Stats Issues / Questions

[arkyt]

Are EuroPartners stats intentionally confusing?

Here are the column headings I see >

Casino first deposit cnt
Casino Fun players
Casino Player
Poker First Deposits Cnt
Poker rakes
Chargebacks Amt
Comps Amt
Credit amt
Deposits amt
Deposits cnt
Real clicks
Real Downs
Real imps
Returns amt
Total casino wins
Withdraws
Casino Total First Deposit Count
Casino Total First Deposit Amount
Poker Total First Deposit Count
Deposit cnt
Deposit amt
Casino Total Fun Players
Casino Total Real Players
Bonus Amt
Top Level Revenue
Jackpot Bets

How many of these items are redundant?

Additionally, with regards to one months stats as an example - how can I see a month that shows 26 in the "Deposit cnt" column, $4,147.00 in the "Deposits amt" column, $5,904.53 in the "Bonus Amt" column, $6,750.00 in "withdraws" column, and then 0 in the "Casino Player" column and 0 in the "Casino Total Real Players" column .... how is that possible?

Shouldn't one of those player columns show the total number of "active" players? And where is the column which shows negative carry overs each month? Hiding that to keep affies promoting?

Anyway, I would really like to know how do zero players make 26 deposits? How do zero players get 1800 more in bonuses than they deposited and with draw nearly 1000 more than that? Heck I reckon I should sign up as a player with EP cause I see this sort of thing in stats all the time ... are these numbers true or are the books being cooked?

[davenewgates]

Looks like everything is similar, how wise of euro partners to do that? i didn't even try to count

[universal4]

I can understand the withdraws being higher sometimes since a player could have won in a previous calandar month and withdrew the funds later.

I agree that at no time should there be activity such as you describe with the "active" player column being zero.

I am very interested in how this is explained.

As far as the redundant columns, if you are not aware you can turn some of them off from your reports and once you run the reports after customized it will save your settings and that is the columns always shown in the order you choose. (in that particular browser on that particular system)

Rick
Universal4

[arkyt]

I can understand the withdraws being higher sometimes since a player could have won in a previous calandar month and withdrew the funds later.

Yes, I can understand seeing that from time to time and totally agree that is acceptable, but the majority of the time?

I agree that at no time should there be activity such as you describe with the "active" player column being zero.

I am very interested in how this is explained.

Yah, me too - but Ive been trying to get that answered for months and have yet to get any response on it. All I see is GPWA/APCW promo videos saying how much the stats have improved - from my point of view they havent changed at all.

As far as the redundant columns, if you are not aware you can turn some of them off from your reports and once you run the reports after customized it will save your settings and that is the columns always shown in the order you choose. (in that particular browser on that particular system)

Yes, I know I can do that, but I first want to know if any of these columns do in fact represent the exact same thing and if so, why are more than one needed. Im interested in learning what the true intent is there.

Without a valid "active" player column and without a valid "carry-over" column - these stats are just about worthless!

[universal4]

Hmmmm..... you know I sorta remember asking about the stats that were similar in a thread a year or so ago and I think Mark or Marc answered and clarified some of them....(Im a little short of time now but will look for that later....maybe it is in a private thread somewhere)

Rick
Universal4

[EP VPMarketing]

Hi All

Firstly a quick post to clarify some things.
Thanks to Universal4 for answering some of these questions.
I am happy to answer here and save us all the time of searching through old threads.

Arkyt -
The stats are not redundant.
The stats are not intentionally confusing.
The stats are not cooked or anything similar.

Withdrawals and bonuses can exceed deposits as Universal said because of previous month's activity.
The column you are talking about is not "active" players.

That having been said, please let me know if you would like an explanation.
If you actually want help to understand I am more than happy.

Thanks.

Marc

[arkyt]

That having been said, please let me know if you would like an explanation.
If you actually want help to understand I am more than happy.

Thanks.

Marc

You are more than happy to help yet you just totally ignored my question(s) ?

For starters >

1) Please explain in detail what each header in the stats columns represent.
2) Please explain which column represents the total "active" players.
3) Please explain which column represents negative carry over.

Thanks.

[EP Relations]

Hi Arkyt,

Marc had to leave for the day, its already the end of the day here. He wanted me to post in the meantime and answer at least 2 of the 3 questions. The player columns that you listed speak about only new players and as for the negative carryover column, we do not have a column that represents negative carryover.

I hope this helped for now.

Thanks
Robin

[arkyt]

I hope this helped for now.

Yes and no ... yes you have confirmed that the stats are not all that, no you have not provided answer to the most basic questions - what each header represents - you should know that so I am really confused why you couldn't answer that question. Possibly EP needs more time to "conjure up" definitions? Hopefully all the questions can be answered tomorrow...

On a related note you told me in email you would get back to me come Monday - (last week monday) yet I never heard back from you. From: Robin / To: Brian / Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:58 AM - yet I haven't heard back from you...

Anyway, in the mean time, I would like to know why there is no "Active" player column? Is that not something that should be given and/or can easily be provided?

I would also like to know why there is no "carry-over" column? Additionally something that IMO should be displayed - its absense seems to me to be intentional. Its another column that should be very easy to provide - I can think of very few legitimate reasons for not having one.

I am having a really tough time consuming that APCW promo video that claims EP has improved their stats - I dont see it. What has changed for the better? IMO again the stats are at best incomplete.

[universal4]

I totally and completely agree and would fully support wanting a "carry over" column.

I keep very good track of the amount owed to me in a spreadsheet at any given time, but not everyone has the ability to create and maintain suck spreadsheets.

The amount"owed" to an affiliate (whether that be a positive or negative figure is irrelevant" is one of the MOST basic of all stats that every single affiliate on the planet is interested in and yet you choose not to provide that figure on a regular basis.

Providing a daily or monthly revenue figure is not enough since any given month that ends in the negative, or at a balance that is less than the minimum payment threshold means from that point forward that an affiliate never really knows how much money is owed to them....(based upon the Euro Partners affiliate backend and what is shown to them upon login) and all figures must be tracked by the individual affiliate.

I am sure that within the affiliate administration backend that an affiliate manager can at any time they wish see this figure.....why then should it be hidden from the affiliate?

Rick
Universal4

[arkyt]

I am sure that within the affiliate administration backend that an affiliate manager can at any time they wish see this figure.....why then should it be hidden from the affiliate?

The only reason I can think of to hide it would be so that the affiliates see a positive monthly income and continue to promote instead of a negative one that might cause them to remove links.

For instance, the last several months I have seen a positive amount and thought cool I can expect a payment - NOT ... apparently there was a negative from mid last year that I am still trying to dig out of... something I should be able to see immediately upon reviewing stats if it had not been hidden from me.

If they want to improve things then improve them; if not then dont put out promo videos claiming everything is all better now. Sorry, but Robin as affiliate manager spoke about how much the stats have improved yet shes not in a position to give a description of each header? How much reassurance should that give any of us?

And I make no apologies for being abrasive - I'm sick and tired of piss poor support and programs doing as they please while leaving affiliates out in the cold!

[EP VPMarketing]

Hi Arkyt

You are right that I ignored your questions.
I wanted to first address your comments about the program.
After that I am happy to respond about the columns or any specific questions.

There are many questions/comments here so I will try go through them systematically.

Yes and no ... yes you have confirmed that the stats are not all that, no you have not provided answer to the most basic questions - what each header represents - you should know that so I am really confused why you couldn't answer that question. Possibly EP needs more time to "conjure up" definitions? Hopefully all the questions can be answered tomorrow...

I don't believe that your response is conducive to anything constructive and am asking you very nicely to tone down on the flaming.
There are affiliates in this forum (like Universal) for example that I believe have affiliates' and the community's interest at heart.
Then there are others that don't.
I would like to believe that you are in the first group.
We don't have to "conjure" anything up.
We are one of the most honest programs out there.
I can say this having been in the industry over a decade.
We had stats issues (and some other issues like any large program) but we dont screw affiliates.
Period.

I was waiting for a reply from you before posting the column explanantion as I wanted to separate your comments and the definitions (which might be useful for others in this thread).
I told Robin I would post the columns in the morning.
Simple.
We have posted column explanations in the past and are happy to do it again for the benefit of the thread.
I'll put explanations at the end and address the other questions first.

Anyway, in the mean time, I would like to know why there is no "Active" player column? Is that not something that should be given and/or can easily be provided?

This is a good point.
At the moment we don't have a column for this.
I checked with dev team and this does seem easy to add.
We'll let you know.

The only reason I can think of to hide it would be so that the affiliates see a positive monthly income and continue to promote instead of a negative one that might cause them to remove links.

For instance, the last several months I have seen a positive amount and thought cool I can expect a payment - NOT ... apparently there was a negative from mid last year that I am still trying to dig out of... something I should be able to see immediately upon reviewing stats if it had not been hidden from me.

This has nothing do with hiding information.
At the moment we don't have this.
Not in the reports or in the backend as a column.
Remember there are essentially 2 parts here - opening balance, current (closing) balance.
This is actually being implemented at the moment, along with online viewing of statements, payments and reference numbers.
This won't be in the monthly stats report but in a summary report showing current month and previous.
This has nothing to do with a "conspiracy" to motivate affiliates to work when they are negative.
I personally give affiliates more credit than to assume they could so easily be manipulated, even if you don't grant them the same credit.
I would like to remind you that a) nothing has been "hidden" from you, b) you have been in regular contact with your AM for months who has explained the negative and the amount.
Aside from Arkyt's conspiracy theory I agree with the idea of a "carry over" or "balance" column and as I said we are working on something.
Thanks for the suggestion.
A question to you 2 and everyone else in the thread:
Out of the programs you guys work with (without names), how many offer a carryover column and how many don't.
Before anyone mentions negative vs no-negative carryover, it is relevant either way because of payment minimums.
Please let me know, I am interested if this is offered by all other programs or only some.
I have spoken to a couple to check and they say that they don't offer as part of online stats.

If they want to improve things then improve them; if not then dont put out promo videos claiming everything is all better now. Sorry, but Robin as affiliate manager spoke about how much the stats have improved yet shes not in a position to give a description of each header? How much reassurance should that give any of us?

We have improved the stats situation.
Period.
We have improved as a program.
Period.
It is unfortunate that you have not experienced this but that's the situation.
Are we perfect - no.
Do we have the best reports in the industry - no.
Do we have the best service - sometimes.
Am I proud of the work we have done and are doing - yes.
We made some mistakes and we admitted that but not a lot of programs would have worked as hard or taken the flak we have to get here.

And I make no apologies for being abrasive - I'm sick and tired of piss poor support and programs doing as they please while leaving affiliates out in the cold!

I'm also tired of it.
I'm just glad I work for a program that does not act like that.
Remember 2 important things:
1) Every program has affiliates that like/work with them and affiliates they don't. We have many affiliates that actually appreciate the relationship with us as we do them.
2) This relationship works both ways and just as there are dodgy/piss-poor/downright bad programs as well as good, the same is true of the affiliate community.

So, lastly before the column explanation.
I think my position on your post is relatively clear.
Think carefully about what your position is and let me know.
If you are serious about working with us and the negative is the problem, let me know.
Either way, looking forward to speaking to you soon.

Definitions:
Casino first deposit cnt - New casino depositors at a brand (not unique)
Casino Fun players - New casino fun players at a brand (not unique)
Casino Player - New casino real players (not unique)
Poker First Deposits Cnt - New poker depositors at a brand (not unique)
Poker rakes - Poker rake
Chargebacks Amt - Amount of chargebacks
Comps Amt - Amount of bonuses (cash bonuses)
Credit amt - Money credited back to players (CC)
Deposits amt - Amount of deposits (new unique players)
Deposits cnt - Number of deposits (new unique players)
Real clicks - Clicks
Real Downs - Downloads
Real imps - Impressions
Returns amt - Money credited back to players (other payment methods)
Total casino wins - Amount of winning bets on casino
Withdraws - Withdrawals
Casino Total First Deposit Count - New casino depositors at a brand (all)
Casino Total First Deposit Amount - First time deposit amount by new casino depositors at a brand (all)
Poker Total First Deposit Count - New poker depositors at a brand (all)
Deposit cnt - Amount of deposits
Deposit amt - Number of deposits
Casino Total Fun Players - New casino fun players at a brand (all)
Casino Total Real Players - New casino real players (all)
Bonus Amt - Amount of bonuses (non-cash bonuses)
Top Level Revenue - Affiliate earnings
Jackpot Bets - Bets made by players on progressives

Thanks

Marc

[arkyt]

I don't believe that your response is conducive to anything constructive and am asking you very nicely to tone down on the flaming.

If you desire/expect good rapport I believe you first need to have a history of providing top quality support - clearly it has been my experience that is not the case with CasinoPartners / EuroPartners, but I digress.

Marc, my position is that if EP wants to claim stats are "all that" then they darn well should be "all that". As I have stated my opinion is that there should be an "active" player column - I think affiliates should have the ability to clearly see how many "total" players they currently have playing. I honestly see no valid reasons for not having this. I would think most affiliates would assume this was already provided, but its not (and I have found other programs who refuse to supply it as well... though I cant think of a valid reason no to.)

I further believe that a negative carry over column or "current balance" column should be supplied ... likewise I see no valid reasons for not supplying this. As to how carryovers are handled by other programs - I think thats irrelevant. Seriously, just because programs A,B,C want to do it one way shouldn't mean that you too should do it that way too. Moreover I, as well as many others, try not to work with programs who have them in the first place so I dont have much experience in how they are handled across the board. I'm just trying to help improve the stats package at EP.

You have stated that you are working on both an active column and a carryover column - I would be happy if both were implemented - that would be an excellent start to improving the stats. From there I would like to see more drilling down on individual players, but the first two additions shouldnt be more than 10 minutes of coding so I'll wait to see how serious you are about adding them.

As to the column headers - thanks for the definitions, now that I see them, I can see where the confusion comes in, at least from my point ov view. I think more than a few could have better names. I need some time to go over each and try and figure out how some aren't redundant.

Please do keep me updated on the data additions and thanks!

[theGman]

So, lastly before the column explanation.
I think my position on your post is relatively clear.
Think carefully about what your position is and let me know.

Not sure what this means Marc but i can certainly sympathise with Arkyt and his position. It seems that there are a few Playtech aff programs behave in a similar fashion. Delays , shifting of account managers , lots of irrrelevant emails and very dodgy tactics in the case of Cpays.

We witness the same kind of behaviour across multilple platforms so when someone actually writes about it and expresses themselves you could call it Flaming on a site, i would say take it as constructive feedback , this person has obviously been pushed to the limit. How much contact and how many emails does it take to resolve something that should be fairly straightforward. They still however take the time to tell you and others about their issue - as for me , i dont bother - i will never promote you guys again for a very simple reason.

I simply do not need the headaches that accompany dealing with your orginization.

That said - i do like you and i think you have made a major difference there. I just wish you worked for a better quality Affiliate program. And im not talking about flashy websites and marketing booths at shows Marc , some of the best programs are the simplest.

There are a number of issues on this forum involving EP Marc - they involve a number of Affiliates . Are we to believe that all of these people are unreasonable ?

Where there is smoke there is fire my friend.

[universal4]

There are affiliates in this forum that I believe have affiliates' and the community's interest at heart.
Then there are others that don't.
I would like to believe that you are in the first group.

I am gonna back arkyt up on this and state that I truly believe him to be a member of the first group.

Out of the programs you guys work with (without names), how many offer a carryover column and how many don't.
Before anyone mentions negative vs no-negative carryover, it is relevant either way because of payment minimums.
Please let me know, I am interested if this is offered by all other programs or only some.
I have spoken to a couple to check and they say that they don't offer as part of online stats.

I am not really sure who you talked to, but almost every single program out there has some sort of report that we can run to get a handle on every penny that is currently owed to us. (I am specifically referring to a field we can see that shows a carry-over whether that be positive or negative)

There are very few that do not provide this and trust me I tell them often how impoortant this is to provide.

Even the old plain jane stock Playtech installs provide this. All an affiliate needs to do is run the "Monthly Earnings" report and it will show what was made, there is a column for what was paid, and a column that shows what is owed.

We are only asking you start showing this to us, and I am glad that you FINALLY see that this is a reasonable request.

Thank you for seeing the wisdom of these requests and please keep us updated on the progress of being able to see the columns requested.

Rick
Universal4

[EP VPMarketing]

Hi Arkyt

Thanks for the reply.
I agree both are good ideas and thanks to you and others here for raising.
1 is being worked on but more complicated than it seems and the other 1 you are right is pretty simple.
It just requires testing after to avoid making stats problems instead of resolving.
Either way, now that we have most of the "stuff" out the way and can speak, look at the columns and I will look again at your account and we can speak again in the week.
The stats are not all that, I agree but they work whereas we had periods in the past where they didn't always display correctly on the site.

Gman - Please don't misunderstand me.
Arkyt's case in particular is 2 different issues - 1 personal to his account and 2 is frustration/clarification.
I never said once in public OR private that the people on this forum are unreasonable.
I do maintain that there are affiliates looking to resolve and affiliates looking to "flame".
I do not want to go into anyone's particular details but some of the cases here were dealt with by AM's perfectly and the affiliate is wrong.
Not all but some.
I think in these threads you will find some mistakes we made AND some affiliates being unreasonable.
But if you look since the launch we have improved dramatically and there are many more resolved cases than not.

I do always welcome feedback (good or bad) I just think there is a constructive way to do it that benefits everyone and a less constructive way.
I also would like to see cases where sometimes affiliates admit they are wrong in this forum and not only us.

Where there is smoke there is fire my friend.

Just an idea, maybe just maybe the smoke that's left is that from after the fire is put out?
Just a thought.

Thanks for the comments and compliment.

Marc

[VN111]

Just watched this apcw video regarding europartners.

Good job Robin.

From the affiliate perspective:

As long as such bribeable clowns can claim to be the "voice of the affiliates" -
we, the affiliates. don´t deserve better affiliate programs.

[oyropa]

Can anyone see "Player Stats" ??? I dont have this option in my stats

[EP VPMarketing]

Hi Oyropa

Player stats is not enabled by default.
If you need this option, ask your AM to turn it on.
Just like the xml feeds, this is an extra option that was added after system launch.
It is not 2 systems, just a new feature.

Either way, since you've asked here, you don't need to actually ask your AM (why do double work), I will speak to them in the morning.

Thanks.

Marc

[oyropa]

Thank you Marc !