Time to end this free spin nonsense

[Puma]

I think the attempt to get new players to sign up and deposit via the "$1000 free and one hour to win as much as you can" is just about over. As an affiliate I no longer promote such deals because of its lack towards my creditbility as a webmaster. Basiclly I'm being asked to fool my visitors into thinking that they can actually win something for nothing. Here are some actual terms from various casinos regarding this free play promo.

I love watching forum owners run and post these free play promos like they are something special. The players have caught on to the invalid promotions and IMO posting them is only hurting webmasters. Microgaming casinos as an example have shown what false advertising is all about.

Here are some random casinos offering this type of promo. Lets view the terms shall we. Keep what you win up to a max if you make a deposit is the usual theme.

Lucky Nugget Casino - $1000 free & 1 hour

At the end of the Free Play Period and subject to the limits imposed below, any positive balance over and above the Free Play Credits will be considered a Player's winnings ("Positive Free Play Credits") and may be transferred into a Player's Real Account once a Player makes the minimum Casino Credit # deposit therein. So, for example, if at the end of the Free Play Period a player has 1050 or more Free Play Credits standing to his/her credit, he/she may transfer 50 Positive Free Play Credits to his/her Real account or if he/she has 2000 Free Play Credits standing to his/her credit, he/she may transfer 50 Positive Free Play Credits and any positive balance over and above the same shall become null and void for any purpose.

Ruby Fortune - $750 free & 1 hour

The maximum amount that can be won and transferred into your real account for this promotion is C$100. Any amount over that will be null and void.

Casino Classic - $500 free & 1 hour "keep your winnings"

The maximum amount that can be won and transferred into your REAL casino account for this promotion is $100. Any amount over this will be null and void.

[Doolally]

I agree, I never promoted these types of offers.

A bonus offer is one thing but these are just cons that dupe players into playing with the offer of something that's unobtainable.

[LiveCasinoPartners]

I don't want to fool players into playing. What kind of ling term player are they going to be? I'm sure they get a lot of complaints about that. That's bad word of mount advertising.

When I post the bonuses for ANY casino I always make sure to let them know not only what the wagering requirements are but also the games that exclude or modify these requirements.

[Chalkie]

Funnily enough, i was reading a very long thread on another forum just yesterday, he had taken up the offer and won his max $200. He deposited £500 to play it thru and then realised after, that casino table games only counted as 2% of his wagering targets.

This meant that he had to play $75,0000 through to get his $200 free that was originaly $1000 in the first place.

Having said that, are there really people out there that think they can get any thing for free still?

The concerning thing in the thread was the fact that firstly the person in chat who he spoke to seemed to mislead him into playing more initially. The terms did tell the truth though, so i dont know what to think.

[AmCan]

i've always wondered why not just be more honest?

how about: "Play Free for 1 Hour, Win $100" or "Pad Your Bonus! - 1 Hour Freeplay"

Statements like this are more honest and still push the "free prize".

Basically you shouldn't be pitching something that isn't going to be given.

I remember the old days of $10 free, but most rules excluded most table games. Why not say "$10 free slot play" instead of just "$10 free"

[joeyl]

Wild horses can't stop gamblers gambling. Gamblers will bet on which wild horse reaches the lushest grass first.

Bonuses attract math heads, bargain hunters and knowledgeless gamblers, who are probably the most likely to turn into problem gamblers.

[AmCan]

I'm not sure anyone is arguing against bonuses, i think we're arguing about misleading advertising, pushing bonuses that don't live up to the numbers being advertised.

When if first started, everyone said "you can't make money on bonus hunters". well the first casino success i had was with the $10 Free at Zodiac and Golden Tiger, signed up hundreds of players over a few year and picked up enough real players to earn a living. Since my players come exclusively from clicking on banner ads, good(real/clear) bonus deals are key.

[TheGooner]

Agree that these bonuses appear to be misleading.

I think that marketting types like the offer because they can put a big headline number on the banner - WOW $500 FREE - POW $1000 FREE etc.

But I do not think that these marketing people are people that play at online casinos - if they were they would understand that advertising $500,$1000 free and limiting winnings to $100 is actually a deception that never makes the player feel good.

We are finding that they do NOT convert as well as traditional match deposit bonues - and we are re-evaluating all properties that are using this tact.

(Are you reading this Renee ?! Any chance of reverting properties back to something that actually appeals to players?)

[Renee]

Agree that these bonuses appear to be misleading.

I think that marketting types like the offer because they can put a big headline number on the banner - WOW $500 FREE - POW $1000 FREE etc.

But I do not think that these marketing people are people that play at online casinos - if they were they would understand that advertising $500,$1000 free and limiting winnings to $100 is actually a deception that never makes the player feel good.

We are finding that they do NOT convert as well as traditional match deposit bonues - and we are re-evaluating all properties that are using this tact.

(Are you reading this Renee ?! Any chance of reverting properties back to something that actually appeals to players?)

Of COURSE I'm reading this :P

Some promotions convert well for some people and not so well for others. This is a fact. I'm sure there are people out there who are having a lot of luck with the free spins promotions, and then there are also those (who are obviously posting) who are not doing so well..

While I understand where everyone is coming from, not sure about other groups, but you are welcome to advertise these offers to your players any which way you want to.

For example, the free spins offers at our group where you can claim up to $200 bonus after the free spins has ended by making a min deposit of $20. Thats an "up to 1000% SUB" - who says you can't advertise it like that? (Gooner I'm pretty sure I mentioned this to you before)

The other point I have to make is that these offers get the most registrations out of any other casino promotion we have ever had, so it may look as though they don't convert as high, but that's just because not everyone who registers decides to go on to deposit - after all, to play for the free hour they don't have to make a deposit. Once the player is in the door (ie registered a real account) it is up to our retention team to keep him/her there and to entice them to deposit.. one example of this is sending them a match bonus offer or similar. Of the accounts I have seen, this has a pretty high success rate.

Another point I'd like to make, is that it's every player's responsibility to read the T&Cs BEFORE they play, after all you wouldn't get a loan from a bank without reading the T&Cs, would you?

We have 18 casinos. Only 5 of them have the free spins bonus, so there are 13 other casinos to choose from which have no deposit bonuses as well as triple sign up bonuses and % match bonuses..

We will also be launching a brand new casino in the next month or two so keep your eye out for that. At this stage I'm not sure what the SUB will be but will post as soon as I know.

If anyone needs any info on any of our other bonuses, I am more than happy to send it over and help out where I can. There is a page in our site now that shows all the casino sign up bonuses. It can be found by logging into the RA site and going to Marketing Tools > Sign Up Bonus Information.

[TheGooner]

Thanks for the response Renee,

Another point I'd like to make, is that it's every player's responsibility to read the T&Cs BEFORE they play, after all you wouldn't get a loan from a bank without reading the T&Cs, would you?

But, they're not getting a loan - they're trying to have some fun gambling online - and they reasonably expect affiliate sites and programs to SPELL OUT THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

We do tell them it's up to $200 -

The problem with is that the prose on the landing page which is pretty much the hype "Make as much money as you Can - $500 free etc:".
(big type face front and centre)

And the payout is limited up to $200? But not mentioned on the banners or the landing page at all? Please understand the disappointing effect this has on people who expected more after a good session. They should be your big players - instead they feel slapped in the face and foolish. How can this be a positive experience?

We have 18 casinos. Only 5 of them have the free spins bonus

Indeed that's correct. But after spending 2 years getting SE ranked for the brands I promote I don't feel like changing to some of the "generic / low rent" names.

as well as triple sign up bonuses and % match bonuses..

Eg. Blackjack BallRoom also offers 40% match on first deposit up to $400 according to your bonus details ... which is a good solid offer ...
http://www.rewardsaffiliates.com/mem...casino-sub.asp

But when you visit the landing page it's impossible to find.
http://www.blackjackballroom.com/

Trying to match expectations with landing page is important - as many players don't like to read small print too much. Can we get a landing page that supports the deposit match options upfront?

The other point I have to make is that these offers get the most registrations out of any other casino promotion we have ever had

A lot of registrations is true - unfortunately though the registration to deposit ratio is just too low. People play the spins, lose and don't seem to deposit. Or woin - but get limited to $200 and don't continue.

We'd like to push the deposit match with appropriate landing pages please.

[Renee]

Thanks for the response Renee,



But, they're not getting a loan - they're trying to have some fun gambling online - and they reasonably expect affiliate sites and programs to SPELL OUT THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

Of course they aren't applying for a loan - it was an example, but IMHO anyone who signs up to something and doesn't read the terms is asking for something unexpected.

We do tell them it's up to $200 -

The problem with is that the prose on the landing page which is pretty much the hype "Make as much money as you Can - $500 free etc:".
(big type face front and centre)

I have never received an email asking for a splash page with different text on it for these offers, however if I did, I would be more than happy to get it made.

And the payout is limited up to $200? But not mentioned on the banners or the landing page at all? Please understand the disappointing effect this has on people who expected more after a good session. They should be your big players - instead they feel slapped in the face and foolish. How can this be a positive experience?

If they read the T&Cs they would have known this before they played.

Again, if you want banners that say "payout limited to $200" or anything else, i will happily get them made for you.

Indeed that's correct. But after spending 2 years getting SE ranked for the brands I promote I don't feel like changing to some of the "generic / low rent" names.


Eg. Blackjack BallRoom also offers 40% match on first deposit up to $400 according to your bonus details ... which is a good solid offer ...
http://www.rewardsaffiliates.com/mem...casino-sub.asp

But when you visit the landing page it's impossible to find.
http://www.blackjackballroom.com/

Trying to match expectations with landing page is important - as many players don't like to read small print too much. Can we get a landing page that supports the deposit match options upfront?

This offer is valid only for those players who decline to play the free spins, or for those who do not make enough to claim after the free spins hour has ended and is offered in the form of a 'second chance wheel'.

We could have a landing page to describe this, however to explain all this on a splash page - if the player isn't reading the T&Cs, do you really think they will read all that print on the splash page? My guess is no. So there's the disappointment again.

The alternative is to have a split splash page that says something like "1 hour of free spins OR Forfeit the free spins for 40% match bonus up to $400"

Is that something you'd use? That way there is not a lot of text and it's right in the player's face.

A lot of registrations is true - unfortunately though the registration to deposit ratio is just too low. People play the spins, lose and don't seem to deposit. Or woin - but get limited to $200 and don't continue.

We'd like to push the deposit match with appropriate landing pages please.

No problem. Send me an email with the details of what you'd like on the page etc and ill get it made for you.

[arkyt]

But, they're not getting a loan - they're trying to have some fun gambling online - and they reasonably expect affiliate sites and programs to SPELL OUT THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

Lets be honest here - IF they SPELLED out all the important stuff up front they wouldn't be so popular. Thats the reason why a lot of people look at them as tricky / misleading / or as traps ...

I hate these type of promos as well - IMO if they are going to offer them they should do exactly as you said - give all the important info up front in BOLD 16pt text - further all bonuses should be accompanied by a link to the terms & conditions which include a definition of "exactly" what bonus abuse is. Casinos should not be permitted to define it after the fact!

[TheGooner]

The alternative is to have a split splash page that says something like "1 hour of free spins OR Forfeit the free spins for 40% match bonus up to $400"

Is that something you'd use? That way there is not a lot of text and it's right in the player's face.

No problem. Send me an email with the details of what you'd like on the page etc and ill get it made for you.

Thanks Renee - you know that we like the program, the casino and the affiliate manager (of course!!) we'd just like the nice transparent offer.

This sounds like just what we're looking for !!
I'll get an email to you overnight ...

[Renee]

...further all bonuses should be accompanied by a link to the terms & conditions...

The free spins bonuses pop up the T&Cs which MUST be agreed to before the free spins start, so if the player "misses" reading the T&Cs on the website, they are there in black and white to read before the free spins start. If the player decides not to agree, the free spins are forfeited.

[Renee]

Thanks Renee - you know that we like the program, the casino and the affiliate manager (of course!!) we'd just like the nice transparent offer.

This sounds like just what we're looking for !!
I'll get an email to you overnight ...

As you Kiwis say, "Sweet as"

Will wait for your email..

[Puma]

I see that once again renee is one of the few affiliate managers to respond to a thread concerning an issue. Thank you Renee

[AK]

Of COURSE I'm reading this :P

Some promotions convert well for some people and not so well for others. This is a fact. I'm sure there are people out there who are having a lot of luck with the free spins promotions, and then there are also those (who are obviously posting) who are not doing so well..

While I understand where everyone is coming from, not sure about other groups, but you are welcome to advertise these offers to your players any which way you want to.

For example, the free spins offers at our group where you can claim up to $200 bonus after the free spins has ended by making a min deposit of $20. Thats an "up to 1000% SUB" - who says you can't advertise it like that? (Gooner I'm pretty sure I mentioned this to you before)

The other point I have to make is that these offers get the most registrations out of any other casino promotion we have ever had, so it may look as though they don't convert as high, but that's just because not everyone who registers decides to go on to deposit - after all, to play for the free hour they don't have to make a deposit. Once the player is in the door (ie registered a real account) it is up to our retention team to keep him/her there and to entice them to deposit.. one example of this is sending them a match bonus offer or similar. Of the accounts I have seen, this has a pretty high success rate.

Another point I'd like to make, is that it's every player's responsibility to read the T&Cs BEFORE they play, after all you wouldn't get a loan from a bank without reading the T&Cs, would you?

We have 18 casinos. Only 5 of them have the free spins bonus, so there are 13 other casinos to choose from which have no deposit bonuses as well as triple sign up bonuses and % match bonuses..

We will also be launching a brand new casino in the next month or two so keep your eye out for that. At this stage I'm not sure what the SUB will be but will post as soon as I know.

If anyone needs any info on any of our other bonuses, I am more than happy to send it over and help out where I can. There is a page in our site now that shows all the casino sign up bonuses. It can be found by logging into the RA site and going to Marketing Tools > Sign Up Bonus Information.

I don't know who is more stubborn.

Jens or Renee

However couldn't survive without CasinoRewards and by far a top 5 operation.

[Puma]

I think I would look at it this way.

Ill place your banners on my websites for $200 and will keep them there for 1 year. Any players I send you are yours and you dont have to pay me anything. No % of earnings at all. Keep who I send you. Then you set everything up, banners are up,you pay me the $200 and we are good to go. Oh wait, not so fast.... If you read the small print you find that you dont have to pay me any money up to a maximum of $50 worth of earnings. The rest you have to pay.Sorry you should have read the terms of the deals. I would have clearly stated them but I was trying to get you to commit to the deal.

[HenrikGr]

Bonuses are being made for a few reasons, to try to stick out from the crowd and to have something "Big" to offer. I know of plenty of bonuses that have been made in collaboration with the affiliate.

As I have said before, the affiliate usually knows his readers better than we do. If no feedback is getting back to us, we expect you to be happy with the current promotions offered. Of course we are looking to new and better ways to promote our casino and poker rooms.

To be fair, if we smacked up the terms and conditions right up there, we would probably get feedback from you guys that the players wont sign up since all that "legal mumbo jumbo" is scaring them of. We just have to find a balance from a "flashy" looking offer and the core value of the offer.

Getting signups are important, but getting first deposits from happy customers are of course way better.

As Renee mentioned, after getting a signup we the opertators might be able to find a offer that suits them later on, and then convert them to a depositing players.

[Renee]

I don't know who is more stubborn.

Jens or Renee

However couldn't survive without CasinoRewards and by far a top 5 operation.

I can tell you right now that it's me :P


BTW Gooner, still haven't received your email. If you've sent it, may have landed in spam.. Let me know.
Cheers