was free.

No sorry i think he deserved all he got

[Chalkie]

Well, whatever he did and how he did it is not part of the vote as such.

Too harsh!

I mean come one what a stupid sentence!

Who lives for 150 yrs?

[Betpartners]

Yeah i they could ahve said 40 years and he would almost certainly be dead before he is released, but depends on parole.

Think the premise behind it was to make it life end of and i dont know the ins and outs of the sentencing criteria, maybe they wanted to avoid him getting out on parole.

But dont feel sorry for him, look at what he did, he ruined peoples lives in a lot of cases.

[Chalkie]

No i certainly dont feel sorry for him.

Just think the sentence is mental!

Is there parole there?

[Betpartners]

No idea

But think that may be why the sentence was so draconian also to negate parole.

but i could be wrong

[matted]

This sentence essentially means he will be behind bars at a max security prison. The rest of his life will be difficult and he will suffer - he will get what he deserves. I hope they put some muscle relaxers in his meal - he'll need it!

[AmCan]

There is nothing i've heard to indicate that his investment business ever was real. Those who saw what was going on and reported to the SEC, couldn't find anyone on wall street that were handling his trades. How could a guy manages billions, later $10s of billions and nobody in the business had seen them trading. It seemed like bernie would have kept on going, but the market collapse led to a huge amount of redemptions, the typical way a Ponzi scheme fails

The reason that he received 150 years instead of say 20, is because he refused to cooperate with the government to explain what was happening and who knew what. Why he would plead guilty and not cooperate, yet care about his sentence? He could of dragged it all on for at least another few years, been just as hated, just as guilty and the same sentence, but spent the years living at home. greedy nut job.

[pompeyrayuk]

150 years for fraud of any amount is stupid when you consider in the UK murder can get you 15 years rape averages 8 years and nonces can be out in 2.

Do those three not ruin peoples lives in a more devastating way after all money is just money and there is always ways n means of making a buck or two.

[pgaming]

This Madoff guy should have been made to walk up and down Wall Street for a year, community service, and then serve 150 years.

JMO

greek39

[ironman2000]

The 150 year sentence for Madoff is a ridicules amount indeed and based on the crime of fraud even more so.

The whole system for passing sentence for criminals should be revamped and brought up to date with today's society.

I do feel for all concerned and their losses, but for some who thought this was a quick way to wealth………….they deserve it in my mind

[Betpartners]

150 years for fraud of any amount is stupid when you consider in the UK murder can get you 15 years rape averages 8 years and nonces can be out in 2.

Do those three not ruin peoples lives in a more devastating way after all money is just money and there is always ways n means of making a buck or two.

I agree sentences for things like murder and so on can be ridiculous but just because murder sentences are sometimes poor does not mean that we should go soft on other crimes.

The answer is not to give people like Madoff a lighter sentence just because murders get less, rather give murders longer sentences etc.

Ironman thats a bit harsh on people that invest in a wall street banker trying to get a decent return to have it all stolen,

Also since when does greed mean that the villian should get a lighter sentence.

Now i am not saying you mean what i am about to say so dont misunderstand what i am about to say.

But it's like a female going out to a disco in a miniskirt and skimpy top getting raped on the way home and a judge given the rapist a low sentence because the girl was dressed provocatively.

My point being who cares if the investors were greedy and not all were, this guy stole billions, not a kit kat from the local store, he has ruined thousands of lives including some charities.

I cannot ahve sympathy for someone like that at all.

[Chalkie]

I have no sympathy for the guy either and dislike short sentences for crimes of any nature.

For instance 4 years ago a local taxi driver ran a 17 year old lad over near me. He did not stop, he carried on for nearly 2 miles with the lad caught under the taxi! After this the taxi driver stopped got out, removed the body (YES BODY) and drove off leaving the poor boys family and friends to grieve their sad loss.

The bastard was caught and sentenced to 4 years of which he served 2 and is now out!

My point in the matter of the 150 year sentence is that it just seems stupidity!

150 yrs FFS!

Is the american justice system designed to scare by way of handing out these silly sentences? Does it need to be that sort of length to give the prisoner the correct priority? Life meaning life yes, but 150 yrs is a little over the top.

On the opposite foot, over here life can mean just 10 years - now thats as bloody stupid too!

Mind you justice over here is pretty damn shit anyway!

Over here, a driver is allowed to drive over the speed limit on a dual carriage, overtake a bus, go back to the inside lane, undertake traffic queing at a pedestrian crossing, hit a 12 year old child on the pedestrian crossing killing her and ruining another familys life! (On that occasion that family was my family as the 12 year old was my 12 year old Melanie).

Some might say that he has to live with the guilt for the rest of his life! When was laughing at a griving parent in an inquest a sign of guilt!

Sorry for the rant and i can assure you that it was not aimed at any comment previously made!

[Betpartners]

Paul apart from the 150 years sentence for Madoff we agree on everything else.

It is disgusting how some can get such pathetic sentences, i can recall tons and tons of cases were the sentences were a joke for all sorts of crimes.

One of the reasons i left my land of birth, dont want my kids brought up in a country who's priorities are so effed up.

Using comparisons we can find a thousand reasons why Madoff should ahve got just 5 years max, but we should not use comparisons and judge each case on its own merits.

Unfortuantly it is a shame that the UK as an example on occasion feels more sorry for the criminal and not the victim and victims families.

So Paul we do agree mate on 90% just the 10% that we disagree on

[Chalkie]

Paul apart from the 150 years sentence for Madoff we agree on everything else.



So Paul we do agree mate on 90% just the 10% that we disagree on

Well i 90% reckon we agree on all 100% of it

Or do i mean we 100% agree on 90% of it?

Oh sod it, we agree on all of it!

Its just the way the life sentence has been portrayed that we dont agree on maybe? Ah but that might be the 10% that we dont agree on?

No i agree 100% that we agree on it all!

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

In Australia the judicial system is based on the UK model.
Though sentencing is just as moronic as anywhere else in the world these days.

A number of years ago when a few high court judges, cops and church people were being busted for paedophilia, most were escaping with no jail time.

Where as petty criminals (90% were drug addicts), got busted for house burgs; car thefts or similar were getting hit with 4 year jail terms.

At the time people began using the phrase "you can fxxk our kids but don't steal our property or the law will fxxk you".

Which really put the irony of sentencing into its true perspective.

In so far as the Madoff case, 150 years is nuts.

However, when a society places a higher value on possessions and money, than it does on human life & or its people, the courts will always follows the general consensus of that society IMHO.



Cheers



Dave

[Betpartners]

You know murder and so on are a different ball game i agree and sentences should reflect that

But when i type in the words "madoff victim suicide" in google and i see how many returns i get it just confirms to me that what this guy did was just so much more than fraud.

Now i agree he never killed these people directly but the damage he has done is so immense and i dont think most people realise this.

Economical crime on the face of it is far less a crime than murder or rape and so on i agree, but thats on the face of it.

When you start to dig deeper to see the consequence of this sort of crime you soon realise that what he has done has such deeper ramifications than what we see on the surface that he deserved the maximum possible sentence.

If that is 150 years without parole held in super max then so be it, anything less is a deriliction of duty.

People have killed themselves, people lost homes, lost jobs, charities lost money and so much more, what is the justified sentence for someone that does all that?

Yes murder sentences should be higher and firmer and other crimes should be punished stronger i at no stage disagree with that.

But 150 years is not harsh, not ridiculous, not nuts and justified imo.

150 years means he nevers sees freedom, never gets a cushy cell in an open prison, and it sends out a message that if you destoy hundreds of lives then this is what you will get.

I wish they would do the same with other crimes also, alas they dont on occasions.

[TheGooner]

But when i type in the words "madoff victim suicide" in google and i see how many returns i get it just confirms to me that what this guy did was just so much more than fraud.

No it does not - the only crime committed was fraud. The flow-on effects are hugely unfortunate - but the reactions of investors are not Madoff's crime.

FFS. The first law of investment survival is DIVERSIFICATION!!!

All this reaction shows that some people with more wealth than common sense had placed more than 20% of their savings with a single institution - and I don't know of any serious financial advisor that would recommend that.

People invested more due to either ignorance or greed or a combination of both. These investors need to take responsibility for their own decisions.

[Betpartners]

No it does not - the only crime committed was fraud. The flow-on effects are hugely unfortunate - but the reactions of investors are not Madoff's crime.

FFS. The first law of investment survival is DIVERSIFICATION!!!

All this reaction shows that some people with more wealth than common sense had placed more than 20% of their savings with a single institution - and I don't know of any serious financial advisor that would recommend that.

People invested more due to either ignorance or greed or a combination of both. These investors need to take responsibility for their own decisions.

erm yes it does, i would suggest you type those words in to google and see what pops up.

You may not hold him responsible and thats your choice, i do and many more people do.

In the same way that certain people die of broken hearts when their loved ones are murdered, the murderer may not have killed them directly but to me he did.

And the blase way you just dismiss the victims means that we are so wide apart on this that debating it is probably futile.

As far as you are concerned it is the stupidity of the victims (tempted to capitalise that and put it in bold, but reckon i get my point across without it) that should take most of the blame.

The Villian here, well lets feel sorry for him, he only stole billions, some from charities regardless of what % that was, he was responsible for the cause and effect that followed and that caused numerous suicides, he was the one that ruined peoples lives.

But that dont matter because the victimes were greedy and stupid FFS

Just thought i would use the FFS, seems to be the fashion.