What do you think of the CAP banning frenzy?

[kwblue]

No.
You don't get to belittle affiliates who have valid complaints of misstreatment.
You don't get to bully people into silence.
Not anymore.

I was going to post, but I re-read and decided that Fergie said it all very well.

[matted]

I had the pleasure of meeting Mojo last year... And she is just as nice and thoughtful in person as in the forums... I absolutely cannot believe anyone would try to shame her. It actually is really offending to me.

So - one thing I find interesting is the lack of affiliate manager discussion in this thread. Let's face it - THEY have the power of the purse. If they remove their sponsorship, things will change. And with the industry the way it is - now is a great time - very few new affs getting into the market, and the existing ones are not going to drop you if they are showing success with the program.

Personally, I'd love to see an extra $24K per year into affiliate benefits, whether that be better marketing tools, another AM to work with affs, or holiday presents OR - at the very least, a greater emphasis working with GPWA webmasters!

[arkyt]

Personally, I'd love to see an extra $24K per year into affiliate benefits, whether that be better marketing tools, another AM to work with affs, or holiday presents

AGREED! Put the money into the industry instead of into another party (conference/convention) that does little but further the cause of a very small group of people.

Have wondered for years how programs can afford to pay out those type of sponsorship fees on top of going to conferences every other month ... really backs up the "conference affect theory" where by the greater percentage of affiliates see a decline in earnings during the month in or around that of conferences. Truly the industry could do without them for at least a year or two - unifying and organzation is what the industry needs; not another drink that lets one group brag about throwing the best parties!

[aksana]

I was not so active member at PAP, but I was there. Today I tried to log into my account, and... my account was not found. I tried to request my login details using a "Forgot Password" form, and my email address was not found in their database, although every week I receive PAP newsletters to my email address.

I tried to find myself in the member list and I didn't find myself.
I even didn't know that my account was removed at PAP. I didn't receive any emails from them regarding my account at PAP. But how about my posts at PAP? I didn't remember them, but I know I had them. And I suppose they were removed.

And if I don't have an account at PAP, and my email address is not found in their database why do I receive weekly PAP newsletters?

[kwblue]

And if I don't have an account at PAP, and my email address is not found in their database why do I receive weekly PAP newsletters?

My guess (just a guess) is yes. They use iContact, a web-based newsletter/email service. This means that they have to take their member information and import them into their iContact database. So - unless they prune that, you will receive emails.

I would think that they probably have forgotten to do that, but maybe will read this and remember

As an FYI - I think most people would forget about that since it is a separate system entirely.... so I wouldn't blame them too much if you still receive a newsletter. Simply unsubscribe and you won't get the email again.

[alexpratt]

I swore I wouldn’t reply in this thread again but I am struggling to sit back and watch assumptions being thrown around throughout it that just aren’t true and therefore driving the rumour mill and also the posts.

Firstly as you know I am associated with CAP in terms of the events, mag and other projects but people who know me online and offline also know I’m a pretty decent person so what I write below isn’t because I work with CAP its because I believe passionately in this niche within gaming (affiliate marketing) and really like the people in it and the business we do and just want this to conclude so we can get on.

I also have no interest in commenting on the whole CAP vs GPWA thing because I think it is pointless and being driven for reasons that I personally think aren’t good and are just actually upsetting a lot of people.

Right – Just a few points

Arksana – You probably can’t log into PAP because when they moved PAW to PAP all the old PAP people had to set up new accounts so don’t worry you haven’t been “banned”

Banning /Frenzy – Judging by this poll 18 people have been banned – Which to me is not a frenzy considering that is over many years and is from over 7,000 members of which 3,500 are active – Of those banned I don’t know exact facts and remember a few which to me were justified – Others may not have been – If so and if you care so much then what would have been better would to have contacted an independent person such as me and appeal it – After the heat of the moment many people will rethink their actions – I am sure there is still time so please PM or email me and I will do my best for you
Most of the posts in this thread are based on complete assumptions – None of you know the true facts including me – I do know that if you knew half of it a lot of you would re think some of your posts – It is not for me to post these facts but personally I wouldn’t jump to conclusions in any circumstances offline and online
Mojo et al – If you came to a CAP event of course you would get in – I welcome all affiliates to the event that want to do business, have a good time and learn more – This is what our events are fundamentally about

JTodd was not banned because CAP was launching CAP TV – And on that note how can adding video be stealing – If you don’t have video then you are missing out on a massive part of online – Is onlinecasinoreports.com stealing, are the hundreds of affiliates that do video for either players or affiliates stealing. Did CAP kick off when Jtodd had casinoaffiliateprogram.com advertising in his videos when he had a space on the CAP site or when GIA or many of the other smaller affiliate forums launch. Or when GPWA launched their magazine? I can go on for but if you are running your business well then you should always be looking to add new features – whether these are already out there or not – With my poker site should I shy away from adding a forum, a free roll monitor, a tournament calendar, a calculator, a weekly video for the players, etc, etc. No I have to otherwise I miss out on moving my site forward

I also don’t understand this whole CAP is a big business that only cares about the bottom line....I can only talk about the events and mag but let’s take the events – I was there from the very start and the priority was always to make the event the best ever experience for affiliates even if this meant our costs were huge and our profit was low – So we did new things like letting all affiliates in free, providing free bars all afternoon in the expo room, hosting a free poker tournament with $20k+ worth of prizes, paying for the best speakers, putting on parties when there was no sponsors, helping passionate CAP members out with their flight or hotel room etc etc. Even now I spend all hours of my day working my ass off to ensure we continue this philosophy and deliver you both value and the best experience ever! If really cared about the $$ we would simply cut back and put on event like every other industry event out there from gambling to engineering.

I could go on and on but this post is turning into an essay but I do want to finish with some perspective – I know this thread is very important to you guys for different reasons – Some obvious some not so obvious and to be honest I think it’s being driven for the wrong reasons but hey thats just my opinion but PLEASE let’s get some perspective – This thread has had 5556 views and over 100 posts – Is it really that important? Hopefully the below helps with some perspective

Kentucky take domains
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/kentucky-seizes-domain-names-internet-gambling-sites-177191.htmlm 1673 views 57 posts

Micro pull out of US
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/all-microgaming-casinos-pulling-out-usa-177645.html 253 views 9 posts

Neteller guys arrested
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/neteller-169144.html 1828 views 26 posts

UIEGA is sneaked through on the Ports Security Act
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/u-s-congresses-passes-i-gaming-prohibition-168130.html 5 posts and 7,000+ views

David Caruthers is arrested
http://www.gpwa.org/forum/betonsports-com-chief-detained-167492.html 3 posts 55 views

I really think we need to ask ourselves what are we trying to gain from this thread and have you gained that and will you gain that?

I am now off to Sydney to run CAP DownUnder - Good luck with this thread I really hope when I log into GPWA next the chat is all about link exchanges, industry news, website reviews, outing dodgy spammers and maybe a few jokes because that truly is what these forums are about at the end of the day.

[pgaming]

Geese Pratt, how about CAP begins treating affiliates with a once of dignity for starters? I agree the discussion is pointless like trying to tell the Taliban Democracy is a good thing.

You people are a one-man show. If stealing ideas is okay then I will help myself.

pgaming

[Rhino]

I agree with some parts of your post Alex.
I'd like to also add that I've seen the term "Board Wars" being tossed around - it's not helping.
But it might be an affiliates way to show his angst and frustration with forum owners and their actions.

This thread has had 5556 views and over 100 posts – Is it really that important?

Yes.
Perhaps not as important as what has been happening to the industry in the past few years. But yes, it is important.

Why?
Affiliates and Advertising Companies are the driving force in this industry. Just like Casinos and Poker rooms need us to survive, GPWA, CAP, PAP and AGD need us to survive.

We the affiliates are the reason why these forums exist and are here. And just like Casino and Poker operators, GPWA, CAP, PAP and AGD's actions, ethics, and the way they conduct business will be talked about publicly.

[pgaming]

This thread has had 5556 views and over 100 posts – Is it really that important?

That's right Pratt because it is important.

pgaming

[mojo]

Mojo et al – If you came to a CAP event of course you would get in – I welcome all affiliates to the event that want to do business, have a good time and learn more – This is what our events are fundamentally about

Hi Alex, I want to thank you for coming by. I know it's difficult but I feel it's important to express ourselves and the best way to hopefully improve things. I honestly didn't know if I would be welcome at a conference or not. Thank you for addressing that. I do feel you are a decent person.

Although there are 18 bans showing here there are many many more that have not posted here. There is a recent rash of bans at PAP that has left your members terrified to post. The poker affilate managers must be shaking their heads.

Is this important? Absolutly. Humiliation to the member hurts the individual affliate. You also are affecting their livlihood by cutting off communication with their managers and peers. Seemingly without a 2nd thought. Again, affiiate Managers must be be shaking their heads! Coupled with this post by Arjun yesterday:

Glad you guys were banned

Who then btw, went and posted in the "Cap Conferences" thread hosted here by the GPWA.
So you can understand why I would not go to a CAP conference.

CAP is free to handle things any way that you like. And Affiliates are free to speak up on our concerns without fear.

Thank you for replying Alex. It is a positive step and perhaps we are being heard if nothing else.

[Captain]

Hey Everyone,
Over the past 3 years I have not posted much as I used to back in the good old days. Many here and at CAP including affiliate managers/programs were very supportive of Patty, Melissa, and I tragedy of losing Jessica. I know times are tough for most with all that has happened in the industry. It seems there is not much good news these days.

I have personally been best friends with Lou over many years and will be for many years to come. It saddens me to see all the hatred. Lou has done a lot for many here including my family and I. It will never be forgotten by the Leonard family.

[MichaelCorfman]

Hey Everyone,
Over the past 3 years I have not posted much as I used to back in the good old days. Many here and at CAP including affiliate managers/programs were very supportive of Patty, Melissa, and I tragedy of losing Jessica. I know times are tough for most with all that has happened in the industry. It seems there is not much good news these days.

I have personally been best friends with Lou over many years and will be for many years to come. It saddens me to see all the hatred. Lou has done a lot for many here including my family and I. It will never be forgotten by the Leonard family.

Captain,

I've always felt that Lou's support of you and others in similiar situations was an example to hold up of the way people should help one another. I don't think anything in these discussions can or should take away from that. Lou has my utmost respect for the way he has helped you over the years.

I think part of what you are seeing in these forums is that when relations change from being about caring for one another to a place where people feel like they are not respected or cared about, the result is a very different one. I think the discussions here have reinforced to everyone the importantance of treating affiliates with respect. And out of that I think has come a very good thing in the formation of the Affiliate Forum Alliance where we are working to establish principles and philosophies about how to operate affiliate forums in a way that is transparent and reflects and cares about affililiates. In my opinion, one of the most important areas of work for the alliance will be to establish some basic principles of respect and transparency that can guide all forums who follow them through the sometimes difficult and tense situations that arise when there are conflicts in viewpoints, particularly where those conflicts might rise to a level where a member might be banned from a community in which they have been a participant. Personally, I've learned some things in this thread that I believe will be important for the Alliance to include in a code of conduct for affiliate forum moderators and operators relating to the changing of avatars, the editing of posts, and misposting under the accounts of others.

Michael

[Dominique]

I have been reading this thread all along and I resolved not to post here, there is a lot of irony here for me, and older GPWA members will know what I mean.

But I feel the need to respond to the "CAP is not warm and fuzzy" sentiment.

I find it quite warm and fuzzy. In recent times CAP members came together to help one fellow affiliate avoid forclosure, keep another from being homeless after being forclosed on, facilitated parents visiting their deadly ill daughter in a far away hospital and at least spend the last few weeks of her life with her, and fix a car that was essential to one member's getting to their full time job.

I definitely call that warm and fuzzy. I don't think it's fair to paint the affiliates at CAP in a negative way. They look out for each other and care for each other with more than just words.

Reading this thread, it sounds like the affiliates at CAP are a cold, uncaring bunch with nothing but their own profit in mind.

I think their actions speak for themselves.

[MichaelCorfman]

In recent times CAP members came together to help one fellow affiliate avoid forclosure, keep another from being homeless after being forclosed on, facilitated parents visiting their deadly ill daughter in a far away hospital and at least spend the last few weeks of her life with her, and fix a car that was essential to one member's getting to their full time job.

I definitely call that warm and fuzzy. I don't think it's fair to paint the affiliates at CAP in a negative way. They look out for each other and care for each other with more than just words.

Thanks for saying that Dom - I agree with you 110%. I think most affiliates, just like most people, are good at heart, and that shows through.

I'd like to say for the record that I do not support any statement made in this thread that implies anything negative about affiliates participating in any of the various affiliate forums. And if anything I have said has been interpreted that way please understand that is not nor never was my intent.

I started this thread because I think it is important that we support one another and because I felt a practice of banning had developed that is inconsistent with the way we should work together and I wanted to do what I could to try to put a stop to it.

Over the longer term I believe the Affiliate Forum Alliance that was recently created will be heavily influenced by the discussion that has taken place in this thread, and in that fashion I believe that a lot of good will come out of this thread even though some of the posts may have appeared to be tearing things apart rather than putting them together.

Michael

[Captain]

Hey Steve,
I am very sorry to hear about your Dad. I feel your loss my good friend.

Love One Love All

[Captain]

God Loves Us All

[TheCPA]

I wasn't going to enter the fray here, and I'm not going to now either, but with all the talk about the good things that the forums do, I wanted to ask for your support for one of our guys.

This is just heartbreaking to read, and I believe Tony is a GPWA member, and maybe a CAP member too.

If you don't want to use your known username, that's cool, use a fake one, but how about giving this wonderful guy some words of encouragement in a really tough time.

He isn't looking for money or anything like that, just some friends to lean on.

http://www.gamblingindustryassociati...1258#post11258

Thanks,
Nick

[Rhino]

I am curious on people thoughts about this,

1. Should forums like GPWA and CAP be answerable to affiliates in anyway?
2. What if any responsibilities do GPWA and CAP have to forum members?

[Captain]

Are you fucking idiot!

[Captain]

I am sorry for saying this!