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  1. #1
    Cross is offline New Member
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    Default Ways that webmasters can fight gambling addiction

    Hi

    Just one topic to raise - are you as gambling website owners doing anything special to detect problem gamblers and to help these people? Beside links to Gambler Anonymous etc. These people are the dark side of this industry. I am interested more in ideas how to help them rather than general discussion whether it is "their fault" or "industries fault"

    I tried to make this post on some general gambling addiction forums but it was immediately deleted as inappropriate

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    Without trying to pass the buck, I think it's the responsibility of the bookies. Heard a sad story the other day about someone I know who gambled away €150K, which he had received as a work related injury payout.

    The bookies are quick to limit your account when you win too much, but I've never heard of them limiting accounts when you lose too much. There needs to be some legislation on it, these self imposed limits that the bookies offer are insufficient.

    Affiliates are mostly compliant when it comes to Bet Responsibly warnings, links to Gamble Aware...etc, which is as much as they can do at the point of entry.

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    Is it possible to get people off hard drugs even after years of rehab.

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    Those links are bullshit. It's a bit like "Hey, let's post this link then we do not have to care, because with this link we show we care".

    I have no insights in who my traffic exactly is. GDPR rules. I see in the stats people playing but no clue who they exactly are. Some don't play too much, but who knows what they're doing at other brands without my tag. Some play a lot, but I got no clue about their financial situation.

    I think it's up to authorities to create a legal framework in which player protection has a place, up to brands to follow it and up to authorities to fine or revoke a license if somebody isn't doing that.

    If I have evidence a brand is abusing problem players, I lower their rating. Also, if visitors comment or mail, I sometimes tell them to seek help instead believing in another ridiculous theory.

    I also try to provide correct information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple7 View Post
    Those links are bullshit. It's a bit like "Hey, let's post this link then we do not have to care, because with this link we show we care".
    Exactly! Does anyone have any stats how many visitors read the terms placed on our websites before clicking on the links? The responsibility is on bookmakers, they must play fair, like Deano said, they don't limit accounts if the player lose big money, vice versa, they encourage them play more and deposit more with new bonuses and promotions.

    Even if we display all terms and conditions of the bonuses and mention 1000 times about responsible gambling, it will not enforce the gamblers to play more responsibly that they think it does, the operators must have good will and some tools to protect and "control" them.

    Instead, representatives of the operators, the affiliate programs, send us ton of emails to display the terms of bonuses everywhere they appear to show that they are doing their job and avoid the responsibility. Of course we must do our best too, but it is not correct to try to share the responsibility with us. I think many of them will use this situation for closing many "unnecessary" affiliate accounts.

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    No, I'm not doing anything special about problem gamblers or to detect these people. I'm a casino webmaster who simply just advertises reputable casinos and what they're about. At the end of the day, it is really up to the gamblers involved what they want to do and the decisions that they make. We're all adults and should be able to decide for ourselves what we want and if we want to be smart gamblers and not gamble all our money away. They're all aware that they should gamble responsibly, just like they know they shouldn't get drunk or deal with drugs. We need to help each other by talking about our problems and not holding back on anything that we have bottled up inside. Repression is very bad. Gambling addicts or any other addicts for that matter, need to seek professional advice and help if their addictive gambling ruins their lives and affects those who are close to them. Everyone has "responsibilities."

    This site offers help to addictive gamblers: https://www.gamblingtherapy.org/
    Last edited by Cash Bonus; 6 September 2018 at 5:06 pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vtyunby65 View Post
    At the end of the day, it is really up to the gamblers involved what they want to do and the decisions that they make. We're all adults and should be able to decide for ourselves what we want and if we want to be smart gamblers and not gamble all our money away. They're all aware that they should gamble responsibly, just like they know they shouldn't get drunk or deal with drugs.
    Completly ignored the point of the post again, but at least you got another generic response to add to your post count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cross View Post
    Hi

    Just one topic to raise - are you as gambling website owners doing anything special to detect problem gamblers and to help these people? Beside links to Gambler Anonymous etc. These people are the dark side of this industry. I am interested more in ideas how to help them rather than general discussion whether it is "their fault" or "industries fault"

    I tried to make this post on some general gambling addiction forums but it was immediately deleted as inappropriate
    Not sure what we can do ourselfs. We don't get any personal information on the customers you refer.

    For the programs where you can view individual players activity, if a player loses a large amount if money you have no idea if he has lost his life savings or is just a whale.

    The bookies need to be responsible in protecting vulnerable players. Hense the recent 888 fine.

    Personally if I meet someone and they ask about what I do etc. I never encourage people to gamble, in fact the opposite I will tell them to stay away from it all.

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    If the webmaster is not an idiot, he wants the rich, stupid and desperate gamblers to register and squeeze all the money out of him. The same wants the bookies as well.

    I see no reason to write an article which:
    - most likely everybody will ignore
    - if it is not being ignored, it will cost me big money on missed profit

    Weak people make me sick. And it is not just gamblers. It is also gambling affiliates who can not handle their own guilt, so they need to pretend that they are helping people for which they provide the tools for destruction.

    I understand that the states must behave schizophrenically and pretend that they are helping to the weak, because only that way the weak do not revolt or change anything. I also understand that some people who want to be perceived as nice people, have the messiah complex, so they want to "help" gamblers to get some points as good citizens.

    But there is a zero reason that webmasters should do this. It is like being a tipster and tell people "you know, I pulled the tips out of my ass" - which is what the tipsters do. Or being a dealer of heroin and trying to persuade people that 80% of your customers will be killed and the rest 20% will ruin their lives completely. It makes no sense to be contradictory to yourself.

    Rather help yourself with the guilt and if you have no balls for this go doing a guide in national park or a nurse.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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    a bit of analogy (for the 18+ and gambleaware nonsenses, which must be displayed at exactly the same sense, as in communism everywhere had to be written Workers of the world, unite!):

    Havel uses the example of a greengrocer who displays in his shop the sign Workers of the world, unite!. Since failure to display the sign could be seen as disloyalty, he displays it and the sign becomes not a symbol of his enthusiasm for the regime, but a symbol of both his submission to it and humiliation by it.

    ...

    Individuals at each level within the bureaucracy must display their own equivalent of the grocer's Workers of the world, unite! sign, oppressing those below them and in turn oppressed by those above.
    I understand that we all must show this nonsense (along with Cookies bar, GDPR bullsh1t and so on). Ok. But we really do not have to believe it.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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    As an affiliate, it's not my responsibility to take on the role of a concerned welfare worker who wants to find and save gambling addicts. Just like it's not the responsibility of the liquor store manager to try and help every alcoholic that walks into his shop. Besides, unless a person genuinely wants to help himself, then no one can help him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vardan View Post
    Exactly! Does anyone have any stats how many visitors read the terms placed on our websites before clicking on the links?
    I do not have that stats, but I guess that at best people are just scanning it quickly.

    I have a direct link to an exclusion form at one of my websites. This form is on certain pages that are about problem gambling or risky behavior.

    5,8% of the visitors of that pages click on that link. I guess Gamble Aware links on random pages that are not linked to problem gambling would score way and way less than that.

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    What is a gambling addict (who is genuine about quitting) doing, visiting online gambling sites in the first place?
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    Years ago there was an episode @ 888 where I went little bit nuts and gambled away five figures many times over, in a very short time frame... 4-6 hours maybe. While poker was/is my bread & butter, these losses didn't come from poker. Not something to be proud of - people make mistakes, that was mine, I take responsibility, life goes on... Next day someone from 888 reached out to me via e-mail and asked me if I'm ok; if I need any help or want to talk about it (because of my huge losing session day before). I told them I was ok, really, which was not true and that was it.
    So this industry is not completely full of scumbags. I wonder what kind of help he would have provided if I told the truth. I bet it was not sending me my deposits back haha.
    What should affiliates do? I don't see how knocking on the conscious of problem gamblers is something affiliate webmasters should be worried about. It is impossible to help addicts, unless they want to help themselves. And this mostly happens when they have hit rock bottom. It's not like somebody on my website who was searching for some Cleopatra slots free spins or whatever, sees Gamblers Anonymous logo in the footer and says 'you know what, actually, gambling is bad and I stop now; seeing this logo is what finally convinced me'. That's all obvious bullshit but I guess it helps some people sleep at night.

    Only thing gambling affiliates can do is to promote decent brands and just hope problem gamblers get help there when they might need it. This same website community is promoting quasar/burnbet/cool-cat etc sh1thole casinos. Let's just stop lying to ourselves that we are a wholesome bunch.

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    Many of the "not my problem" replies to this thread exemplify why I rarely rub shoulders with other affiliate webmasters, and don't participate much in forums like this one.

    Cross, to answer your question:

    (1) In three separate sections of every one of my pages, I have a small section on problem gambling, including a hotline #, a link to an online help page, a link to some eye-opening horror stories, and a warning that Parkinson's drugs encourage gambling. A friend of mine with Parkinson's ruined his life when he suddenly gambling everything he had away shortly after starting his drug regimen, even though he had no prior history of gambling. Drug manufacturers knew of the risk but omitted warnings from the drug instructions at first.

    (2) I wrote an article exploring why people gamble, and why some gamble to excess: https://vegasclick.com/gambling/why-gamble
    Except: "For years it's been fashionable to blame addicts for their addiction. I can control myself, the thinking goes, so why can't they? Well, the difference is that the way some people's brains are simply wired make them extremely susceptible to addiction. The reason you're not an addict isn't because you're the paragon of self-control; you're not an addict because you got lucky biologically. Other people haven't been so lucky."

    (3) I've called for specific reforms of casinos' predatory practices. This won't do much unless and until I have the funds & time to start a nonprofit to lobby for such reforms, but it's an idea of where to start: https://vegasclick.com/casinos/reforms
    To my knowledge, no group is pushing for those kinds of reforms. I wrote to a professor who studies gambling addiction to ask if he knew of any, but didn't hear back.

    About this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock
    If the webmaster is not an idiot, he wants the rich, stupid and desperate gamblers to register and squeeze all the money out of him.


    Well, I guess that makes me an idiot. But I'd rather be human.

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    We have a responsible gambling page on site - and links to it from most pages.
    Other than that we do not do anything else..

    As an affiliate site, we collect no data on our players, no emails, no logins, so it's impossible to track one visit to the next.
    As such it's impossible to identify and locate individuals across multiple visits or identify a gambler of any sort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBluejay View Post

    Well, I guess that makes me an idiot. But I'd rather be human.
    Yes, doing a complete nonsense (like putting a hotline to affiliate pages) and hope it will have some effect is human. Also being contradictory is human.

    Your article is missing the point. I really know gamblers who ruined their lives. The real reason why people are stupid gamblers is not a near miss or LDW or things like that. That is like telling that people are fat because they eat too much sugar and they eat it, because it tastes good or that the sugar starts some chemical reaction in their brain. It is indeed true but it is not explaining anything.

    The reason why people are gamblers is that they do not find the inner strength in themselves, because they simply ****** up their lives outside of gambling and did not work with themselves to overcome the obstacles in their lives. Gambling itself is their escapism from their own life, because they are too weak to resolve a crucial problem or problems of their lives. So because they "solve" the problem of their life with being weak and gambling it is just logical that once they fully develop the addiction, it is very hard for them to stop.

    I repeat, I have a gambling forum, I know the reason. I personally have personally known many gamblers and they are just weak cowards. I also have fallen into gambling because I was also a coward who did not want to face the life. It was during my teens, in the end I found the power to quit and anyone can find the way, but he must understand the real reasons and he must really want to fight the reasons. Design of the slots is really not the real reason why we are vulnerable to gambling.

    Much later during my pro/winning career I thought I am in the safe zone, in control of everything. I remember I lost many thousands in few minutes at Cris roulette as I got blackout. I was going there just to cover up my bets to look more like an idiot to not get the betting limit from the bookie (the biggest obstacles of winning gamblers are lowering of the limits). Yet I lost control, because I was simply weak (even when there were some proxy reasons in my head like I was sure my martingale will actually win, even when I thought I am ok with small loss).

    It is better to not write articles like you wrote. There is 0.001% chance that some gambler will actually read it, but if he does, he would have one more excuse for his habit.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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    Was about to respond to the hogwash wizardofodds guy wrote but sherlock put it straight.

    Altria and Phillip Morris and others in big tobacco spend billions on good causes too. They're also not idiots, and want to remain human.

    Self righteous cockameme that comes out of some people in this industry is even worst than the problem itself.

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    My honest fear is that certain jurisdictions will start regulating affiliates in this respect. Some responsible gambling regulations may already been overboard, but it could be the case that regulators turn their guns on affiliates too, maybe arguing that they should also be responsible to oversee their clients' well being in this respect.

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    Very interesting read and I can understand both perspectives, such as casino affiliates not putting in too much effort but I'll explain what I do with problem gamblers.

    I create basketball algorithms for sports betting and I mail out tips to subscribers and also have a web app on my website that shows predictions ect. One of my biggest focuses in my service is problem gambling. There's 2 types of clients who sign up for my services. Type A is professional gamblers in different sports such as horse racing who are looking to expand into basketball and can see that I provide serious content, and type B is problem gamblers who are looking for easy money because they don't know how to create algorithms or generally make poor decisions. I go into a deep explanation to these people that you should not be addicted to betting, the only thing you should be addicted to is the success, and that means only placing bets with a proven profit on turnover and not betting for days or weeks at a time if there's nothing that fits to be a long term profitable bet. I also tell these people that this isn't for everyone who doesn't have the right mentality for it, and that identifying this is a form of success, and if that means quitting then so be it.
    this has resulted in a large drop of numbers in my subscription service, it has also resulted in some of them quitting gambling when they couldn't quit before and many have thanked me for it. So the only clients I now have are professionals in other sports and those who were mugs before but have come to understand what it takes to be successful in betting. Personally, having those addicts quit gambling because I helped them understand that if they keep doing what they are doing will destroy them, that to me is much, much more valuable to me then any sum of money. Because I was once an addict and it nearly killed me, and to stop people going through what I went through and what I did to myself is priceless.

    I will say though, with my affiliate links I only have affiliate links that I make money from turnover, or there's one bookmaker I advertise that I profit on losses, but I advertise it with arbitrage guides to abuse their promotions. I personally do not want to make money from true losses, I want to help my clients win. Unfortunately this is a game where someone will always lose, but if 98% of gamblers lose then I can do my part with my clients to make sure they aren't part of the 98%. It's obviously different for different businesses such as casino affiliates but that's how I operate my business. I talk to my clients regularly and I can safely say I do not have any gambling addicts in my services.

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