My problem with this RTG stats

[mojo]

This is so hurtful to me. When this casino launched I sent 70 new depositing players in the first couple months. Great! We all did great.

Now, for the past year or two or three, for every deposit I see a withdraw of at least that amount plus more.

Not much I can say except to share. I bring players but I'm told not enough players. However, my players deposit thousands. See for yourself. This is only the last six months. It's been going on for years!



Sorry for the distorted image. Maybe Anthony can help me with that.

There is 45k in deposits since Dec but there is much much more from the past years. Every time there is a deposit, there is a withdrawal. I have made about 3 or 4k on 60k in deposits. It doesn't happen that you get that amount of deposits and that amount of commission! We all know that. If I showed you the screenies of the deposits/withdraws on a breakdown on a daily basis you would be amazed.

How does one run a casino where the withdraws are more or equal to the deposits month after month for years? At one time I was earning from 5 to 20k a month from this program. I was told I don't bring enough players and that this was ONE player and was playing KENO!!! Depositing thousands and withdrawing thousands more.
I have the mails, and the screenies of my complaints for over yearS of 'every other day withdrawals' from ' ONE Player".

He is so popular at conferences, I will be blackballed now.

I will name this program. I have written the affiliate manager first. It's the right thing to do to allow him to answer first.

I guarentee you he will say I don't bring enough traffic. You've heard that standard answer.

Now I see my thousands in monthly deposits disappearing. Do your really think we DON'T NOTICE??

[GCG]

Mojo I have about 24% commission on deposits calculated for the last 3 months with Affiliate Edge.

Your numbers show a very high % of withdrawals, mine is 9.5% for total deposits.

Looks like you have very experienced players.

[cass]

Hi Mojo,

Your stats does look rather strange considering the amount of deposits made that equals your withdrawals for a fixed period.

It cheeses me off somewhat terribly when affiliate managers tell us you don't bring in enough traffic! As affiliates we work darn hard to bring affiliate programs quality traffic, as in your case 70 players, the affiliate program should congratulate you not give you the cold shoulder! It seems that affiliates are seen as "cash cows" that are only good enough to bring in players, the moment we start making inquiries concerning our stats it would appear like we're overstepping the boundary. We do make inquiries from time to time and we expect professional feedback as to why our stats have shown some inconsistencies for a given period. I've reached a stage where I simply feel I can't trust (although I'd like to) any casino/s no matter how reputable they seem merely based on what I've read here at GPWA, CAP and Affiliate Guard Dog.

Good Luck! I hope you receive proper feedback concerning your stats.

Internet casinos

[Players Luck - Jamie]

This doesn't surprise me at all. Hope you sort this out with them mojo.

[GFPC]

Hey Mojo,

I am just curious! When did these massive downwards stats appear? Wonder if there is a correlation with anything significant.

Wondering as well (just to play Devils advocate) you said its been going on for such a long time.

Was there any reason you continued to push them if your thought process was something was wrong? I am only asking since I have had the same case happen to me with another program and I am wondering the pattern of thought process amongst affiliates when they are in the same boat why they just don't axe programs when this happens.


Your numbers are suspicious !

[AE-Martyn]

Just to clarify this. Paula and I have discussed this maybe 3 or 4 times over the last few months. I have provided detailed information on her account and identified that all these transactions are based on a single player and have not given her any kind cold shoulder. In fact, if the truth be told Paula offered to leave our program but we were unwilling to pay her the $20,000 requested for her account.

We also worked with Anthony, from GPWA/APCW who checked the results after Paula allowed him to access her affiliate account. Nothing untoward was discovered and Anthony gave the all clear. We've been totally transparent with both Paula and Anthony, the independent third party.

Regards the one player comment, what I told Paula was that she cannot rely on a single player and bringing in more would help her cause.

He is so popular at conferences, I will be blackballed now. Go Ask Alex, when he's ten feet tall.
Look at the private section. There is amazing revolutions going on there.

This has nothing to do with anything and why bring Alex in to this?

I will name this program. I have written the affiliate manager first. It's the right thing to do to allow him to answer first.

Yep, thanks for the 1 hour notice at 4:30am UK time.

Do your really think we DON'T NOTICE??

We provide you with a lot of stats, so it likely that you did notice something, although I'm not sure what you are alluding to?

However, as I have said in the past to Paula on email, this player, on the whole is over $67,000 down now! I'd say you are getting your fair share, its just that it comes in dribs and drabs rather than all at once, in one massive pay check. The player milks the bonuses that they are entitled to, so they make regular small deposits, each one with a bonus. The player has been with us for two and a half years and has played the same way all the time. Nothing has changed.

There may be amazing "relolutions" going on in the private section but without access to that I can't address any of that. If there was substance to them either it would habe been brought out in the open or brought to our attention. Keeping things behind a closed door will not help solve things. Raise it with me and we can go through it, whatever it is?

I don't know what else to say, but if you still wish to continue to discuss this please email me and we'll take it from there.

[TheGooner]

Mojo, Your stats do look weird ... but then players are weird ... how else would you explain a player that continues to sink money into an online casino after losing 67K ?!


Typically though - unless you have a solid weight of 20,30,40 regular players you will often see that 1-2 players will skew your statistics from time to time. Especially if they are experienced bonus hunters. Is there any sort of reporting that you can do that show what is happening in your stats excluding that player?

I guess that you are not asking for this player to be de-tagged, because s/he is eventually losing money - and making you money - so what is it exactly that you want the casino to do?

----

Alex, Thanks for providing some solid background detail to the situation, which does help to clarify the situation a great deal IMO. The numbers looked strange and it did sound a bit dodgy, but the additional information does help to explain it.


What MIGHT help would be a report that enables affiliates to see what each player is doing at a casino for a given month. That might already be in there in your report suite - but I've got to admit I find it a bit confusing trying to work my way through the reporting to get useful metrics. Do you have any "canned" reports by player that would help Mojo and other affiliates to clearly see the trends?

[mojo]

At one point I had the exact same amount in withdrawals as deposits. I took a screenie but I'd have to find it. It was like 1543.21 in deposits and 1543.21 in withdrawals. That was awhile ago and that is when the flag went up.

If you look at "intital deposits" those are new players. I have no idea if this is one player or not except what I was told. But like I said, I have brought in many players. Only one is playing apparently.

I've never seen anything like this in all my years.

I've held off sharing this for a very long time because I knew I'd be criticized.

[AE-Martyn]

Thanks Gooner.

I have offered to remove this player if Paula agrees in writing to this, I would then ask RTG to make the changes.

If you do have 1 player generating your stats they can seem weird as you dont know what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. Paula is seeing every single move on a day by day basis, we've nothing to hide, thats why we built a program that give more detail than you will ever need.

The problem here is that the player is depositing and cashing out, regularly. The player also claims lots of bonuses. The player has also been playing for over 2 years. Maybe I need to give our retention team a kick to tell them not to work as well as they are doing!

[mojo]

Thanks Gooner.

I have offered to remove this player if Paula agrees in writing to this, I would then ask RTG to make the changes.

If you do have 1 player generating your stats they can seem weird as you dont know what they are going to do and how they are going to do it. Paula is seeing every single move on a day by day basis, we've nothing to hide, thats why we built a program that give more detail than you will ever need.

The problem here is that the player is depositing and cashing out, regularly. The player also claims lots of bonuses. The player has also been playing for over 2 years. Maybe I need to give our retention team a kick to tell them not to work as well as they are doing!

As I posted above, I knew I'd be criticized. And heavily.

Everyone that I've shown my stats to is absolutly amazed. If anyone would like access, let me know.

[AE-Martyn]

At one point I had the exact same amount in withdrawals as deposits. I took a screenie but I'd have to find it. It was like 1543.21 in deposits and 1543.21 in withdrawals. That was awhile ago and that is when the flag went up.

This sounds to me like a correction for something maybe like a cancelled deposit or a chargeback, or an error made by cashier?

I cant remember if we have covered this before, I think we did but can't recall the detail at this time.

As I posted above, I knew I'd be criticized. And heavily.

Everyone that I've shown my stats to is absolutly amazed. If anyone would like access, let me know.

I haven't criticized you.

[mojo]

This sounds to me like a correction for something maybe like a cancelled deposit or a chargeback, or an error made by cashier?

I cant remember if we have covered this before, I think we did but can't recall the detail at this time.

Yes, I wrote you about it. It wasn't a cancelled dep or chargeback or correction that you advised me of. It was in the old (previous) stat program.

[AE-Martyn]

Yep, I found it.

The stats you mention were cumulative. So you were adding up all of our brands but we treat them as separate. This, as previously explained was a case of pure co-incidence and concerned two brands, Manhattan Slots and Aladdin's Gold. Once I gave you the information on this I got the following reply from you...


"-----Original Message-----
From: Paulas Email Address
Sent: 12 July 2010 18:16
To: CWC Affiliates Martyn
Subject: RE: its mojo

Hi Martyn,

Ok, just wanted to be sure. Thanks for checking it out for me.

Regards,
Paula"

[mojo]

Yep, I found it.

The stats you mention were cumulative. So you were adding up all of our brands but we treat them as separate. This, as previously explained was a case of pure co-incidence and concerned two brands, Manhattan Slots and Aladdin's Gold. Once I gave you the information on this I got the following reply from you...


"-----Original Message-----
From: Paulas Email Address
Sent: 12 July 2010 18:16
To: CWC Affiliates Martyn
Subject: RE: its mojo

Hi Martyn,

Ok, just wanted to be sure. Thanks for checking it out for me.

Regards,
Paula"

I'm not comfortable with posting emails.

Again, the exact amount in deposits/withdrawals down to the penny is what raised the flag for me. I wait month after month for the stats to turn around and they never do.

I am sharing this with others. I find it hard to look at my stats anymore.

[mojo]

We also worked with Anthony, from GPWA/APCW who checked the results after Paula allowed him to access her affiliate account. Nothing untoward was discovered and Anthony gave the all clear. We've been totally transparent with both Paula and Anthony, the independent third party.

Anthonly reported to me that there was something amiss with the way the bonuses were structured. He also found my account strange but I will let him explain if he chooses.

add:

Typically though - unless you have a solid weight of 20,30,40 regular players you will often see that 1-2 players will skew your statistics from time to time. Especially if they are experienced bonus hunters. Is there any sort of reporting that you can do that show what is happening in your stats excluding that player?

I guess that you are not asking for this player to be de-tagged, because s/he is eventually losing money - and making you money - so what is it exactly that you want the casino to do?

I'm not sure how many players are playing Gooner. I'd have to look but when we left the old program I had close to 100 depositing players. Apparently I only have one player playing now. I haven't brought in a ton of players lately but as you can see from the initial deposits there are some. None are staying obviously. They play one day and are gone from my understanding.

From what I understand, none of my players are playing except this one player.

There is nothing I want the casino to do. I'm posting my experience and moving on.

[mojo]

this player, on the whole is over $67,000 down now! I'd say you are getting your fair share,

I'm having trouble with this. I looked at my earnings since March of 2009 and I didn't make that commission for ALL casinos and players combined in the group.

[AE-Martyn]

but you mentioned about 20k months???

At one time I was earning from 5 to 20k a month from this program.

[mojo]

but you mentioned about 20k months???

Once. I think my highest month was only 18k. I rounded up a bit.

Not for the last few years though. I just checked back to march 09 on all casinos and players and didn't even make 30% of that 67k you were talking about with that one player.

[casinobonusguy]

Paula ,
You are obviously having doubts about affiliate edge , may I suggest you try putting another RTG in their place and see the results you get with another group.Don't close your account or give it up with affiliate edge that would be silly.Maybe Martyn can show you different scenarios without this player in the stats ,is he causing you to lose your other revenue?

[mojo]

Paula ,
You are obviously having doubts about affiliate edge , may I suggest you try putting another RTG in their place and see the results you get with another group.Don't close your account or give it up with affiliate edge that would be silly.Maybe Martyn can show you different scenarios without this player in the stats ,is he causing you to lose your other revenue?

Thanks for the advice Judy. I think at this point it's best to just pick up the pieces and move forward. With the negitive carry over, I'm starting out Aug negitive again. I don't think the answer is to remove the player. Thanks again.