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  1. #41
    Caruso is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daera View Post
    So Ben, what is the official reason why the casino refuses to pay this players winnings?
    http://online_casino_news.hundredper...s-with-no.html

    No word from the GPWA why this obviously valid and disreputable-indicative thread was bust out of the main public board and shovelled away down here, I suppose?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushmore Ben View Post
    Both Louise and I are employees, we don't make decisions.
    I have spoken to Casino management yesterday and the decision stays the same.

    I don't call the shots and therefore have nothing more to add.

    Regards

    Ben
    No new evidence has been forwarded, so granted, the decision will be the same. Fair enough.

    The 3rd party evidence that is available in the public domain, belies management's decision, and therefore seems a bit unfair.

    Bryan Bailey seems happy, which is 95% job done. If Rushmore can convince Caruso, management will have this whole episode finally dealt with as far as I'm concerned.

    Until then I remain unconvinced old boy. I'll not be the only one.
    Last edited by joeyl; 11 May 2010 at 9:56 am. Reason: tpyo

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  4. #43
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    Thanks for you all for your supporting comments.

    Mojo just posted at GIA forum that she issued this warning about Rushmore:

    http://gambling-mojo-casino-communit...ew/blog_36.htm

  5. #44
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    Thanks Embalu,

    If Mojos link is loading slow, check back in a little while. She is having some server problems worked out at this time.

    Joe

  6. #45
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    Both Louise and I are employees, we don't make decisions.
    I have spoken to Casino management yesterday and the decision stays the same.

    I don't call the shots and therefore have nothing more to add.

    Regards

    Ben
    I think we all know this Ben. It's no different than with any other affiliate program.

    We are not asking for anything more of you or Louise than we would of any other program.

    You guys are the only liasons we have to your owners, so we have to go thru you guys to get the answers.

    All we are asking you and your owners to do is to tell us WHY this player wasn't paid.

    We are not children that you can simply fluff off and say, "Because I said So"!
    That isn't working in case you hadn't noticed.

    It isn't even a lot of money, so if your owners have a legit reason for not paying up, then just liason their reasons and explanation as to why they won't pay.

    I'm a really fair guy. If I can see it, I will gladly support the casino,...but the interaction thus far is just not acceptable , IMO.

    Just tell us WHY they have reached the decision they did so we can all get on the same page.

    Perhaps Micheal needs to get involved in this on behalf of the GPWA Membership?

    I know I would welcome that!

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  8. #46
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    He might also want to put this back in the forum where I posted it, Unethical Behaviour Reports.

    I mean, affiliates receiving spam, affiliates getting content scraped, that's all unethical.

    Players getting robbed, that's not unethical.

    OK, got that.

    You'll note also that when Terry posted about the recent Ultimate Bet incident, it was also removed to the "affiliate" forum, BUT the "moved" indicator was left in place - see about ten posts down:

    http://www.gpwa.org/forum/industry-buzz.html

    Yet this one was not only shovelled down into this unknown forum, it also had all traces deleted of it in the original forum.

    Why?

    OK, retortical question. We all know why. I'm just highlighting the fact.

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  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCPA View Post
    Perhaps Micheal needs to get involved in this on behalf of the GPWA Membership?
    Assuming Ben & Louise are still absent, maybe we can all meet in Prague to discuss it? Maybe Todd can bring his camera along?

    I'd rather it was handled before that though, but it's just around the corner now.

  11. #48
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    I am not able to find any solid and motivated answer (with arguments & proves)
    of Rushmore, that explains why the winnings of this player were declined.

    I am even more convinced that this player deserves the money he won.

    There are fundamental rules in the online gaming industry that must be followed by every operator. One of them is paying out the winnings of legit players and doing it in time.
    Last edited by casinogamespro; 12 May 2010 at 10:48 am. Reason: mistake

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  13. #49
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    As Caruso advised, I posted a complaint here:
    http://www.askgamblers.com/c-83/rush...gnores-e-mails

  14. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushmore Ben View Post

    Both Louise and I are employees, we don't make decisions.
    Ben, when I wrote to the casino (I am the manager of Gambling Grumbles), its reply was sent to me by Louise.

    If Louise does not have the authority to make decisions, then please arrange for somebody who does to handle the correspondence with Gambling Grumbles.

    It is absolutely ridiculous for me to try to mediate a dispute when the person I am dealing with does not have the authority to make a decision. That not only wastes my time and that of the casino employee, but it also means that the player will not be able to have a fair adjudication of the dispute and the casino will get very negative publicity on Gambling Grumbles and all of the 600 websites of the Gambling Portals Group.

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  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caruso View Post
    He might also want to put this back in the forum where I posted it, Unethical Behaviour Reports.

    I mean, affiliates receiving spam, affiliates getting content scraped, that's all unethical.

    Players getting robbed, that's not unethical.

    OK, got that.

    You'll note also that when Terry posted about the recent Ultimate Bet incident, it was also removed to the "affiliate" forum, BUT the "moved" indicator was left in place - see about ten posts down:

    http://www.gpwa.org/forum/industry-buzz.html

    Yet this one was not only shovelled down into this unknown forum, it also had all traces deleted of it in the original forum.

    Why?

    OK, retortical question. We all know why. I'm just highlighting the fact.

    Complaints for member programs are moved to their appropriate forum. This way the program gets notified of the posts and are more likely to respond to issues in their own forum. Nothing more than that.

    JTodd and myself will be in Prague and will be happy to talk with all parties involved. I already sent a note to Ben.

    Michael will be back from GIGSE at the end of the week.
    I am here to help if you have any issues with an affiliate program.
    Become involved in GPWA to truly make the association your own:
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  17. #52
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    In the future when moving complaints such as this, maybe the redirect should be left in place as permanent.

    If/when the issue is solved, a mod can easily go in and set the redirect to expire a week or month later...after solved....

    Rick
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  19. #53
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    I'm tiired of these type of casino's attitude.

    All I've seen here is this Ben Spiro bloke give it the large to Caruso, because maybe he got a percentage wrong, asking where Caruso get's off.

    Followed by some nonsense walkaway comment because of the Rushmore bosses attitude of "go away little people".

    To remain here, one must pay the players Rushmore, and now I'm complaining.

    Uni, Anthony, Michael. Section 3 please.

    Cheers.

  20. #54
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    Mojo just posted at the GIA that she received a note from Louise stating there was going to be a meeting on this matter and that she would reply back to Mojo with their responses and results.

    Perhaps a little positive movement.

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  22. #55
    Caruso is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    Uni, Anthony, Michael. Section 3 please.
    Good spot.

    Sponsor Companies will credit the accounts of players with bonuses and winnings in accordance with published rules and procedures and will promptly pay players any balance in their account upon their request.
    I wasn't aware GPWA had a player remit built into the terms.

  23. #56
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    I just got back from GIGSE and received an e-mail from Anthony alerting me to this thread.

    A few comments:

    The GPWA sponsor code of conduct requires that:

    1. Sponsor Companies (which are defined as the sponsor affiliate program and any companies that the sponsor respresents) will credit the accounts of players with bonuses and winnings in accordance with published rules and procedures and will promptly pay players any balance in their account upon their request. (From sections 1 and 3 of the code of conduct).

    2. Sponsor will promptly respond to any complaint forwarded by the GPWA or by a GPWA affiliate member on behalf of the affiliate or on behalf of a visitor to a website operated by the affiliate. (From section 4 of the code of conduct).

    3. If the complaint alleges the Sponsor Companies failed to comply with these terms the Sponsor agrees the Sponsor Companies will either provide reasonable evidence of compliance with these terms, or offer a fair resolution of the complaint. (From section 4 of the code of conduct).

    From this it seems pretty clear, given the contents of this thread, that we have a situation where there is not current compliance with the GPWA code of conduct.

    Our general posture when there is a lack of compliance with the code of conduct is to work with a program to faciliate their complying with the terms of the code of conduct. In the absense of progress, we have the right to take actions such as removing a program from our list of sponsors.

    Now that I am aware of the fact that there is a substantive issue here, I will see that we follow-up appropriately with the affiliate program in an effort to reach an appropriate resolution. I'm anticipating some discussion over the next week with a more throrough discussion in Prague in a face-to-face meeting.

    Also, I'd like to respond to the earlier comments about moving this thread from the unethical behavoir report thread to the forum thread for the specific affiliate program. There are a variety of reasons we routinely move threads relating to a specific program into the thread for the program. One of the reasons is that affiliate programs have a responsibility to respond to issues raised in their forum, but not in other forums, so we try to consolidate threads related to a specific program in the programs forum. Another reason is that we want folks looking for background information about an affiliate program to be able to see threads where information about the program is provided. Finally, on a sponsor page we show links to current threads, and we want folks looking up information about a sponsor on the sponsor page to have recent threads related to the sponsor program listed and visible.

    When we move a thread from one location in the forums to another vBulletin lets us set a specific time period a link will remain from the old forum thread location to the new one. We normally do that so we can inform folks who were aware of a discussion in a particular location find it in the new location. Generally we have set such links to be just a few days to help the original poster and anyone else who saw it in the original location know its new location. Once that time period is over vBulletin stops showing the crosslink to the forums don't remain cluttered with cross-links over the long term. However, I can appreciation it can make sense to treat unethical behavior reports differently on that front, so we will set this time period longer for threads moved out of that particular forum in the future.

    Michael
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    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  25. #57
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    That's great to hear Nick....and thanks to Mojo for all the help on this since she (as well as others, players and affiliates) had been working on this for a long time from the GIA....

    Rick
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  26. #58
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    There are bigger issues than affiliate programmes having threads relevant to their ops in their own forum. There is public awareness of unethical behaviour, which is served by such threads residing in the higher profile forum. And then, affiliates reps are easily alerted to any issues relevant to them.

    Board admin can obviously do as it sees fit, but I don't think any public interest is served in bouncing threads into low-profile positions. Leave the thread alone and PM the rep. It's as easy as that.

    The same goes for the latest Absolute Poker scandal, which got bounced out of Industry Buzz, where it absolutely deserved to be.

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  28. #59
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    You make a pretty good point on this one Caruso.

    I was not the one who had moved it but in the future I will certainly pay closer attention to the redirect link of any that get moved.....

    It's too bad the redirect had already expired on this one since had it still existed we could have just extended it....

    Rick
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  29. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    It's too bad the redirect had already expired on this one since had it still existed we could have just extended it....
    I think the redirect link can be revived by moving the thread to the Unethical Behavior forum and then moving it back here again, with keeping the redirect link.

    But then it's even better just to move it to Unethical Behavior and keep it there.

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