What do you think of the CAP banning frenzy?

[TheCPA]

CAP was well aware that we were talking with the APCW

That's important since you indicated earlier in the thread you feel that CAP should not ban you from the conferences.

If there were no backdoor dealings surrounding the purchase, and no Joint Venture agreement in place between CAP and the APCW, then there should be no hard feelings with the outcome.

the result of those discussions was clarity around the fact that the level of cooperation CAP would engage in with the GPWA was going to decrease substantially.

Clearly the bidding process strained the Conference relationship.
I don't guess they have an obligation to afford a competitor free space at their conferences, so I suppose that's not a big issue.
However, I stand by my sermon, , when I said the GPWA Staff should not be banned from attending those events.

[Jinnia]

That's important since you indicated earlier in the thread you feel that CAP should not ban you from the conferences.

If there were no backdoor dealings surrounding the purchase, and no Joint Venture agreement in place between CAP and the APCW, then there should be no hard feelings with the outcome.

I do agree with that!!

However, I stand by my sermon, ,

Hahahaha .....

[GamTrak]

As I understand it, there was a conversation between J.Todd and a member of CAP who is close to the CAP management team one evening, and in that conversation J.Todd talked about how he hoped the APCW would grow, and that he hoped to have a big stand at a CAP conference with the APCW near the entrance for all to see. I'm told the CAP member member with whom the conversation took place was in a good mood that night, having had a few drinks like many of us do from time to time.

That conversation right there SEEMS to be a missing piece, and (the core of the problem). If the person that talked to JTodd was drunk then it means that JTodd's story is 100% truthful and the CAP member is lying?

That is where I get lost because it does not make since that he would get banned for anything like that. Something else happened and only JTodd and CAP member can tell us, otherwise we don't have the true story.

[Anthony]

TheCPA

I can tell you the bidding process did not strain the relationship with GPWA. Lack of cooperation with GPWA was already in the works.
CAP was going to acquire APCW or produce their own videos and audits
CAP was going to impose their will on AGD or produce their own T&C software
CAP was going to pressure CAC with direct competition in Amsterdam
CAP’s next target was GPWA

CAP will do whatever it takes to marginalize GPWA.
Reduce their exposure at CAP events.
Anything GPWA offers, CAP will offer the same thing (portal seals).

CAP felt that with the additional services of APCW and AGD.
GPWA would not be able to compete.
The landscape changed in a way that was not in CAP’s best interests.
So Michael got banned from CAP, and Michael got banned from conferences. Blame it on the APCW deal but it is still part of CAP’s plan, this way there is an excuse.


GamTrak

You are correct, based on the conversation JTodd and our drunken friend had, even if things got blown out of proportion, Lou could have easily picked up the phone and called JTodd and they could have talked about it. Lou and JTodd talked all the time. So it does not make sense. Unless there was an ulterior motive. I believe the banning of JTodd and myself and the removal of the APCW forum at CAP was just an excuse to put us in a weaker position to negotiate the sale of APCW to CAP. That makes more sense. Actually a very smart business move on CAP’s part.

[Anthony]

Alex, you are correct to state you do not have all the facts.

JTodd was not banned because CAP was launching CAP TV – And on that note how can adding video be stealing – If you don’t have video then you are missing out on a massive part of online – Is onlinecasinoreports.com stealing, are the hundreds of affiliates that do video for either players or affiliates stealing.

JTodd and I were not banned because CAP launched CAP TV and I do not see that was ever stated. After we were banned we were presented with a buyout offer and told to accept it or CAP would launch their own videos /audits and put us out of business.

For the record we have a great relationship with OCR, we work together. Like I stated earlier in this post, there is plenty for everyone. APCW is even helping affiliates by teaching how to put video on websites, through the GPWA conferences, because it benefits everyone. JTodd answered questions and offered advise when Casinomeister started to do videos. Cooperation over dominance.

This is about the deliberate predatory targeting CAP employs. Threatening to do their own videos and audits if we don’t sell to us. Threatening AGD to sell or they would do their own T&C Alerts. It’s the strong arm manipulation of others peoples lively hood so CAP can carve another notch in their belt.

IN MY OPINION OUR BANNING ACTUALLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING WE DID. It was a business decision by CAP to ban us as small webmasters at the time for no other purpose than to exercise control over us because it served CAP's business objectives. I don't believe webmasters have any rights at CAP when there is a conflict with business objectives.

Did CAP kick off when Jtodd had casinoaffiliateprogram.com advertising in his videos when he had a space on the CAP site…

Fact: When we ran that advertising, Lou took the APCW forum and dropped it to the basement as our punishment for selling advertising. We asked CAP if they wanted to buy the spot at a discounted rate. They told us no and ordered us to stop accepting the ads. Which we did. Again bending to CAP’s will. Taking money out of our pockets because CAP didn’t like how we ran our business.

Or when GPWA launched their magazine?

How many of us forget APCW had a magazine first? And as usual when CAP moved in, Lou told JTodd, “best of luck to you”

I was there from the very start and the priority was always to make the event the best ever experience for affiliates even if this meant our costs were huge and our profit was low – So we did new things like letting all affiliates in free…

The conferences are extremely profitable for CAP and you know it. The reason affiliates get in free was to directly target CAC and make that the basis of their marketing campaign. That was not good will.

Mojo et al – If you came to a CAP event of course you would get in – I welcome all affiliates to the event that want to do business, have a good time and learn more – This is what our events are fundamentally about…

Does this apply to everyone including me, JTodd and Michael? I hope it does because we're affiliates too and we certainly want to do business, have a good time and learn more.

[Integrity]

...according to Micheal, it appears that there was a fairly major fallout between CAP and the APCW. Before this, the APCW felt that CAP was the next best thing since Ice Cream.

I am not responding to too many things in here because I am very passionate about this subject. Therefore, I have been staying at arms length and watching the truth come out... piece by piece... from others. It's sort of funny, really, because if I were the one posting things and bringing these truths to light, there's little doubt in my mind that what I write would be doubted because of my closeness to the issues.

However, I did want to clear up the post above. It is true that CAP did help APCW when we started in 2003. CAP also helped Affiliate Guard Dog, worked with Marc Lesnick to get the CAC started, and has made their events free for GPWA Members for years. So obviously, the fact that CAP will help things get going is not in question.

What none of these people, including myself, realized was what accepting that help would mean on the backend... years later. Naturally, the APCW did what we could for CAP after the help they extended, but as we grew and gained what I believe they saw as a tiny bit of strength, things began to change.

You see, it's ok to add some value to the industry... especially when you are doing so in the CAP forums. For years, Lou thought APCW was weak... he said so to many of my friends who independently told me the same things over & over. I knew what he believed about me and my organization, but when we started to gain a bit of strength things had to change. We all know what happened next, but it's up to each of you to read into the events how you wish.

So no... we did not think CAP was the best thing since ice cream... I don't even like ice cream that much, really.... I'm more of a sherbet man! LOL! =0)

We simply had a business relationship and wanted to grow APCW... which we did with CAP's help for a while... but something happened along the way. Did we get too big? Did we really pose any threat to CAP? LOL... C'mon...

Maybe we just had something they wanted.

[kwblue]

I do want to clarify that CAP never asked to buy AGD or told us to sell or they would re-create AGD.

[Skinski]

Money and greed make some do some funny things, and it sure looks like greed might have been the culprit. As far as any site ever banning me...I could give a shit really. I come to learn and try to improve, but I bend over for no one. If it means remaining or being a broke 48 year old affiliate that never grasps the inside scoop of this business, so be it.

[MichaelCorfman]

I thought I should report that there was a little progress made earlier today. I'd like to acknowledge GamTrak for her help here - she has been asking Lou questions about what has been going on, and I believe that the questions she has been asking have helped move things to a slightly better place. I think there is still quite a ways to go, but I want to acknowlege any progress that is made in the hope that it will facilate more movement in the right direction.

As things currently stand I am no longer in a completely banned state, although my account is still very cripled (In many cases I have greater priviliges when logged out of the CAP website than I do when I am logged in).

I am now able to make a post into an existing thread, although any such posts are moderated and not displayed until after being approved.

I am also now able to change my e-mail address and am able to view pm's that I have previously sent or received.

I remain unable to do the following:

1. Search for posts (such as posts containing GPWA) to which it might be appropriate for me to respond.

2. Use the "Today's Posts" quick link to see what posts were made recently.

3. Start a new thread (not even a moderated new thread).

4. Edit my profile.

5. Send or receive private messages.

Michael

[mojo]

Mine has been changed as well. Now I am a "Senior Member". I am afraid to log in to see but I used to be "nojo, nogo, slojoe" or something like that.


mojo
Senior Member

[GamTrak]

I thought I should report that there was a little progress made earlier today.

That is good to hear Michael! I figured while I had him on the phone for some audit stuff I'd ask some questions.

[Integrity]

I truly appreciate your work, Robin.

I understand your encouragement, Michael

I, however, will never know if I am banned or unbanned or partially banned or 37.5% banned with a half-twist and a cherry on top... because I have no interest or reason to ever go back.

After all the ill-will and near hatred expressed toward me from management over there, it would be insulting to even be asked to return... not that I think they would. But who cares?

The last things I would ever want to do is give them more content, add to the value of thier site, or condone what's gone on by actually posting there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry if I just cannot as be positive about things. And I do understand, respect, and appreciate your position, Michael. But after years of enduring all of the things we've discussed privately, the thought of them "allowing me back" makes me physically ill.

I don't want to go back... I'm finally free!

.

[worthy]

I thought I should report that there was a little progress made earlier today. I'd like to acknowledge GamTrak for her help here - she has been asking Lou questions about what has been going on, and I believe that the questions she has been asking have helped move things to a slightly better place. I think there is still quite a ways to go, but I want to acknowlege any progress that is made in the hope that it will facilate more movement in the right direction.

As things currently stand I am no longer in a completely banned state, although my account is still very cripled (In many cases I have greater priviliges when logged out of the CAP website than I do when I am logged in).

I am now able to make a post into an existing thread, although any such posts are moderated and not displayed until after being approved.

I am also now able to change my e-mail address and am able to view pm's that I have previously sent or received.

I remain unable to do the following:

1. Search for posts (such as posts containing GPWA) to which it might be appropriate for me to respond.

2. Use the "Today's Posts" quick link to see what posts were made recently.

3. Start a new thread (not even a moderated new thread).

4. Edit my profile.

5. Send or receive private messages.

Michael

This isn't a progress...this is a humiliation...

[mojo]

This isn't a progress...this is a humiliation...
__________________

That is the name of the game! CAP feels it is big enough now that it can do this. For every 100 experienced webmasters that are banned, 500 new members come in. No worries!

We need affiliate manager help.

My son just started a site. This is not what I want for him.

Apologies if this is viewed as bashing. In reality it is just panic.

[worthy]

AGREED! Put the money into the industry instead of into another party (conference/convention) that does little but further the cause of a very small group of people.

Have wondered for years how programs can afford to pay out those type of sponsorship fees on top of going to conferences every other month ... really backs up the "conference affect theory" where by the greater percentage of affiliates see a decline in earnings during the month in or around that of conferences. Truly the industry could do without them for at least a year or two - unifying and organzation is what the industry needs; not another drink that lets one group brag about throwing the best parties!

Great post!
Ever wondered where the money for the CAP certification and conferences coming from?
Out from our pocket!
Our income are being shaved to cover the costs and who benefits from this?
You have only one guess!

[mojo]

Our income are being shaved to cover the costs and who benefits from this?

I agree on some points but the above is not fair to affilate managers. Shaving is a serious accusation that is not taken lightly. I do not think that programs shave to provide for a conference.

I think arkyt was saying the money could be better spent. JMO

[worthy]

Personally, I'd love to see an extra $24K per year into affiliate benefits, whether that be better marketing tools, another AM to work with affs, or holiday presents OR - at the very least, a greater emphasis working with GPWA webmasters!

I would like to see my earnings in my pocket, not anyone else's for a badge. Nobody can be fooled by these certifications anymore.
And the conferences...some of you may be happy to get a couple of free drinks at the confereces...but it is actually costs you much more...and me too...who not going anywhere. It's a rip off.

[worthy]

I agree on some points but the above is not fair to affilate managers. Shaving is a serious accusation that is not taken lightly. I do not think that programs shave to provide for a conference.

I think arkyt was saying the money could be better spent. JMO

Like ads on TV or anywhere else...they cost money for the advertiser...and that cost is built into the price...so eventually the customers paying for the ads.
So this go for the conferences and program certifications. The money has to come from somewhere. I don't think it's coming from charity.

[universal4]

Apologies if this is viewed as bashing. In reality it is just panic.

There is absolutely nothing to panic over...

Rick
Universal4

[mojo]

There is absolutely nothing to panic over...

Rick
Universal4

Could you expand? I value your opinion Rick.