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  1. #1
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Default Please do the right thing

    There is a thread at casinomeister that a person in the US military was on deployment and his minor child used his card to deposit and play without the parent's permission.

    If he can provide proof that he was deployed, I ask that you please do the right thing and refund his money. The thread is here.

    Additionally, he has indicated that no one from Cyberbingo has replied to him despite his reaching out over two weeks ago. I hope that his emails and attempts at contact are not going ignored.

    Please update this thread with status updates.

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    I don't think this their problem to be honest. The child has committed fraud so they should either report him to the police or learn to keep their private details better protected.
    We had the incident with the kid falling in with the Gorilla the other week and now stories like this. Surely it's about time parents learnt to watch their kids?

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    If the site was to accept responsibility and refund the money then they were basically just getting freerolled.

    There is no such thing as a free lunch mate.

    The kid should start working to repay the stolen money. A kick up the ass may be in order too.
    Last edited by pokeraussie; 7 June 2016 at 11:26 am.

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    If you have a merchant account which accepts credit cards it's always your responsibility as the holder to make sure the correct person is using the card, it does not matter if it's a child, a hacker, or some bag snatching fraudster all credit card transactions have a risk which has to be lowered when owner is not present to approve the transaction. in this case i would advise the person who has lost the money to file a charge back.. all he needs to do is present evidence on why he did not make the transaction no criminal charges need to be filed against his own son.. it's the casinos responisbility to make sure the card is not used fraudulently.. like sms verification or Ěd digital signatures

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderpunter View Post
    all he needs to do is present evidence on why he did not make the transaction no criminal charges need to be filed against his own son.
    Ugh no. You can only do charge backs on fraudulent transactions. His own son committed the fraud so he obv can't do this.

    What do you think happens with charge backs? The bank will conduct an investigation into the transactions. It will quickly become apparent that the deposits were made from the same household.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeraussie View Post
    Ugh no. You can only do charge backs on fraudulent transactions. His own son committed the fraud so he obv can't do this.

    What do you think happens with charge backs? The bank will conduct an investigation into the transactions. It will quickly become apparent that the deposits were made from the same household.
    I have had many merchant accounts to know different.. anyone can charge back then it is up to the merchant to prove he was the one who made the purchase.. it does not matter if it was his son, granny, bag snatcher making the transaction.. the only transaction that is legitimate is the card holder, also as a merchant holder it's easier to refund the $ than get hit with the bad % on record in which your account can be frozen, either way after the charge back and merchant has presented evidence "this is why many casinos require photo ID and address" you still get hit with the 50-100 euro charge back fee. btw banks do not investigate it's so common they hold the merchant holder responsible

    A few years ago I used to have a product in which we sold over 1500 units online per month, my biggest problem was charge backs but i could always prove as we sent the product out by registered delivery so would always have a signature. I have fought enough charge backs to know the reality of it and where responsibility is held

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    I have personal experience with charge backs as well (not receiving an item). Banks absolutely do investigate charge backs, you don't get the money back straight away. Fraud would cost them a lot of money every year of course they take it very seriously, they would have a department specifically for this. I would absolutely not be doing a charge back in this situation. This should be resolved between him and his son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeraussie View Post
    I have personal experience with charge backs as well (not receiving an item). Banks absolutely do investigate charge backs, you don't get the money back straight away. Fraud would cost them a lot of money every year of course they take it very seriously, they would have a department specifically for this. I would absolutely not be doing a charge back in this situation. This should be resolved between him and his son.
    In the USA it works like this, Player sees credit charge on his bank statement.. calls bank on the freephone number says he never made this payment has no idea what it's for.. bank within minutes charges it back "can take a few days for the credit" then "shows up 4-8 weeks later on the merchants account" from this point it's up to the merchant to supply evidence in the contrary then this is sent for a resolution between the merchant and merchant provider.. it has nothing to do with the bank as they have already followed visa and master card rules, if someone used your card in a store then its the store owners responsibility to make sure signature is correct or that pin has been used.. it is never the banks responsibility nor do they lose money from it.. always merchant holder.. if you have the privilege of accepting credit cards its your responsibility to make sure that they are not being used fraudulently.. hence why many use a 3Ds system that requires secondary authentication now

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderpunter View Post
    In the USA it works like this, Player sees credit charge on his bank statement.. calls bank on the freephone number says he never made this payment has no idea what it's for.. bank within minutes charges it back "can take a few days for the credit" then "shows up 4-8 weeks later on the merchants account" from this point it's up to the merchant to supply evidence in the contrary then this is sent for a resolution between the merchant and merchant provider.. it has nothing to do with the bank as they have already followed visa and master card rules, if someone used your card in a store then its the store owners responsibility to make sure signature is correct or that pin has been used.. it is never the banks responsibility nor do they lose money from it.. always merchant holder.. if you have the privilege of accepting credit cards its your responsibility to make sure that they are not being used fraudulently.. hence why many use a 3Ds system that requires secondary authentication now
    This article defines "unauthorized use" http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...arges-1279.php

    "Federal law defines it as "the use of a credit card by a person, other than the cardholder, who does not have actual, implied, or apparent authority for such use, and from which the cardholder receives no benefit."

    I would say in this case the cardholder is receiving a benefit, because if his son would have won money, it is credited to the cardholder's account.

    Also, "some card companies, including Bank of America and Capital One, specify that fraud protection applies only when credit cards are lost or stolen."

    In this case, the card was neither lost or stolen.

    Let me ask you this. What do you think will happen when during the investigation it becomes apparent the deposits came from the same household? Don't just say they don't investigate because that's not true at all.
    Last edited by pokeraussie; 7 June 2016 at 12:41 pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeraussie View Post
    This article defines "unauthorized use" http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...arges-1279.php

    "Federal law defines it as "the use of a credit card by a person, other than the cardholder, who does not have actual, implied, or apparent authority for such use, and from which the cardholder receives no benefit."

    I would say in this case the cardholder is receiving a benefit, because if his son would have won money, he is cashing out back to the method used to deposit.

    Also, "some card companies, including Bank of America and Capital One, specify that fraud protection applies only when credit cards are lost or stolen."

    In this case, the card was neither lost or stolen.

    Let me ask you this. What do you think will happen when during the investigation it becomes apparent the deposits came from the same household? Don't just say they don't investigate because that's not true at all.
    There wont be an investigation as taking credit card payments for the use of gambling is illegal btw January 2014 when the Federal Trade Commission ordered Apple to pay out a minimum of $32.5 million to reimburse parents for unauthorized mobile app purchases made by their kids. "Whether you're doing business in the mobile arena or the mall down the street, fundamental consumer protections apply," said FTC Chairwoman Edith Ramirez in a statement. "You cannot charge consumers for purchases they did not authorize." and also

    "Billy Pinilis, a New Jersey-based consumer fraud lawyer, says that in the United States, the law doesn't distinguish between a kid buying virtual coins in an app or pilfering your credit card from your wallet to go on a shopping spree -- or for that matter, a thief taking your wallet from your car. An unauthorized purchase is an unauthorized purchase. That, says Pinilis, could have rendered the Apple-FTC settlement moot. "You could make the argument that [the FTC] didn't do anything for consumers. Consumers weren't liable for these charges anyway. What the FTC did was benefit the credit card issuers."


    What's written on paper is not always the reality and I am telling you about my own experiences and also others I know that also own merchant accounts. legally the credit card is for use of the holder, again the responsibility is with the merchant holder to verify that the correct person is using the card otherwise anyone could just use a card and the charge backs would become irrelevant, have you ever wondered why few gaming companies use American Express? because you have 180 days in which you can apply for a charge back

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    I can tell you that i've faced the same issue with a gaming company i'm partner in, for the record it's European based/licensed. Many of our ''chargebacks'' came from Asia, and we could do nothing about it. Our bank (HSBC) told us to tighten up security, and avoid taking deposits by such methods from certain countries!

    With regards to the starting post, you can see it two ways. The first is theft from the son (because that's what it is), and the second gaming companies pay if they lose. For me their is no difference in credit cards or cash. I go to the restaurant and i either pay with money or plastic. For me the son taking cash or credit card is theft, but it's the same thing!

    How old was the son? - i mean adolescent in the States can be 15 or 20, because you can drive at the younger age but not drink a beer!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderpunter View Post
    There wont be an investigation as taking credit card payments for the use of gambling is illegal btw January 2014 when the Federal Trade Commission ordered Apple to pay out a minimum of $32.5 million to reimburse parents for unauthorized mobile app purchases made by their kids. "Whether you're doing business in the mobile arena or the mall down the street, fundamental consumer protections apply," said FTC Chairwoman Edith Ramirez in a statement. "You cannot charge consumers for purchases they did not authorize." and also

    "Billy Pinilis, a New Jersey-based consumer fraud lawyer, says that in the United States, the law doesn't distinguish between a kid buying virtual coins in an app or pilfering your credit card from your wallet to go on a shopping spree -- or for that matter, a thief taking your wallet from your car. An unauthorized purchase is an unauthorized purchase. That, says Pinilis, could have rendered the Apple-FTC settlement moot. "You could make the argument that [the FTC] didn't do anything for consumers. Consumers weren't liable for these charges anyway. What the FTC did was benefit the credit card issuers."


    What's written on paper is not always the reality and I am telling you about my own experiences and also others I know that also own merchant accounts. legally the credit card is for use of the holder, again the responsibility is with the merchant holder to verify that the correct person is using the card otherwise anyone could just use a card and the charge backs would become irrelevant, have you ever wondered why few gaming companies use American Express? because you have 180 days in which you can apply for a charge back
    Spot on with this.

    Please note, my agreeing with this does not mean the son doesn't need a kick in the ass (he does). However, the legal reality is in fact stated above in the US. CB should open a dialogue and look for a way to make right. Ignoring the issue is the wrong posture if in fact the OP in that thread is telling the whole truth.

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    I do not think the OP is telling truth. There is the heartbreaking story with cancer + gambling loss = red flag. Even if it were true, he can not take responsibility for the brat he raised?

    Let he does the chargeback, if he wishes, but why should the casino bother?
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    Very strange story... And what about verification process from CB? someone sent the doc's, copy of credit card's, ID ?

    Anyway, this man should write not to the CB, directly to the bank and after they will open a charge back case, then he can send them the evidences of all this story and they will handle it with CB directly. If they will find a real proof, then they can charge all money back, officially. Not even a half.
    Now this is sounds very unreal for me, what this man doing

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    Hello Everyone!
    Please understand that we actually have replied back to the player regarding his allegations of fraudulent use of his account by his own son, but many things here are inconsistent and suggest that his this is potentially a fictitious situation.
    1. The account had been opened in February 2015. It does look odd, to say the least, that it took over 1 year of player activity before he contacted us regarding the account and the transactions made.
    2. The account was verified at our end and we do hold a copy of a valid driver’s license in the account holder’s name.
    3. His son had access to his credit card and was able to spend money throughout a one year period without these payments being investigated on his card statement. If the son was to use his card for playing at our site, then it is reasonable to think that he would have made purchases elsewhere as well.
    As a reputable gaming site we take player verification seriously and all player details are verified in accordance with legal requirements. All details of the card and driver’s license were provided and if this was done by his son, then it is his responsibility to have kept these valuable documents safe and secure.
    However, on this occasion we will make a gesture of good will towards the player and have agreed to make repayment of half the deposits made to this account. We would like to point out that there was no wrong doing on our behalf and that this is purely a gesture of good will from ourselves.

    Kind Regards
    VistaGaming Team.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    There is a thread at casinomeister that a person in the US military was on deployment and his minor child used his card to deposit and play without the parent's permission.

    If he can provide proof that he was deployed, I ask that you please do the right thing and refund his money. The thread is here.

    Additionally, he has indicated that no one from Cyberbingo has replied to him despite his reaching out over two weeks ago. I hope that his emails and attempts at contact are not going ignored.

    Please update this thread with status updates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VGAlady View Post
    Hello Everyone!
    Please understand that we actually have replied back to the player regarding his allegations of fraudulent use of his account by his own son, but many things here are inconsistent and suggest that his this is potentially a fictitious situation.
    1. The account had been opened in February 2015. It does look odd, to say the least, that it took over 1 year of player activity before he contacted us regarding the account and the transactions made.
    2. The account was verified at our end and we do hold a copy of a valid driver’s license in the account holder’s name.
    3. His son had access to his credit card and was able to spend money throughout a one year period without these payments being investigated on his card statement. If the son was to use his card for playing at our site, then it is reasonable to think that he would have made purchases elsewhere as well.
    As a reputable gaming site we take player verification seriously and all player details are verified in accordance with legal requirements. All details of the card and driver’s license were provided and if this was done by his son, then it is his responsibility to have kept these valuable documents safe and secure.
    However, on this occasion we will make a gesture of good will towards the player and have agreed to make repayment of half the deposits made to this account. We would like to point out that there was no wrong doing on our behalf and that this is purely a gesture of good will from ourselves.

    Kind Regards
    VistaGaming Team.
    And this just proves pretty much what I thought that it's all lies. I'm sorry to say bu there probably is no wife with Cancer and probably not even a thieving son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sportaffiliate View Post
    And this just proves pretty much what I thought that it's all lies. I'm sorry to say bu there probably is no wife with Cancer and probably not even a thieving son.
    That post neither proves nor disproves anything. Even the "VG Team" states above potentially fictitious situation.

    Either way, the key for me is/was the dialogue. The post went public and the claim "no response" was issued. In this case, there needed to be an open dialogue.

    Thanks to VG for righting this.

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