What do you think of the CAP banning frenzy?

[mojo]

I am curious on people thoughts about this,

1. Should forums like GPWA and CAP be answerable to affiliates in anyway?
2. What if any responsibilities do GPWA and CAP have to forum members?

Those are good questions. This may be a good place to stop and start a new topic. Also, adding all forums in general including the ones in the Alliance.

[Captain]

Hey Evevewryone,

i LOVE YOU FERGIE

[Captain]

http://jessica-leonard.memory-of.com/About.aspx

[Captain]

i AM HUMBLED

[Rhino]

Those are good questions. This may be a good place to stop and start a new topic. Also, adding all forums in general including the ones in the Alliance.

I've always wondered where GPWA and CAP responsibilites lie, especially when it comes to forum members.

Obviously they have a respobsibility to their staff, shareholders / investors.
But what responsibilties to forum members.

Is there some sort of forum charter on expectations to its members?

[Captain]

i AM ALWAYS IN SPIRED

[mojo]

I've always wondered where GPWA and CAP responsibilites lie, especially when it comes to forum members.

Obviously they have a respobsibility to their staff, shareholders / investors.
But what responsibilties to forum members.

Is there some sort of forum charter on expectations to its members?

I believe that is the idea here:

http://www.gpwa.org/forum/alliance-f...wa-177845.html

It will address the needs of the affliates/members. It is still being developed so I think we do have a chance for input.

[Captain]

tHANK gOD i AHVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

[Captain]

Hey All,
I am so into you!

[MichaelCorfman]

http://jessica-leonard.memory-of.com/About.aspx

Captain,

Thanks for posting the link to Jessica's memorial site.

Jessica was a beautiful young woman, and I can't imagine how hard it is to live with her loss. I've visited the site a few times before and I visited it again tonight and lit a candle for her.

Take it easy Captain.

For those of you who might not know, the third anniversary of Jessica's fatal car accident was just a few days ago.

Michael

[GamTrak]

You see, I've been banned from CAP even though I have never made a post there that could justify such a banning. And I've also been removed from the CAP group on LinkedIn and I've also been removed multiple times from the CAP group on Facebook.

Hi Michael,

While I understand that you are upset about being banned and therefore want folks to believe that CAP is in the wrong, I'd feel better knowing the reason you were banned so that I can judge who is right/wrong for myself.

I don't think I've seen you post that reason unless it's a secret or I've missed it.

Are you saying that you did nothing to get banned? Are you also saying that JTodd did nothing wrong and was banned for no reason?

[MichaelCorfman]

Hi Michael,

While I understand that you are upset about being banned and therefore want folks to believe that CAP is in the wrong, I'd feel better knowing the reason you were banned so that I can judge who is right/wrong for myself.

I don't think I've seen you post that reason unless it's a secret or I've missed it.

Are you saying that you did nothing to get banned? Are you also saying that JTodd did nothing wrong and was banned for no reason?

I'm saying that I am not aware of any reason why I have been banned, nor have I been given any reason for being banned. Earlier in this thread Arjun suggested this thread was why I was banned, but that makes no sense since this thread was not started until after I was banned.

On the thread Nandakishore started on CAP, and referenced on this thread (which was subsequently deleted), Arjun indicated that he would give the reason why I was banned in response to a pm request for that information. My understanding is that he has been sent at least one pm requesting the reason, and that at this point in time no response has been received.

My personal belief is that I was banned because the GPWA acquired the APCW, but I have no idea whether that is actually the reason or not.

Michael

[GamTrak]

My personal belief is that I was banned because the GPWA acquired the APCW, but I have no idea whether that is actually the reason or not.

Thanks for the reply. The only question I have left is why JTodd was banned. Did Lou wake up one day in a bad mood and just ban him for no reason other then possibly over this aquisition of the APCW?

Thanks for your reply.

[MichaelCorfman]

Thanks for the reply. The only question I have left is why JTodd was banned. Did Lou wake up one day in a bad mood and just ban him for no reason other then possibly over this aquisition of the APCW?

Thanks for your reply.

Both J.Todd and Anthony of the APCW were banned. The reason was definitely not because the GPWA acquired the APCW because the ban was put in place long before that happened.

As I understand it, there was a conversation between J.Todd and a member of CAP who is close to the CAP management team one evening, and in that conversation J.Todd talked about how he hoped the APCW would grow, and that he hoped to have a big stand at a CAP conference with the APCW near the entrance for all to see. I'm told the CAP member member with whom the conversation took place was in a good mood that night, having had a few drinks like many of us do from time to time.

The story as relayed to me is that CAP management was subsequently told that the APCW had visions they would become more important than CAP, and that both J.Todd and Anthony were consequently banned without there first being any direct communication with them about what was said.

J.Todd has told me there were subsequent communications with CAP management where he refuted the concept that APCW with its limited budget thought it could ever become competitive with CAP, and that he had just expressed wanting to grow and have a big presence at CAP.

But as I understand it the ban remained, and the APCW was subsequently told they could sell out to CAP or be crushed. And discussions about CAP acquiring them took place in the context of both of the principles of APCW being banned so they would appreciate what it meant not to have the support of CAP.

It was in that context that the APCW accepted an offer to become a sister organization to the GPWA.

Michael

[Ricbyrne]

All Forum Administrators have the power to ban anyone at any time, with or without just cause. I would not ban a member of my forum before I gave them a warning that I’m not happy with their behavior and if it continues, they will be banned!

If you are banned from a forum, one would expect it is for just cause. But to never be given a reason for the banning is not acceptable behavior. Which brings me to my point! I have witnessed that there are certain individuals, in our Industry, that think they are above reproach! They really feel that they don’t have to answer to anybody because they have been in the industry for a very long time and have achieved, what many conceive as a position of power.

For example if I want to blacklist a site or declare it rogue, I have to be able to back up my comments with facts and data that support my actions. Than again I have seen upper Industry people just post “I declare so and so site rogue “(not in them exact words), and leave it at that. We are all expected to take them at their word, without them giving evidence to support their remark. What’s that all about?

This mentality also applies to banning! What ever happened to mutual respect? Respect for each other should maintained and displayed regardless of status.

[republican]

Umm. Have anyone else here noticed the hundreds of people getting banned at Poker Affiliate Programs this week!?! I think there is more people being banned there than ever at CAP!

A lot of people there were kicked out for no good reason and cannot post at all anymore. There are so many members scared to post or even go to the forums now!

[TheCPA]

I appreciate that explanation of how the APCW was aquired.
In the interest of fairness here however, let's try to get the facts ironed out.

Fair enough? Can we stick to the THREAD Topic??? LOL

I refuse to take sides on this SPECIFIC issue as it pertains to the banning of the GPWA staff.
There is some responsibility on both sides, IMO.
There are things that CAP does that I don't care for, and the same applies for the GPWA.

I'm not on Lou's Christmas list, and he's not on mine either, but over the years we have learned to "Tolerate" each other, so that's not all bad, IMO.

Lou IS without a doubt too heavy handed on the Ban Button.
Sorry Lou, but that is a fact!

I understand protecting your interests, but you have occassionally gone a little too far in doing so. JMO.

That said, according to Micheal, it appears that there was a fairly major fallout between CAP and the APCW.
Before this, the APCW felt that CAP was the next best thing since Ice Cream.
Clearly something occurred there that wasn't pleasant between the APCW and CAP.
Now the APCW thinks CAP Sucks after several years of working with them.

Enter the GPWA at this time of distress for the APCW, and buys the site outright.

OK, that's fine, however, if the GPWA was interested, or concerned about a healthy relationship with CAP,....then perhaps there should have been some discussions between Lou and Micheal prior to this transaction taking place on the APCW.

Lou clearly had a HUGE hand in helping the APCW make it's mark to begin with. I don't think anyone on either side of this dispute can deny that.

None of what I just said means that I think it's OK for CAP to pressure or bully any small time site to sell to them at a lessor price than they can get elsewhere!!!!
That's bullshit.
That's NOT OK in my book and never will be.

However, considering the simple fact that APCW gained much of it's notoriety via CAP, which as of today, is the most traveled Gambling Affiliate Forum, then I can understand why Lou might have been pissed off that the GPWA didn't at least discuss the situation first.

Not that the GPWA had any obligation to discuss it BTW, but it might have been a good idea to do so if the goal was to maintain an ongoing working relationship with CAP at their Forum, and at their Conference Events.
It appears they do according to the initial complaint that started this thread.

Clearly Cap felt betrayed, and took the action they did.

After watching this for days now, the APCW buyout is the only conclusion I can make as to WHY the GPWA Staff was banned from the CAP Forum.
I didn't think that was a question mark to begin with actually.

Thought I was done, Right!
Nope, banning the GPWA Staff from CAP Conferences is an entirely separate issue, IMO.

This is wrong,.... again, JMO.
Conferences are entirely funded by the Casino Programs, and THEY have no desire to be put in the middle of a Forum Banning issue between the two largest Gambling forums in our Industry.

While coordinated by CAP, the Conference funding is made possible by the Casinos to reach and discuss the industry with as many, and all interested parties as they possibly can. They deserve that, IMO, for the money they pay to fund these events!!!!!!

They would especially want those in a leadership role,{Like Micheal}, without regard to the lessor personal issues surrounding "Forum Bans" or beating the other guy out on the buy out of a website.
That's my personal take on this whole thing, and I am not representing anyone other than myself in this post.

There is responsibilty on BOTH sides on this dispute.
JMO, and I'm stickin to it!

Nobody is perfect, and you guys aren't either, so let's all take some responsibility here, do what's ethically correct, morally decent, and work together to keep the Train rolling down the track!!!!

As the TWO Major Affiliate Leaders in the Industry, this will rightfully start with BOTH of you!
Do the right thing for the Industry, and put the personal hurts, and goals aside this time.

Thank You and Good Night!

[Jinnia]

Now I remember why I quit going to Sunday mass ... the looooooooong sermons ....

I see no reason, what so ever, for GPWA to have discussed this with CAP.

From my reading of this thread, CAP had the chance to obtain APCW, but lost it by wanting to not pay what it was worth, at least
what APCW thought it was worth. APCW had the right to go with the highest bidder, and evidently, that was GPWA.

CAP banning GPWA over this, which seems the reason, is just completely immature! A temper tantrum in motion!

[mojo]

You were even in Barcelona this year where you tampered with and ultimately stole the JV agreement we had with APCW.

I think Professor already said that way back on page one.

Regardless, I'm not even in that league so that's between them.

This thread asks what do you think of the banning frenzy. Obviously us smaller affiliates are scared, angry and humiliated by these events. It is affecting our livlihood and making us look bad. I would just like to see the leaders help us solve this please.

[MichaelCorfman]

Enter the GPWA at this time of distress for the APCW, and buys the site outright.

OK, that's fine, however, if the GPWA was interested, or concerned about a healthy relationship with CAP,....then perhaps there should have been some discussions between Lou and Micheal prior to this transaction taking place on the APCW.

I think the time of distresss description is misleading. In my opinion the continued banning of APCW almost certainly was designed to force a decision by the APCW to sell at a bargain price. However, it later evolved into a competitive bidding situation that went on over a period of a couple months, and that is never a bad situation for a seller. CAP was well aware that we were talking with the APCW, and they adjusted their offer in that context in Barcelona.

There were discussions between CAP and GPWA in Barcelona, and the result of those discussions was clarity around the fact that the level of cooperation CAP would engage in with the GPWA was going to decrease substantially. I didn't view that there was any acrimony at all at the time, just that there was no interest retaining any sort of proactive working relationship.

Michael