Should affiliates that scam casinos be outed?

[TheGamblingGuru]

Should affiliates that scam casinos be outed?

If they are, you better make damn sure you have a good liability insurance policy in place for the possible libel suit that could follow. It's one thing to out a company but when you start down that path with individuals and all of the privacy rights involved you better be well prepared for a shit can of worms to be opened up in that game. Big, big difference in a spoken statement, claim or accusation verses one that is written and archived.

[GamTrak]

If they are, you better make damn sure you have a good liability insurance policy in place for the possible libel suit that could follow. It's one thing to out a company but when you start down that path with individuals and all of the privacy rights involved you better be well prepared for a shit can of worms to be opened up in that game. Big, big difference in a spoken statement, claim or accusation verses one that is written and archived.

Good point Rob! To bad other folks like (non OP's & AM's) don't recognize how close they can come to losing everything they may have over making liable posts that are false. It's much easier to sue an individual than a corporation.

[Chips]

Are you really ignorant enough to think a black hat or scam affiliate really gives two rips about GPWA? Mediation would work for an honest affiliate that may have made a mistake but really the nasty affiliates that are ripping off the programs and players are not going to come forward here or any other reputable forum/organization.

The programs already talk among each other and can pass on information on "non trustworthy" affiliates. It is being done now, just wash your own laundry. We as reputable affiliates don't need to be involved in the process. Our time is to short as it is.

If the individual is rouge, get rid of them. Tell your fellow program managers so they can keep a keen eye. Naming and shaming is not going to help anyone and as TheGamblingGuru said... You better have some damn good insurance and legal staff. You are poking a stick in a hornets nest.

[casinojack]

Has been a good thread so far...

Of course, this does happen in private already....I am kind of surprised at the results to be honest....

I really thought it would be seen more as a 2 way street....Interesting so far looking for more input..

[mojo]

I really thought it would be seen more as a 2 way street....Interesting so far looking for more input..

I think it is definately a two way street. I believe honest affiliates want to see these rogues punished as much as you do. Just done in a way that doesn't hurt programs further. Outing rogue player/affiliates individually is a tricky and dangerous scenerio and I think what many are thinking here. Libel, privacy act issues etc. We don't want to see you torn up!

What can we do to help you stop this? I suggest all of the aff programs gang up and close their affiliate accounts. Since we are not privvy to that information I'm not sure how/what we can do but I'd be more than willing to kick some azz and take no prisioners.

[casinobonusguy]

casinojack ,
I think the example you used was a bad one as the affiliate in you case is a PLAYER not an affiliate.Usually when players do chargebacks i think it is a big red flag of a gambling problem.
If you used the example of a CPA fraud where affiliate gets $150 per player and sent 15 relatives to deposit $50 each then the answers you would get would be much different.

I dont think a casino has the right to discuss PLAYER Details with ANYONE but the player.

Judy

[casinobonusguy]

I think it is definately a two way street. I believe honest affiliates want to see these rogues punished as much as you do. Just done in a way that doesn't hurt programs further. Outing rogue player/affiliates individually is a tricky and dangerous scenerio and I think what many are thinking here. Libel, privacy act issues etc. We don't want to see you torn up!

What can we do to help you stop this? I suggest all of the aff programs gang up and close their affiliate accounts. Since we are not privvy to that information I'm not sure how/what we can do but I'd be more than willing to kick some azz and take no prisioners.

I do not think you will see affiliate programs willing to close affiliate accounts because of matters which do not concern them.It seems everyone for themselves is the thinking behind most programs and MOST AFFILIATES.

[webber286]

Some sort of self-regulation seems like a good idea. Not so sure about naming names, since the points made about honest mistakes is valid, and the really bad scammers won't likely be GPWA members anyway. But definitely naming the sites to avoid would be helpful so we as affiliates also know who to avoid.

[Fergie]

I really thought it would be seen more as a 2 way street....Interesting so far looking for more input..

It's apples and oranges. You see, affiliates are consumers of the products affiliate programs offer. Also, the GPWA stands for Gambling Portal Webmasters Association, a community of affiliate webmasters.

The logistics don't lend themselves to the scenario you want.
Let me explain. Let's say an affiliate has been ripped off by an affiliate program. Could the affiliate go to other affiliate programs, name and shame, and expect that the other affiliate programs could actually do something to help? I don't think so. They have no more control over their peers than we have over ours.

When we have a problem with a program, we don't turn to other programs to help us. We turn to each other. We know other programs aren't in a position to tell one of their peers how they should behave.

We name and shame programs amongst ourselves, because we can act as a community and sometimes encourage programs to change their T&C's, for example. Together we make a difference.

As programs, you have every right to refuse to do business with a shady affiliate, as you also have the right to share information with each other regarding unethical affiliates.

Now a group of programs could get together and threaten an affiliate that they will turn off their links if they don't turn over a new leaf & pay back any ill-gotten money; however, there's no doubt they'd run into the same stumbling block affiliates run into: Those who are making money in any partnership, whether with a good affiliate/casino or bad affiliate/casino, will not sever profitable relationships.

Are you really ignorant enough to think a black hat or scam affiliate really gives two rips about GPWA? Mediation would work for an honest affiliate that may have made a mistake but really the nasty affiliates that are ripping off the programs and players are not going to come forward here or any other reputable forum/organization.

The programs already talk among each other and can pass on information on "non trustworthy" affiliates. It is being done now, just wash your own laundry. We as reputable affiliates don't need to be involved in the process. Our time is to short as it is.

If the individual is rouge, get rid of them. Tell your fellow program managers so they can keep a keen eye. Naming and shaming is not going to help anyone and as TheGamblingGuru said... You better have some damn good insurance and legal staff. You are poking a stick in a hornets nest.

Chips hit the nail on the head.

[LiveCasinoPartners]

I am surprised because I originally thought that the "name and shame" would be a two way street. I think we are conditioned to the many rogue programs who made this a lop sided view.

On our program so far, the only "scammers" so far are a few who "stuffed" cookies. Bad? not malicious, bit not the type of affiliate we want. Certainly not enough to make a public statement.

I can certainly imagine some affiliates who would cause problems that other program managers would like to know about. Personally, I've been saved at least ten thousand dollars so far by other AM here.

It would be nice to see some 'accountability" for rogues on both sides of the fence. I just don't think that it will end up being the same methods of "outing".

[universal4]

I think a lot of affiliates are worried that this could be very open to abuse.

The criteria for the so-called outing of a bad affiliate is exactly what?

Some affiliates might be hard on a few programs either because they feel the stats aren't accurate, or they have had trouble getting paid or can't seem to get an old dispute settled, (one that the program has long since wrote off and tried to forget).

I think that affiliates might be worried these kinds of situations might lead to a program trying to put the affiliate in a bad light because of this and not because the affiliate is really rogue or deserves it.

Wagerx, you might be partially correct that some of these fears are due to affiliates conditioning of being suspect of programs. (whether this is right or wrong doesn't change this conditioning of years)

And Chips made a very good point, the affiliates that need to be discussed and outed the most don't really care, however those are the ones that all programs need to know about the most.

Rick
Universal4

[danielg]

First of all I want to thank Jack for starting this thread.

I would like to add two points:

I don't think that honest affiliates have a reason to fear. Beacuse of the risk of being sued, only in extreme cases the affiliate program will publicly acuse an affiliate instead of just burying it inside.

Second, I agree that the problematic affiliates won't care, but i think it will change quickly. The more AM's will know about them and it will hurt their pocket, they will start to care. And that's actually the point.

Daniel