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  1. #1
    Insider is offline Public Member
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    Thumbs down Warning: Be Aware of playing Deuce Club and Cosmik Casino

    I recommend you not in sending players to these both brands from Affpower, if you work with.

    The following rule should be reason enough:

    General T&C 102.

    Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the bonus credited to the player account, prior to the wager requirement for that bonus having been met.

    Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit.

    Due to extensive game manipulation, this applies to all players, regardless if they have any bonus or not.


    For playing with bonuses one can accept this rule but have a look on this sentence: prior to the wager requirement for that bonus having been met.

    Then the next rule applies: regardless if they have any bonus or not - totally nonsense

    You can make nothing against the rules they have, it will goes confirm with LGA but you can warn players to play there, because this is a evil case through the backdoor.

    We will blacklist them and remove all brands alone for this rule and with the intention to accuse players with irregular play.

    (actually we have a player where was confiscated her winnings under this rule)

    This is very worrying and not acceptable for players and partners too, because all players are customers and should be important for this companies.

    Trying to earn money on this shabby way isn't correct.

    (the warning will be also available in the german corner)

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  3. #2
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    I received an approach from these brands earlier this week, which I rejected due to shocking player t&c.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FictionNet View Post
    I received an approach from these brands earlier this week, which I rejected due to shocking player t&c.
    "shocking" is still expressed harmless, it makes angry

    these is a rogue rule and with fully intent to accuse players with irregular bets

    I can't grasp that some webmasters advertise and let running their players in an open knife.

    Are the players not important enough ?

    As they started 2011 as startup company i tried to give them a chance. From the beginning the Gamescale software was the problem. It was not possible to set minimum betsize (0.01) and i critizised this. After a while they made changes on a handfull games and 2013 they added betsoft games.

    They had the chance to make it all better but the only thing they get in their heads was to make this crappy rule. I mean how stupid is it ?

    They force downright to make it public, so we have warned our players on our platforms and all other webmasters where have listed, should do the same.

  5. #4
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    Good afternoon,

    Fraudulent Activity
    [...]
    "Irregular play" may include, inter alia:

    • Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the bonus credited to the player account, prior to the wager requirement for that bonus having been met.
    • Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit.
    • Using the double-up feature to increase bet values.

    Due to extensive game manipulation, this applies to all players, regardless if they have any bonus or not.
    i've seen many tricks, but that is the epitome of rudeness. Calling this „Fraudulent Activity“ is so audacious, that it's the best to pull the plug as fast as possible.

    More then 50% of all Roulette players try to win the Martingale, doubling the bet after a loss. As i read it from the terms, there exist a special function for this within the software. Who is using this function, is a fraud? De facto every player in this casino is a potential fraud, or how i have to understand it?

    More then 90% of all player don't read the terms in full. The 30% rule is so incredible, that you can say: In this casino don't press buttons, don't bet high in special situations, do nothing execpt losing. Otherwise wel will hurt you betimes with our rules, that you understand who is the cook and who the waiter.

    Apparently it has become impossible for some people to earn the livelihood in a decent manner. That's what happens when you have a nice offshore office, opened your own little paradise and everywhere in the room hanging apples.

    Bon voyage!



    Leopold

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  7. #5
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    After scrolling through my old posts written here in this forum it's time to update some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insider View Post
    I recommend you not in sending players to these both brands from Affpower, if you work with.

    The following rule should be reason enough:

    General T&C 102.

    Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the bonus credited to the player account, prior to the wager requirement for that bonus having been met.

    Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit.

    Due to extensive game manipulation, this applies to all players, regardless if they have any bonus or not.


    For playing with bonuses one can accept this rule but have a look on this sentence: prior to the wager requirement for that bonus having been met.

    Then the next rule applies: regardless if they have any bonus or not - totally nonsense

    [...]

    We will blacklist them and remove all brands alone for this rule and with the intention to accuse players with irregular play.

    (actually we have a player where was confiscated her winnings under this rule)
    Hello Insider,

    I want to give you a quick update.

    The critical term is no longer 102. Now it's 103.

    Sometimes it's not only interesting, which terms are added. Terms, that disappears, speaking their own language.

    May 15th, 2013

    Fraudulent Activity
    [...]
    98. Only the Player can see the cards that he holds during a Game. Nobody in the back-office from Conan Gaming can monitor live playing hands. Only after the hands have been played, can administrators check hand histories. Ensuring Game integrity is top priority for Conan Gaming. To ensure that the integrity is never compromised, we use a state of the art technology.
    Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20130515...tions/?lang=en

    Why a terms like that disappears?

    Moreover...

    Marketing and Promotion

    61. In the event that a Player wins an amount equal to two thousand Euro (€ 2000) by playing on the Internet Site, the Player agrees to give Conan Gaming the exclusive permanent and irrevocable right and authorization to use the Player’s name, photograph, and portrait in all media as part of Conan Gaming’s marketing and promotional needs, and for its Internet Site(s), on a worldwide level, and to be fully cooperative with our representatives including support staff.
    That's just wonderful. If you win the small sum of 2000 Euro, then you will be awarded as public "laughingstock of the week", and the sphere of privacy doesn't count!

    If I would be a winner there and will be asked for a portrait, then they are free to use this one:



    But I will never play there. Would rather take a trip to the mountains and enjoy the overwhelming sight and quietness.

    Leopold

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    I specifically list the Conan venues as 'Not Recommended' due to the first term in this thread where max bet rules are applied to non promotional play, but I'd say calling 'rogue' is overkill.

    I really dislike this rule and as far as I'm concerned it demonstrates a shocking lack of understanding of how casino games work (though they would be far from the first group I've come across restricting progressive betting systems on non-promotional play). Either your games function correctly and as such no betting system will gain an advantage over them (hence no need for the rules) or they don't and the games should be taken down immediately due to their non-random nature. That said, the term is completely clear and it is the player's responsibility to ensure that they are familiar with the terms and conditions at any casino they play at. This isn't a vague 'Spirit of the Bonus' rule, it's a perfectly clear term with zero ambiguity. If the player failed to read the terms and conditions beforehand that's a failing on their part.
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  10. #7
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    Predatory terms are still predatory terms, no matter how you look at it. Deuce Club for example is black listed on nearly all serious German information websites as a criminal casino. I can only report, what I see. That is not a coincidence. It's trustfully reported, that they have confiscated a lot of regular winnings using their predatory terms. That is purely arbitrary. Regular winners don't get their money. It's public and detailed proven. What should I do. I can only report, what happened.

    Moreover, terms from casinos like this one under German law are null and void because it's an illegal and unethical contract.

    It's a rip-off machine and I don't accept phrases, that players should read the terms. Everybody knows, that the terms in general will be read by 10-20% only, and terms are nested in one another, that sometimes also a lawyer must read twice before he understand, what is written.

    This applies also to terms of some affiliate programs.

    Every webmaster, who supports unethical casinos, acts irresponsibly. This is my opinion since many years, and I stand by that.

    Many webmasters are too lazy to read also the casino terms. It's an easy check for the seriousness of the partner.

    But I can help, that everybody can read it without eye glasses, how 2 words ("or not") demask this casino:

    "regardless if they have any bonus or not"

    Leopold

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  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    Predatory terms are still predatory terms, no matter how you look at it. Deuce Club for example is black listed on nearly all serious German information websites as a criminal casino. I can only report, what I see. That is not a coincidence. It's trustfully reported, that they have confiscated a lot of regular winnings using their predatory terms. That is purely arbitrary. Regular winners don't get their money. It's public and detailed proven. What should I do. I can only report, what happened.

    It's a rip-off machine and I don't accept phrases, that players should read the terms. Everybody knows, that the terms in general will be read by 10-20% only, and terms are nested in one another, that sometimes also a lawyer must read twice before he understand, what is written.
    I don't read German so I'd find it difficult to refute that, but I'd be very cautious using words like "criminal". Some affiliate sites disapproving of the way a casino conducts business doesn't necessarily validate claims of criminality. You open yourself up to all sorts of legal challenge when you uses such provocative language.

    That specific term doesn't require a lawyer to understand - it's very very clear - and as stated before it's the player's responsibility to ensure they've read and understood the terms and conditions before they sign-up. If I take a 2 year gym membership, there's not a court in the land that's going to let me renege on the contract 2 months in because I say that I didn't read the terms of the contract and didn't realise it lasted for 2 years. Casinos have to behave responsibly, but players also have to accept their own responsibilities in this respect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    Moreover, terms from casinos like this one under German law are null and void because it's an illegal and unethical contract.
    Again I'm not particularly well versed in German law, but as a basic term I can't see what's "unethical" about this. Not every term is intended to benefit the player, in fact the majority of terms are specifically in place to restrict player actions. That doesn't make them unethical.

    In the UK terms based on "irregular" or "abusive" game play are certainly null under the Consumer Protection Act 2008 (depending on the wording of the specific term) as they fail to clearly define how a player would violate them. I suspect that this is really what you're driving at, but in this instance the term very clearly stipulates what the player is not allowed to do. There's no ambiguity, if the player chooses - and it is their choice - to exceed bets of 30% of their deposit amount, they've chosen to breach the contract they agreed to.

    I want to stress that to all intents and purposes I agree with you. This is a really negative term and as such I would strongly advise affiliates that care about their reputation not to advertise these brands until such time as this term is removed. It will undoubtedly lead to some very unhappy players and shows a fundamental failure to understand gaming theory (a very worrying trait in anyone running a casino). However I am trying to point out that you can ultimately land yourself in hot water legally by extending your statement from a dislike of the term to accusations of rogue behaviour or criminality.
    Last edited by thepogg; 27 May 2014 at 2:44 pm.
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    Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit.

    Due to extensive game manipulation, this applies to all players, regardless if they have any bonus or not.
    This is really the worst terms i every read in a online casino, so if some webmaster promote a casino of this rule he doesn´t better. If you like to do only money with your business, than do this, but if you have any collegiality to your players, than i don´t understand how can somebody promote a brand of this!!

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  15. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvel View Post
    This is really the worst terms i every read in a online casino, so if some webmaster promote a casino of this rule he doesn´t better. If you like to do only money with your business, than do this, but if you have any collegiality to your players, than i don´t understand how can somebody promote a brand of this!!
    If it would be possible, I would give you 3 "thanks" for your post.

    It is really lamentable, what I must read sometimes. I feel sorry for every webmaster, who doesn't care about his players. If they will be treated like last dirt on Earth: No problem! The only thing, that counts: These outlawed pigs have to lose their money in the casino, and it doesn't matter how.

    No, I will never accept that!

    Germany is one of leading nations in consumer protection and the German people know: "Taking care of customers is taking care of business!"

    No excuses!

    AffPower is a joke!

    Why?



    Alex Alfa
    Program Director
    [...]
    Last Activity: 8 Jan 2014
    Source: http://www.gpwa.org/member/alexalfa-affpower

    Fernanda Carrascal
    Head of Affiliates
    [...]
    Last Activity: 13 Mar 2014
    Source: http://www.gpwa.org/member/fernanda-affpower



    Today is 27 May 2014!

    AffPower: "We will not have anything to say to the world of today!"

    ---

    If some one harms another individual financially and insidiously, then he's a criminal and nothing else! In the last years I have seen so many true complaints by ordinary people, victims of theft, robbed by different casinos from the industry, that I must say: "I'm fed up with it!"

    Not even Club Gold have such a term, we are talking about here in this thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by marvel View Post
    This is really the worst terms i every read in a online casino, so if some webmaster promote a casino of this rule he doesn´t better. If you like to do only money with your business, than do this, but if you have any collegiality to your players, than i don´t understand how can somebody promote a brand of this!!
    Thanks again!

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 27 May 2014 at 5:35 pm.

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  17. #11
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    Hi Guys,

    I am new to the forum, having discovered it after doing a Google search for 'Irregular Play' at Cosmik Casino. Yep, you've guessed it, I've been done by them and had my winnings confiscated because I won too much compared to my deposit!!

    Simple facts are:

    I deposited £20 to play with, converted to €24.03.
    Started on slots at total bet of €1.25 a spin and won in first few goes.
    Stake increased to a €2.50, then €5.00 and then €10.00 per spin as my winnings increased.
    Decided to withdraw over €500 and completed the withdrawal procedure.
    A couple of days later, received an e-mail saying my withdrawal was denied and winnings confiscated.
    I queried it, they then sent a copy & pasted reply re Irregular Play and exceeding 30% bet amount.
    I replied (more than once) and sent an Official Complaint e-mail, no replies so far.

    Ok, so €10.00 is more than 30% of my deposit of €24.03, HOWEVER, their T&C's state '• Placing single bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit.'

    This is what I disagree with (ok, the principal of this rule is crap) in that my €10.00 spin on the slots was broken down as €2.00 per reel over 5 reels, therefore the 'single bet' is surely €2.00 per reel?!?!?!?!

    My last big win was calculated as 200x €2.00 and 50x €2.00 and NOT the €10.00 stake they are making it out to be.

    So far no response from them to clarify this rule despite my e-mails and notification of my intent to report them to the Maltese Gaming Board and then to seek legal advice re the debt collection.

    So much for finally having a bit of luck and winning for a change!

    I am just cheesed off that they accepted the wagers in the first place. Plus, they confiscated ALL my winnings, despite me having won over €200 on the lesser wagers, so why was this confiscated as well? The €500 was won on the SECOND spin of my €10.00 multiple bet stake (namely 5x single bets of €2.00).

    I am still absolutely disgusted by their actions, now in the 4th day after it happened.

    So, if no reply from them in the next 3 days, I WILL be taking this further.

    GAMBLE AT YOUR OWN RISK ON THIS SITE!

    Sorry, rant over.

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  19. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trickster View Post
    This is what I disagree with (ok, the principal of this rule is crap) in that my €10.00 spin on the slots was broken down as €2.00 per reel over 5 reels, therefore the 'single bet' is surely €2.00 per reel?!?!?!?!
    I'm afraid reels have nothing to do with this. You are not betting on individual reels as individual reels cannot constitute a win. It's not the reel that dictates the win, it's the payline.

    That said I would agree that this rule crosses an ethical line for me. In the first instance, the rule applies to non-bonus play. When a player does not accept a bonus they expect to be able to play without restriction. They may make up part of the general terms and conditions but it very unlikely that a player would look for this type of restriction as they aren't expecting it (it breaks from industry standard). It's absolutely fair and correct for a casinos to stipulate rules where they give the player some incentive (bonus/promotion) to accept them. The casino offers something the player wants and they have the choice whether to accept the additional restrictions that the casino puts in place or not.

    Moreover, this rule demonstrates a very worrying lack of understanding of the workings of casinos games. Assuming that the software this group uses is fair, there's not valid justification for this rule. When playing with a bonus allowing high variance bets can allow the player to gain an edge over the house and therefore it's a good idea for casinos to restrict high bet sizes while a player uses a bonus. Without a bonus/promotion/cashback/comp points, there's no betting strategy that will give the player the edge over the house. In other words, if you are worried about player's winning too much without a bonus, restrict the table limits, don't add in terms stipulating max % of deposits allowed to be wagered. So either the casino do not understand the very basics of the mathematics of gambling or their games are behaving in an abnormal fashion that would require some sort additional term restriction.

    These terms are just player traps and any casinos trying to restrict the max bet sizes/wins on non-bonus play automatically disqualifies themselves from positive representation on ThePOGG.com.

    I would also stress that as long as the term states "single bet" rather than "single round of play" it's not clear enough. For example a single bet would be a chip placed on any position on the Roulette table, but you could place multiple different bets at the same time on Roulette. Or Blackjack, the single bet would be the initial bet placed before the cards are dealt, but what happens if the player chooses to place an additional bet to split or double? I wouldn't apply the same logic to slots games as it's pretty much normal to play all lines max coins and just change the coin size to adjust the bet.

    In short I wouldn't argue that you've broken the rule but assuming you were playing without a bonus the enforcement of this rule does the casino's reputation no favours.
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    Many thanks for the reply. Apologies for my terminology, but yes, I did mean to say I was playing 5 'paylines' instead of reels! Therefore single bets of €2.00 per payline on 5 paylines. Therefore does the 'single bet' rule mean I was betting single bets of €2.00 as surely €10.00 is a multiple bet value and complies with their T&C's?

    I attach a screen print of the win where I won €500 which clearly states the wager was €2.00 for each payline, therefore single bet values?

    (hopefully the image will show)


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    Hello Trickster,

    I am very sorry to hear, that you was fallen into the pitfall of this devil casino.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trickstar
    A couple of days later, received an e-mail saying my withdrawal was denied and winnings confiscated.
    I queried it, they then sent a copy & pasted reply re Irregular Play and exceeding 30% bet amount.
    Every webmaster, who promote casinos like this one should be ashamed of themselves. I don't know, what's going on the brain of some people, but sometimes I believe, that money greed destroys not only the character of casinos owners.

    Reckless casinos like this one acting at the edge of crime and they should be blacklisted at every place on the internet. If the owner of this casino will put one step on German soil, he should be arrested and jailed.

    You have done nothing wrong. You have been cheated. It's the same story as with Club Gold Casino. After many months I was the only one here in the forum who still stood for the truth despite all difficulties, intimidating, hostile and degrading, and at the end I was right and the casino showed the true face.

    The same story, because both casinos have added terms, that are so rotten and shifty, that my opinion is, that normally all webmasters, who knows, what's going on but still promoting them, must be blacklisted too, because they are the persons, who sent players deliberately into ruin, to the block.

    The cake is big enough. No one needs casinos, who are acting like thieves.

    The representative of the casino that robbed you, was last time online on March (http://www.gpwa.org/member/fernanda-affpower)!

    That's more than 3 months!

    No surprise. It's a sinking ship!

    Again: I am very sorry, that victims like you still exist.

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 24 June 2014 at 4:51 pm.

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    Many thanks for the replies.

    Apologies re my terminology above, I should have said paylines instead of reels!

    I have also reported the situation here:

    http://www.askgamblers.com/casino-co...ings-cancelled

    To which I have had a reply, but not exactly satisfactory. It also seems there are lots of complaints about them on this site as well! Not so reassuring that so many people are having vast sums of money confiscated by them and makes you wonder where this money is going, especially if the system has already logged winnings as being paid out?

    Interesting that they say their T&C's are clear and without individual interpretation, because I have certainly missed the point! They state that my 'total bet is €10.00' and therefore above 30% deposit value. Sorry, but 'single bets' (per the T&C's) do not have a total as they are exactly that, singular in value. It seems they wish to accumulate 5x payline bets of €2.00 as a single bet, which is puzzling as one of my winners was 200x €2.00. Surely if it was a €10.00 single bet, then it would have paid out 200x €10?

    Oh well, I await a reply from the Lotteries and Gaming Authority Malta to see where I stand.

    I know the saying, gambling is a mugs game, but alas some of us do enjoy it and this has seriously not been an enjoyable experience!

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