Mastercard - Speak to your reps NOW.

[nitro]

Firstly you've got the hassle to buy them and then you have to do the funding/withdrawals via international bankwires or something like that so it's way to cumbersome...(and could be screwed up anytime by visa/mc of course)

[TheGooner]

Could US players use pre-paid cards (mastercard and visa both offer them) that were bought abroad?

If so, a simple solution could be for somebody to start importing them for this use. Or is this a dumb idea?

It's not a dumb idea - but it's got the same problem as Nitro's idea - in that it requires thinking and planing beforehand - rather than getting online searching for a casino and playing tonight.

Joe Public has to go out and specficially purchase this card with an idea of joining an online gambling site in his mind. And if Joe Public has read that they're designed for gambling use - and that's a commonly held notion - then you'll find that there are few major outlets that will sell them.

Again - it's a solution that will work for hard-core regulars, but will have problems getting pentration into the general public.

Additionally if there is any sort of fee attached (ie it costs $105 to buy a card with $100 credit on it) then it's going to meet consumer resistance.

So without a profit motive for the retailer - and with the threat of UIGEA hanging over distributors heads - the people that really need to do this are the offshore gambling instituitons (or an umbrella company) - as it's in their interest to propogate payment methods but they're hardly likely to set-up confiscateable assets in the US are they?

[Caruso]

Someone tell Pokerstars TheTimesOnline has libelled them:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle7015815.ece

Operators including PokerStars which continue to defy the US ban have been hit by a crackdown on internet gambling payments by Mastercard and Visa, the credit card companies.

[nitro]

It's not a dumb idea - but it's got the same problem as Nitro's idea - in that it requires thinking and planing beforehand - rather than getting online searching for a casino and playing tonight.

That's not true - it requires next to no thinking and planning beforehand. The only difference is that you do not do let say a bankwire directly to a moneybookers bank account to do the funding but use an exchanger's bank account instead. It would actually improve the situation for US gamblers heavily because they would have a lot more payment options that they have now and can choose from at a cheaper cost because it's technically not a gambling transaction. The problems are how the banking sector would react to the idea of an "exchanger" and especially the regime to a payment system that cannot be controlled by the goverment - this seems to be the biggest problem because e-gold (the first company of this kind that is located in the US) was raided by US authorities a while ago under bogus claims so it looks like that the regime kind of dislikes the idea of uncontrolled money flow.

As far as the other idea goes it's simply far too much hassle for Joe from the public to order a credit card with the only intention to fund online gambling so only hardcore gamblers would go for it.

[arkyt]

The only difference is that you do not do let say a bankwire directly to a moneybookers bank account to do the funding but use an exchanger's bank account instead.

I think its the wrong approach to look for ways around the fence - if they put up a fence (wether they are right or not) its because they don't want you in. If you look and find a way around the fence you aren't going to be looked at as a friend, but instead a foe.

This industry has been doing this for years now - spending loads of time and effort to find ways to get around obstacles instead of working harder to eliminate those obstacles. IMO that makes the industry look crooked.

Get the job done and get it done the right way and we will all be better off for it!

[joeyl]

Normally agree with you Arkyo. You try appeasing this uigee mob with sound logic and you're just racing to get to the bottom.

Viva Las Vegas. When they shut it down, then they can ban baccarat.

You'll be back on the hooch over there if you're not careful.

[nitro]

Get the job done and get it done the right way and we will all be better off for it!

Just look at a typical state run lottery over here in Europe where a goverment collects half of the money that was put in by the gamblers. This rip off is a "job" done the right way - as a goverment understands it - because the payout rates could be like 90-95% if the lottery would be setup properly via online gambling. The current "legalization" trend aims to prevent this kind of development and you'll for sure not be better off!

[arkyt]

Just look at a typical state run lottery over here in Europe where a goverment collects half of the money that was put in by the gamblers. This rip off is a "job" done the right way - as a goverment understands it - because the payout rates could be like 90-95% if the lottery would be setup properly via online gambling. The current "legalization" trend aims to prevent this kind of development and you'll for sure not be better off!

I agree its not right, but as long as they are in control what they say goes. Same boat the sites like GPWA / CAP - both HUGE cash farms spending money like it grows on trees at conferences every 3-4 months. As long as the majority sit by and ignore their parties - they will continue to have them - doesnt mean they are right. In fact they truly dont help the majority in this industry - they benefit a few. They participate not to help all, but to help themselves. Until the masses stand up and take back government / what ever else that fits the bill, we can expect to continue to be pissed on.

[Captain]

Fuck, I am sick with the whole fucking mess. I wished we could go back to the time we did not have this UIGAC or what ever the fuck the spelling is. It has destroyed me on top of everything else.

I still love my friends here in this industry that has been there in my darkest day.

[nitro]

I agree its not right, but as long as they are in control what they say goes.

This is not the case here. A goverment is not able to control the internet and the licencing jurisdictions. Given the model presented above it will be next to impossible for a goverment to control the flow of money. Only if you have the option to stay or go "illegal" when you like it to you will be able to go for a legalization process later on that will not end up being ripped off but for one where you will be able to dictate the conditions.

[Caruso]

I think its the wrong approach to look for ways around the fence - if they put up a fence (wether they are right or not) its because they don't want you in. If you look and find a way around the fence you aren't going to be looked at as a friend, but instead a foe.

This industry has been doing this for years now - spending loads of time and effort to find ways to get around obstacles instead of working harder to eliminate those obstacles. IMO that makes the industry look crooked.

Yes, I agree with this. There is a lot of blaming the US admin going around, but let's not forget that casino's have been trying to play them for fools by recoding the transactions, and whatever else, to get around it. And the player doesn't know this, he just uses his card, and if it goes through, OK, if it doesn't, OK again. He doesn't know the games the casino is playing to get his transaction through.

But this will come back to bite the player, who is not to blame.

[nitro]

Yes, I agree with this.

The companies who will go for the current "legalization/rip off" trend will not be able to compete with the "illegal" sector and will go under like a stone.

[Emily Parker]

Hi I’m Emily from AffRevenue affiliate program (Rich casino).

Just thinking of sharing you with what I know about this issue.

Both Visa and MC ceased processing only un-coded transactions but coded ones still works.

In case the casino has other channels and can process also un-coded CC transactions there are 50 / 50 chances for the deposit to go through.


I think the most important thing casinos and webmasters can do now is convincing players to open e-wallet (ewalletxpress, usemywallet).

This is not an easy task to do and most players hate the "bureaucracy" and fees (although we offer players to pay them back the fees).

I hope Visa and MC will change their mind soon :-{

[nitro]

I think the most important thing casinos and webmasters can do now is convincing players to open e-wallet (ewalletxpress, usemywallet).

I think the most important thing casinos and webmasters etc. can do now is to go for another payment processing model, because:

This is not an easy task to do and most players hate the "bureaucracy" and fees (although we offer players to pay them back the fees).

it's easy for the FBI or whoever to pull the plug there and the game is over...

[NicolasJohnson]

This is just a quick note to let affiliates know that Regal Affiliates will not charge affiliates for MasterCard Processing losses. To see my full statement, please check the link below:
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/vegas-rega...tml#post587121

[oc+]

R.I.P. Online Gambling.

[arkyt]

R.I.P. Online Gambling.

I cant imagine many casinos not feeling some pain if/when the CC companies start freezing money and forcing chargebacks on all transactions the last X number of days. This could get really ugly.

[nitro]

I cant imagine many casinos not feeling some pain if/when the CC companies start freezing money and forcing chargebacks on all transactions the last X number of days. This could get really ugly.

The real pain will come once it is "legalized" because this way a sharp crackdown can be justified against the "organized crime". This WILL get really ugly but it's not too late yet to counter this trend because this development is still in its infancy...

[nitro]

Here is the proof:

http://www.kasyna.com.pl/hazardwpolsce.php (polish)

Short summary: The polish finance ministry prepares a bill that aims to introduce UIGEA like measures and an internet censorship system similar to the estonian one to fight online casinos allegedly to protect underage gamblers but in reality to establish a state monopoly on igaming of course (it's worth to put this article into a translator because it's brutally honest).

[bb1web]

recoding the transactions, and whatever else, to get around it. And the player doesn't know this, he just uses his card, and if it goes through, OK, if it doesn't, OK again. He doesn't know the games the casino is playing to get his transaction through.

I disagree with that if talking on a majority basis.

I think players these days are pretty savvy. While there will always be those who stumble into something unknowingly, i think on the whole that players are pretty savvy to understanding that they won't be getting paid back via their credit cards, and have been for some time.

With that knowledge having been around for a while, I don't think it will be that much of a leap for them to figure out that the casinos are going to attempt to run the deposit thru using whatever means necessary which would include the games the Caruso is speaking of ... IF by games you mean the casinos charging off-beat numbers, such as avoiding a $500 number in trade for $499 etc. And that on the statements it might say red wagon purchase.

but ya I think most players while perhaps momentarily surprised when they see the discrepancy in the numbers and that they don't recognize the name next to the number, that it won't take them long to figure it out. just my opinion.