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  1. #1
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Default ROME Partners SPAM

    CRONIC SPAMMING AFFILIATE


    info.private-slots.com/u/gm.php?prm=MVEF1Sp1qv_129145407_212734_189917

    info.private-slots.com/u/nrd.php?p=MVEF1Sp1qv_189917_212734_1_2

    Redirects > romecasino.com/index.php?sourceID=1015712


    STOP THIS PIECE OF DUNG !!! CLOSE THEIR ACCOUNTS & FORWARD ME THE MONEY!

  2. #2
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    Ask an AM at Rome, They're helpful and might talk the affiliate to stop this BS.

    I have never had a problem with their AM's and if you like I can send them an email.

    /Hakan

  3. #3
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakank View Post
    Ask an AM at Rome
    Well if GPWA required their sponsors to maintain their - paid for - forums; programs like this might actually respond to affiliate issues in a timely manner.

    GPWA does publish a code of conduct, but its clear to me its not enforced.

  4. #4
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Possibly Rome doesn't know they have a forum or just doesn't want to reply in public ... heres what they said in a PM.

    "The affiliate in question actually does internal marketing for us, and he mails our own database. "

    WOW - so they gave an affiliate access to their database - WTF!?!?!?

    FYI - I have never signed up at Rome Casino, so I wouldn't be on their list.

    GPWA - is this really reponsible conduct as outlined in the GPWA COD?

  5. #5
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Arrow From Noah

    Hello arkyt,

    I apologize for not responding sooner, I was on a short leave and was just now informed of this, then I needed a little time to find out what's going on.

    This affiliate works with us on promotional campaigns, we at times give him emails from our INTERNAL database (our players do agree to be emailed by us and can be removed from any mailing list immediately).

    However, we have a matter here of someone apparently being mailed that is not on our internal database and should not be on our promotional events. That shouldn't be and I do apologize, this was not set up with our knowledge.

    So we will be talking to the affiliate and trying to find out how this occurred and if he/her is somehow reaching players that are not Rome players. If this is true it will be stopped immediately and our future relationship with this affiliate re-examined. We have had no past problems with this affiliate but we do not condone spamming of this nature. We will update when things move on this issue, and again apologize for the hassle and my delayed response.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah







    Quote Originally Posted by arkyt View Post
    CRONIC SPAMMING AFFILIATE


    info.private-slots.com/u/gm.php?prm=MVEF1Sp1qv_129145407_212734_189917

    info.private-slots.com/u/nrd.php?p=MVEF1Sp1qv_189917_212734_1_2

    Redirects > romecasino.com/index.php?sourceID=1015712


    STOP THIS PIECE OF DUNG !!! CLOSE THEIR ACCOUNTS & FORWARD ME THE MONEY!

  6. #6
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    Whoa!

    So you are giving your email list of players to an affiliate? There are so many things wrong with this...

    This affiliate has access to your entire player database? So he can essentially send emails to these players promoting any casino he wants. Even if you now decide to change this policy, he has all your players email addresses. I just can't think of one good reason for giving an affiliate access to your database.

    Frankly, I'm stunned.....
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
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  8. #7
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Arrow From Noah

    Hello,

    Please do not jump to conclusions - in no point did I say we share our entire database. I said we gave him specific lists for very specific promotions for very specific player classes, mostly no more than a few dozen. The affiliate is not allowed to send for any other casinos. We have had no reason to think that is the case with this person as we have not had problems with them in the past.

    There are many affiliates running websites with forums that require players from many casinos to enter their email details, they are also expected not to spam people who are not on a specific promotion. We have to have some trust in our business dealings.

    This said, we are of course investigating whether this affiliate is doing something that violates this principle.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah





    Quote Originally Posted by thepokerkeep View Post
    Whoa!

    So you are giving your email list of players to an affiliate? There are so many things wrong with this...

    This affiliate has access to your entire player database? So he can essentially send emails to these players promoting any casino he wants. Even if you now decide to change this policy, he has all your players email addresses. I just can't think of one good reason for giving an affiliate access to your database.

    Frankly, I'm stunned.....

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahromecasino View Post
    Hello,

    Please do not jump to conclusions - in no point did I say we share our entire database. I said we gave him specific lists for very specific promotions for very specific player classes, mostly no more than a few dozen. The affiliate is not allowed to send for any other casinos. We have had no reason to think that is the case with this person as we have not had problems with them in the past.

    There are many affiliates running websites with forums that require players from many casinos to enter their email details, they are also expected not to spam people who are not on a specific promotion. We have to have some trust in our business dealings.

    This said, we are of course investigating whether this affiliate is doing something that violates this principle.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah
    Well no, here is what you said,

    This affiliate works with us on promotional campaigns, we at times give him emails from our INTERNAL database (our players do agree to be emailed by us and can be removed from any mailing list immediately).
    And I still have a major issue with this practice regardless of how many email addresses you are turning over to this affiliate. Your players agreed to receive emails from your company, not from an affiliate of your company. IMO - this is a breach of player confidentiality.

    I don't quite understand what the affiliate gets out of this relationship. If the players are already tagged to your casino directly or through another affiliate, what's in it for him?

    This whole thing sounds a little fishy to me....
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
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  11. #9
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Arrow From Noah

    Hi,

    What we get out of it is simply utilizing the affiliate for his email sending, he has systems set up for it and on a few occasions he helped us send some promotions to players.

    As long as the affiliate guards his business practices it is no different than using an email company or service, to which many casinos give large lists of emails every day to do the sending for them.

    As I said, a certain amount of trust has to be there in order to conduct business. Our players did not receive anything we did not write up ourselves and we have not had any complaints from them to this effect or as a result.

    The complaint we have here is that someone other than our players was mailed, and that we need to investigate. Any help the player involved can give us (and we of course respect his decision not to share further details) will be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers

    Noah


    Quote Originally Posted by thepokerkeep View Post
    Well no, here is what you said,



    And I still have a major issue with this practice regardless of how many email addresses you are turning over to this affiliate. Your players agreed to receive emails from your company, not from an affiliate of your company. IMO - this is a breach of player confidentiality.

    I don't quite understand what the affiliate gets out of this relationship. If the players are already tagged to your casino directly or through another affiliate, what's in it for him?

    This whole thing sounds a little fishy to me....

  12. #10
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    1. You are giving your player data base to an affiliate who is essentially our (meaning your other affiliates) competition. I'm definitely not alright with that and am thankful I'm not working with your program.

    2. Your players aren't complaining because they don't know you're sharing their details with a third party.

    3. I don't understand why your company would even consider sharing player details with a third party. It's a simple process to set up your own internal email system. The players are the lifeblood of the casino - why would you even think about sharing their data with an outsider?

    4. Can you guarantee that this trusted affiliate is not using your database for his own gain? Or won't do so in the future?

    5. What about the ethics of what you're doing? When players sign up for your emails, they assume you're not going to sell or share them with anyone else... you're probably breaching your own T&C's.


    As long as the affiliate guards his business practices it is no different than using an email company or service, to which many casinos give large lists of emails every day to do the sending for them.
    It's very different in my opinion. An affiliate has a vested interest in your clients that an independent email service provider does not have.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
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  14. #11
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    Parts of Rome aff/player T&C found at: http://www.romecasino.com/termsandconditions.php
    http://romepartners.com/affiliate/fi...om%20Rome.html
    I don't know if the last one only works if your logged in at romepartners.com

    Here we go!


    1.9 "Spam" means emails and messages that are sent by you, directly or indirectly, which: 1]contain false or misleading statements; 2]do not truthfully identify the source or the originating IP Address; or 3]do not contain an online and real time unsubscribe option.
    Parts of Rome player T&C:

    11.
    In acceptance of the said rulings the player agrees to partake in any promotional or advertising events / upon acceptance of any prize and/or winnings that has been accrued from Rome Casino and thereby endorses the use of that players name for the said practice without any compensation or payment to the player., unless this is in violation of any law or ruling that could affect it. For example: Should a Player win a large jackpot and Rome Casino wishes to advertise this, Rome Casino withholds the right to use the Players' real name and post the win on the Casino site, a magazine, or any other media of Rome Casino's choosing
    .

    26.
    Rome Casino is the trade name of the Casino, and the Player has no rights to use or employ such a term, or any other terms, graphics, text, concepts or methodologies, by participating in the Web Site and the material contained therein.
    30.
    Rome Casino is dedicated to the privacy of its players and as such will publish only the first name and last initial of the player when required to do so.
    34.
    Player information is strictly confidential and is a private matter no solicitation or distribution will be given to or by any third party to ascertain the said information regarding a player
    And there goes Rome to the trash..

  15. #12
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakank View Post

    And there goes Rome to the trash..
    I would like to see GPWA take action without further delay against this sponsor who is clearly in violation of the posted GPWA Code of Conduct.

    I've gotten SPAM from this moron before and it wasn't promoting Rome - so either they have multiple list or they ARE using yours for various programs. I wonder if that one is internal as well? Hmmmmmm What SCUM!

  16. #13
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Arrow From Noah

    Wow, You sure are quick to throw us away to the trash Those kind of statements make it hard to conduct an actual professional discussion.

    If you want to get technical - We did not ascertain any information, we had a business partner (who technically is on the Rome Partners payroll like all our affiliates and can be considered related to the company and not a third party) that we trust to send some promotional emails. No players have been spammed nor have they been abused. There has not been a single thread to that effect, and this one is regarding an external player altogether. No names were attached to these emails, no information ascertained. No deposit values even to make the affiliate think this is a commodity.

    I know many casinos use 'cheetahmail' and similar online companies to send their promotional emails. These companies are more a third party then any affiliate that has been working with the company for a long time. This is not our usual habit of course, only for a few specific promotions, and we could have very easily hidden that fact, we chose not to because there is nothing to hide.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah




    Quote Originally Posted by hakank View Post
    Parts of Rome aff/player T&C found at: http://www.romecasino.com/termsandconditions.php
    http://romepartners.com/affiliate/fi...om%20Rome.html
    I don't know if the last one only works if your logged in at romepartners.com

    Here we go!




    Parts of Rome player T&C:

    .







    And there goes Rome to the trash..

  17. #14
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Arrow From Noah

    ok I see that this has gone completely off the professional discussion track. If you have received spam from this affiliate that wasn't Rome, that is not connected to Rome. They may be working with other programs, that is not our concern, and since you were never our player this means our list was not used with other programs or at least there is no evidence of such a thing happening. Please don't make accusations without actually supplying evidence to the fact. As to you getting one of our emails, that is a serious matter and we do not take it lightly. It would help if you could forward us the email (noah@romepartners.com) or provide us with any additional info.

    arkyt, I think your problem is more with the affiliate in question than with us, we have not spammed you, definitely not on purpose, we have not spammed anyone. If this affiliate is really doing harm, then we are looking into it and trying to find evidence of this in response to this thread, we are not ignoring the issue.

    In addition, Calling us names and throwing us in the metaphorical trash make it hard for us to participate in the discussion. I will respond to any new information.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah


    Quote Originally Posted by arkyt View Post
    I would like to see GPWA take action without further delay against this sponsor who is clearly in violation of the posted GPWA Code of Conduct.

    I've gotten SPAM from this moron before and it wasn't promoting Rome - so either they have multiple list or they ARE using yours for various programs. I wonder if that one is internal as well? Hmmmmmm What SCUM!
    Last edited by noahromecasino; 3 August 2010 at 8:18 pm. Reason: spelling

  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahromecasino View Post
    If you want to get technical - We did not ascertain any information, we had a business partner (who technically is on the Rome Partners payroll like all our affiliates and can be considered related to the company and not a third party) that we trust to send some promotional emails.

    I know many casinos use 'cheetahmail' and similar online companies to send their promotional emails. These companies are more a third party then any affiliate that has been working with the company for a long time. This is not our usual habit of course, only for a few specific promotions, and we could have very easily hidden that fact, we chose not to because there is nothing to hide.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah
    Using Cheetahmail or any other professional email company is completely different than sharing your database with an affiliate. Cheetahmail is not in the online gambling business, your affiliate is.

    Your argument that the affiliate is an employee does not hold water, you can't fire the affiliate or take back the data he has been provided access to.

    While the affiliate works with Rome, he also works with your competition and could potentially share your player details with them. Your affiliate also has the ability to use your data for his own gain by emailing non-Rome promotions to those players thus giving him an unfair advantage over your other affiliates.

    Then there's the terms and conditions issue. An argument can be made that you are violating your own T&C's by sharing your player data with this affiliate, raising the question of ethics.

    PS - sorry for the derail Arkyt, but this is a serious issue and needs to be discussed.

    Mods - if you think we have 2 different issues being discussed here and want to split this thread, please feel free do so.

    GPWA - I would really love to have someone (Michael/Steven/??) wade in here.
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  20. #16
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    I also wanted to add that if it turns out that this trusted affiliate is spamming, he is probably not above abusing the trust you've placed in him by using your email list for his own purposes/gain. I'd say it is a real possibility.

    CRONIC SPAMMING AFFILIATE


    info.private-slots.com/u/gm.php?prm=MVEF1Sp1qv_129145407_212734_189917

    info.private-slots.com/u/nrd.php?p=MVEF1Sp1qv_189917_212734_1_2

    Redirects > romecasino.com/index.php?sourceID=1015712
    The affiliate ID is clearly indicated above so it should be easy to determine who the spammer is.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
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  21. #17
    arkyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noahromecasino View Post
    arkyt, I think your problem is more with the affiliate in question than with us, we have not spammed you, definitely not on purpose, we have not spammed anyone.
    You have stated this affiliate is working for you - you have stated you have given your database to this individuals for promotional purposes.

    Technically speaking I guess you could claim you knew nothing about the SPAM, but the idea that you are sharing your database with affiliates escalates this issue ten fold - as detailed by hakank above.

    This is no longer just about the SPAM which you are indirectly AND directly responsible for!

    Quote Originally Posted by thepokerkeep View Post
    sorry for the derail Arkyt, but this is a serious issue and needs to be discussed.
    No problem - thats why I posted the topic - to get what I seen as highly unethical out in the open and discussed, not surprisingly GPWA reps are no where to be seen.

    FYI - I will state it again - I HAVE received SPAM from this site (private-slots) from numerous other programs! I recall seeing other reports about SPAM from this site as well.

  22. #18
    noahromecasino is offline Former AM
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    Arrow From Noah

    Hey Guys,

    After reading what you've had to say and after taking some time to deliberate this issue with upper management, we would like to apologize and accept what you say and admit that allowing an affiliate to send emails as a 3rd party provider is unethical. This will no longer happen and the affiliate will no longer be emailing for our brand.

    I apologize for being defensive with the posting members here at the GPWA I can appreciate that this forum is dedicated to help moderate online gaming operators, players and affiliates alike. This was a poor management decision and as I said before will never happen again.

    If there are any other suggestions or course of action that needs to be taken please advise.

    Kind Regards,

    Noah
    Last edited by noahromecasino; 4 August 2010 at 3:54 pm. Reason: spelling

  23. #19
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    Thanks for the update, Noah. I'll pipe in and advise that I have been spammed by this person also.

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  25. #20
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    FictionNet, will you please forward a copy of the email to Rome.

    "It would help if you could forward us the email (noah@romepartners.com) or provide us with any additional info."
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
    Apply for Private Membership | Apply for the GPWA Seal | Partner with a GPWA Sponsor | Volunteer as a Moderator


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