View Poll Results: RPL% - must be new indicator in affiliate industry.

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  1. #1
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    Default RPL% - New indicator for aff.program?

    RPL% - New indicator for aff.program?

    RevShare % - plan need reform.

    In previous years RevShare % as alway be equal to player loses. Sometime we we could see difference within several %. But no more.

    In present days, multisoft operators have huge Admin Fee, like 20%-35%. In this case the same % RevShare in diffrent casinos may be absolutely diffirent in real.

    For example, i send traffic to Mainstreet Affiliates with RevShare 40%. Good, old, trusted RTG operator. 40% in mainstreet mean that if player lost $100 affiliate get $40 (40%). But in most other casinos 40% mean that if player lost $100 you may get only $30 or $25 or $20.

    I think we need to introduce a new indicator. For example RPL% - real percentage of player loss. I think it will be more informative for affiliates.

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  3. #2
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    Yep, that's required 100%! For example I promote a refshare program with 30% revshare, no negative carryover. After one year of promotion I ended with 1.5Mio Turnover in only 5k Negaming which is about 0.3% of the turnover but should be around 3%! I only earn some pennies because of the no negativ carryover rule. Maybe one month out of 3 or 4 is a lucky month for me.

    In the past 30% refshare was 30% Netgaming Livetime. Today 60% Revshare is something totally unknown. For example what happens if a player wins ? Will they charge you with fees ? Also some programs started with activity rules and change their terms all the time. It sucks!

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    RPL% - New indicator for aff.program?

    RevShare % - plan need reform.

    In previous years RevShare % as alway be equal to player loses. Sometime we we could see difference within several %. But no more.

    In present days, multisoft operators have huge Admin Fee, like 20%-35%. In this case the same % RevShare in diffrent casinos may be absolutely diffirent in real.

    For example, i send traffic to Mainstreet Affiliates with RevShare 40%. Good, old, trusted RTG operator. 40% in mainstreet mean that if player lost $100 affiliate get $40 (40%). But in most other casinos 40% mean that if player lost $100 you may get only $30 or $25 or $20.

    I think we need to introduce a new indicator. For example RPL% - real percentage of player loss. I think it will be more informative for affiliates.
    I have been trying to explain this to affiliates for years. We have called it "true" revshare, but RPL% would be a better description IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    Yep, that's required 100%! For example I promote a refshare program with 30% revshare, no negative carryover. After one year of promotion I ended with 1.5Mio Turnover in only 5k Negaming which is about 0.3% of the turnover but should be around 3%! I only earn some pennies because of the no negativ carryover rule. Maybe one month out of 3 or 4 is a lucky month for me.

    In the past 30% refshare was 30% Netgaming Livetime. Today 60% Revshare is something totally unknown. For example what happens if a player wins ? Will they charge you with fees ? Also some programs started with activity rules and change their terms all the time. It sucks!
    You mention turnover, but revshare is not based on turnover. It is based on player losses. Turnover is the accumulation of bets and can get very high very quickly, even on small deposits.

    We have a model based on turnover. You earn 35% of the margin on each bet regardless of win or loss. So if a player is playing slots, the average margin on slots is about 3.71%. 35% of the margin is 1.3%. So you are paid 1.3% of each bet regardless of win or loss. Players playing slots make lots of small wins that they play back, so the turnover gets large very quickly. If a player is having a winning session, you could earn far more using this model than a revshare model because your commission only goes up. You're not limited to a percentage of what the player has deposited (and subsequently lost). I've seen an affiliate earn $40k from a $1000 deposit before. This is not even a rarity tbh.

    In any case, I think it would be so helpful to have an RPL% because it would show that even though some programs are offering 50% revshare, the affiliate will actually earn less on that 50% than on 35% with us. So bring it on.
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    I agree. It's not important how it's called, however RPL is a good suggestion, but it would be way better if we can easily compare commissions. Now it's almost impossible. 25% at a program can be the same as 60% at another program. At a conference, a program even offered me 100% for a few months.

    I think 8 out 10 affiliate manager isn't even able (or wanting) to explain exactly how NGR is calculated.
    Last edited by Triple7; 11 December 2017 at 5:15 pm.

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    I know that it is stupid to speak for others, but: we all know this is not gonna happen in regulated industry and the bullshit is intentional.

    We are neither customers nor casual citizens, so nobody will help us.
    There is no upper age limit but people over 60 years old are not recommended to trade bitcoin in consideration of price volatility and risk tolerance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renee View Post
    the affiliate will actually earn less on that 50% than on 35% with us.
    And that's the thing these days, a lot of these browser based, multi platform casinos, tout over inflated RevShare figures. Though when the numbers are crunched, that 50% can (and almost always does) drop to a pathetic figure. Take Video Slots for example. Their 40% RevShare in actually real-figures commission crashes to an absurd 6% RevShare or less, in most cases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post

    In present days, multisoft operators have huge Admin Fee, like 20%-35%.
    Sweet, MrGreen have 45%....

    But i can only agree, a new indicator is a good idea..

    Regards

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    An indicator is a nice idea but the truth is that we'll never really know what calculation is being made behind the scene, some even not display the deposits value so the bottom line is that if the program is making you the money you expect at the end of the month this is the best indicator

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshac View Post
    This is good, but audit and RPL% indicator is little be diffirent. From my point of view, our goal is - that affiliate program must post they RPL% on they sites or when they introduced here, on GPWA or on another forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocreditor View Post
    An indicator is a nice idea but the truth is that we'll never really know what calculation is being made behind the scene, some even not display the deposits value so the bottom line is that if the program is making you the money you expect at the end of the month this is the best indicator
    Technicaly operator may hide or untag players and have very honest RevShare plan in the same time.


    RPL% is only one of indicators. Offcourse it can not cover all aspects of the operator's activities. But it make industry more understandable for as, affiliates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshac View Post
    I was just going to say that - the LCB guys have been doing a good job over at AGD.
    onlinegamblingwebsites.com - Formally known as goodbonusguide.
    baldidiot.net - Baldys affiliate blog. Will get updated one day. Maybe.

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    There is a reason that there are only a handful of operators tell you the actual fees they are taking off from gross to net - and aside from NDAs with suppliers - it's not commercially sensitive.

    Affiliates should absolutely be working things out on what their actual rev share comes out as, because headline figures are mostly meaningless.
    Head of Affiliates at Digital Fuel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renee View Post
    I have been trying to explain this to affiliates for years. We have called it "true" revshare, but RPL% would be a better description IMO.



    You mention turnover, but revshare is not based on turnover. It is based on player losses. Turnover is the accumulation of bets and can get very high very quickly, even on small deposits.
    I mentioned the 1.7Mio turnover just to show how small the earning was in the end. In 12 month I had 180.000 in deposits, resulting in only crazy 5.500 Netgaming (combined in 12 month). So I just earned in the month where I wasn't in minus. And that wasn't because of just one big winner it was with avarege winnings.

    A calculation based on turnover like you offer is more fair and transparent for both parties. Average loss of the player is about 3% of the turnover (slots). If you pay 1% of the turnover to the affiliate, yes thats fair!

    The based on Netrevenue model with no negative carryover is nearly impossible to realize because small affiliates with just 2-3 players a month will often land in minus and the program need to compensate that.

    So in the past I had better results with negativ carryover programs. Sounds like nonsense ? Maybe they are more honest.

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    You have hidden deposits, phantom chargebacks and suspect withdrawals... and all the RPL is a good idea the cowboys out there will always find a way to take back, it's really a question of work with a brand and if you make money and it's transparent stick with them, sooner or later these non aff friendly brands will fizzle out

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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeC View Post
    - and aside from NDAs with suppliers - it's not commercially sensitive.
    I know one online casino owner (Softswiss). He is always GPWA member. He is absolutely and 100% open for this questions. He tell all affiliates how many % he pay for Softswiss, what % his AdminFee, what % for payments method. He have NetEnt, Microgaming and many other providers. And i did't hear from him about any NDAs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeC View Post
    - and aside from NDAs with suppliers - it's not commercially sensitive.

    Sorry, may be i don't understand something. But how NDA may protect information that any affiliate may calculate very easy?


    NDA - can not protect the result of a simple arithmetic calculation. If i want to know how is you RPL%, i give $100 to player that sign-up via my aff.link and see what aff.commission i will get. That's all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    Sorry, may be i don't understand something. But how NDA may protect information that any affiliate may calculate very easy?


    NDA - can not protect the result of a simple arithmetic calculation. If i want to know how is you RPL%, i give $100 to player that sign-up via my aff.link and see what aff.commission i will get. That's all.
    You are correct, but the critical part is that I as the affiliate manager have not told you it, so I haven't broken the contract the company I represent has with a supplier. I say this from a position of running a programme that does share its deductions (http://sunbetsaffiliates.com/faq/how...on-calculated/) - except that fee - and the reason for that is NDAs. I'd actually like to share it because I saw some laughably high product fees quoted on another thread on here about a similar topic some time ago.

    My point is to say that operators who say they can't share the deductions because they are commercially sensitive are typically lying - with the exception that they cannot explicitly share what they pay to suppliers e.g. Playtech, Microgaming, NetEnt.
    Head of Affiliates at Digital Fuel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toni View Post
    I mentioned the 1.7Mio turnover just to show how small the earning was in the end. In 12 month I had 180.000€ in deposits, resulting in only crazy 5.500€ Netgaming (combined in 12 month). So I just earned in the month where I wasn't in minus. And that wasn't because of just one big winner it was with avarege winnings.

    A calculation based on turnover like you offer is more fair and transparent for both parties. Average loss of the player is about 3% of the turnover (slots). If you pay 1% of the turnover to the affiliate, yes thats fair!

    The based on Netrevenue model with no negative carryover is nearly impossible to realize because small affiliates with just 2-3 players a month will often land in minus and the program need to compensate that.

    So in the past I had better results with negativ carryover programs. Sounds like nonsense ? Maybe they are more honest.
    Was that with a sports program or casino? I can imagine how it could end up such small netgaming if it's sports and the players are making winning bets, but if that's casino you must have some really lucky players.

    I also think the percentage of turnover is fair. You're making commission from the theoretical profits of the game play. There are many affiliates happy with this model. I'm not sure why more programs don't offer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    This is good, but audit and RPL% indicator is little be diffirent. From my point of view, our goal is - that affiliate program must post they RPL% on they sites or when they introduced here, on GPWA or on another forum.
    The guys over at affiliate guard dog are testing it with real money and a real account. If the program is hiding fees or deductions (or lying about how much they are), it will be easily found this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeC View Post
    My point is to say that operators who say they can't share the deductions because they are commercially sensitive are typically lying - with the exception that they cannot explicitly share what they pay to suppliers e.g. Playtech, Microgaming, NetEnt.
    And that's why we don't remove fees.
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  39. #20
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    I'm not defending casino operators per say , however the game has changed and we as affiliates want to promote regulated brands and brands that have multi softwares .

    Casinos using RTG are great but they can afford to pay the real rev-share because they work on pure NGR with, that's what they pay on Royalties e.g 10-15% and the Hold on most of these casinos is around 70%, so 30% of money goes back to the players and 70% stays in house .
    They of course have processing , marketing , operational costs etc but probably end up with a profit of margin of around 15% if not more.


    A brand working with an aggregator let say everymatrix will pay everymatrix a % of GGR not NRG and then will have to pay for each software provider between 10 - 20% GGR depending on whether its betsoft or Netent branded games , also all bonus money given is classed as real money in terms of GGR.

    The hold on some regulated European brands can be as low as 50 % meaning 50% goes back to the player. Also take into consideration that player value is probably lower in regulated Europe than in Juristrictions that RTG casinos take.

    Im not excusing these programs but i can i understand why they have an admin fee.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlight Cat View Post
    RPL% - New indicator for aff.program?

    RevShare % - plan need reform.

    In previous years RevShare % as alway be equal to player loses. Sometime we we could see difference within several %. But no more.

    In present days, multisoft operators have huge Admin Fee, like 20%-35%. In this case the same % RevShare in diffrent casinos may be absolutely diffirent in real.

    For example, i send traffic to Mainstreet Affiliates with RevShare 40%. Good, old, trusted RTG operator. 40% in mainstreet mean that if player lost $100 affiliate get $40 (40%). But in most other casinos 40% mean that if player lost $100 you may get only $30 or $25 or $20.

    I think we need to introduce a new indicator. For example RPL% - real percentage of player loss. I think it will be more informative for affiliates.

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