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  1. #1
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    Default White label Casino

    Hi there,

    I''m currently considering starting a white label casino. Does any of you guys have experience with running one and wouldn't mind sharing some pitfalls, issues or any other input?

    I do have a steady stream of converting traffic, so I'm not worried too much about that part. My goal is to get out of the affiliate position and build a sellable asset. Is there a demand for white label casinos?

    Cheers

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    Very risky thing. Setting a white label is easy these days but the numbers you imagine or see on paper are usually far from the reality.

    If you are just building it to send your traffic there - i would say it's not worth it. The % you get might seem higher but the overall value you get from players will be much lower making it not worth it (due to luck of dedicated support, retention, etc).

    If you plan to bring also other affiliates - it's a different story but again, you encounter the problem that the market is very competitive and you will have hard time competing with fully focused brands, that have strong support, processing, retention and so forth.
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    I recently had that exact same idea but before jumping in, I did some research and managed to speak with couple of casino's managers and its not that easy.
    Although it may seem like an easy way to jump start on the other side of this business, most of them discouraged me to start as a white label but to invest more in a turnkey solution.
    That requires much more investment and you will need to hire some personnel, but the advantage in this case is that you will have the full control of the casino, marketing, database, payments, retention, support and so forth.

    It also depends on which markets you wish to focus on and the one your traffic comes from.
    Do more research and make sure to to find the solution that suits of need now and also the future of the casino you wish to start
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    White Labels are usually renowned with turning into clip joints. A WL is nothing more than a poor-man's casino.
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    Hi mate, Huge riscs in starting white label casino. Depending on the investment you are willing to make ofcourse. Plan on huge affliate and marketing costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PokerGambler View Post
    Hi there,

    I''m currently considering starting a white label casino. Does any of you guys have experience with running one and wouldn't mind sharing some pitfalls, issues or any other input?

    I do have a steady stream of converting traffic, so I'm not worried too much about that part. My goal is to get out of the affiliate position and build a sellable asset. Is there a demand for white label casinos?

    Cheers
    If your goal is to build a sellable asset, then you should probably continue with your affiliate business. I would say that it is easier to sell your affiliate business than a white label casino.

  8. #7
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    As a person who actually worked in a white label, there are few things to point out.

    Initial costs. In order to start a white label, the minimum amount you need is around $50000. Even though it might be possible to make a deal for lower than 50k, I wouldn't even consider a white label without at least $50k. Design and development of the casino front-end is way more complicated than deployment of the Wordpress theme.

    Operation costs. You'll pay the % from the total amount of bets played in the games offered at your casino, meaning that those freebies intended for new players will cost you money. Basically, that's also a reason why most of the white labels rarely offer more than 100% welcome bonus.

    Affiliate management software costs. Even though White Labels usually offer the simplistic affiliate management instruments - they are ****. Reports are ****. Making an affiliate account out of the players account is also ****. You'll have to write a welcome pitch to hundreds of players who have clicked Affiliate tab out of curiosity

    Admin fees. You'll have to apply admin fees on your affiliates. According to one of the white label guides, it should be around 30%. If you don't do it - you'll go bankrupt. At the beginning, you'll only be able to offer Revenue Share deals. This is a fair option for one-man-band affiliates and webmasters, but bigger affiliates who can deliver volumes are usually working on CPA.

    Marketing materials. Those reviews, banners and landing pages aint gonna fall from the sky.

    Extreme competition. White label companies are releasing dozens of new brands on the regular basis, meaning that the competition for your target audience will grow fast. You'll also have to compete with non-white label brands that cover your target GEO.

    Funnelling & Re-marketing. You'll have to take care of retention campaigns, otherwise the life time value of your players will be short. Short life time value leads to rev share affiliates putting you down in their priority list. You'll have to walk a long trail of trials and errors before you build up a loyal audience.

    High withdrawal rate. White Labels can reach around 60-70% of withdrawal rate.

    Summing up.

    It may take 6+ month until your revenue on investment will start to climb from the negative pit. Mind that fact that for successful operation you'll need a team and the office. Of course you can have an internet company with most of the stuff working from home, but in my opinion, office workers are more efficient. The truth is, White Labels rarely live through their first year.

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  10. #8
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    thanks for the interesting read, still i will be nitpicking, pls do not take it personally

    According to one of the white label guides, it should be around 30%. If you don't do it - you'll go bankrupt.
    maybe one case does not make a rule?

    I wouldn't even consider a white label without at least $50k
    I do not think the costs should be the decisive thing here. There are countries where devs take 5K+ /month; there are countries where they get 500. And the money paid to people generally are irrelevant to the work they are doing.

    I am saying this because I was digging deep and got really variable offers from low 5 figures to mid 6 figures and I realized all was just too non-flexible **** that I do not need. In the end cheaper solution was found.

    I do not think money paid (for anything) can be the guarantee of quality. The problem with whitelabels and such is that it is no more a blackbox for money. One has to go deeper and from the beginning has to know or at least hope where are his advantages over competition.
    Of course you can have an internet company with most of the stuff working from home, but in my opinion, office workers are more efficient.
    I will for example hopefully never set up an office only because people are maybe more productive there. I never had an office. All my people work from home from all over the world and I do not have time to set up and office somewhere and then hire someone else to be in charge of it. I do not need middle-management. That is a way how corporations work and I really think it is efficient only into some point and the point has to be finally challenged with the development of online communication.

    Of course people who are allowed to stay at home normally fade away etc. But that is the issue to be solved. One has to work with them further. To motivate them and push them into their own self-development and discipline further. In the end they are - at least some - able to work more efficiently. There is no fixed working time etc.

    I am doing this for years, just hiring another guy and I insist on this pretty much. One has to have advantages over the others and maybe this is one of mine for example. (But to be accurate: maybe the things go well inpite of all this and I would be doing better with the offices. I am just generally ranting against doing things in the way other are doing them, because then you are just a copycat that is not needed and does not deserve high ROI.)

    I really think that successful online people are doing the mistake that once they make more or much more money than b4, they set up a company and give up most of the profit. I know for example a guy who has one of the biggest ad-agencies in certain niche. He is still doing everything on his own even the CS. His competitors have lots of employees, but he is the best. I will not name the company, because he does not want to show actually that it is possible to do everything on his own and from his home.
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  12. #9
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    No offence taken

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    maybe one case does not make a rule?
    When it comes to the admin fee, it's not about ripping off affiliates. It's about not going bankrupt.

    Even in one of the official white label casino guides(Operation Manual) it is suggested to have some kind of Admin Fee. Alright, it might be lower than 30%, but take a look here:

    25%
    https://www.askgamblers.com/admin-fe...liate-programs

    20%
    https://www.askgamblers.com/admin-fe...liate-programs

    There are white labels on both of these links. For instant, Bitstarz is the most successful White Label casino I know. I've also read somewhere in one of the AM interviews that their company is based only with most of the stuff being outsourced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    I do not think the costs should be the decisive thing here.
    This is the amount of money you'll end up paying to the Mother Company for giving your brand a birth. The package price may vary depending on whether you'll develop a design and all the coding on your own or you'll prefer to order it from mother company. I was just trying to give some estimates on the initial budgets required for the start.

    Personally, if I would have the money to launch my own white label casino brand, I would better open a restaurant or a pub.

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    thanks for replies
    Personally, if I would have the money to launch my own white label casino brand, I would better open a restaurant or a pub.
    My pizzeria already went under!
    -----
    I still do not understand why is it necessary to have the admin fee. Indeed most of the programs have it (well hidden), but let's be honest: is not it just a marketing trick to attract competition between affiliates and then secretly rip them off?

    Years ago there were almost no admin fees and somewhere they still do not exist.

    For me as an affiliate this is offensive. Just make my rev share lower and that is it. But ok, I can live with that because I must. As I must live with another ugly things in this world.

    However if I ever make it to my own casino/book + affiliate program then I exactly do not want to make to others what pisses me off. Ofc I do not want to go bankrupt.

    But is really the only way nowadays to promise to everyone 50+% revshare and then screw everyone through "fees". Instead of giving the 25-50% from raw income - bonuses - chargebacks as it used to be?

    Even you here admit that you have to charge the fees to avoid bankruptcy. So it is in a way Freudian slip, where you admit that the fees are not in fact to cover the real fees, but to make the revenue for the house bigger. Like giving a discount to the price that was risen in the past and advertising it. Again: this is not an attack against you; just trying to write the things as they are (they will be ugly indeed).
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    Pretty sure the admins fees came in to offset the costs of 3rd party software providers - Net Ent / Evolution / Microgaming ect .... they all charge operators a % of either the volume or revenue from each game they provide (depending on the deal this can be substantial enough cost) 13% - 15% of Gross Revenue would be typical
    Last edited by Wanner; 12 March 2018 at 12:40 pm.

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    So in the past they provided it for free? There is really no way to add those fees directly into revshare?

    I just want to know whether there is some economical sense why doing it this way or whether it is just the marketing gimmick. In other words why affiliates without admin fees must go under.
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    Even you here admit that you have to charge the fees to avoid bankruptcy.
    I was talking only about White Labels. I represent Rival & RTG casino brands. Our business model is different. We calculate the Rev Share from Deposit minus withdrawals. However, we do have a sending fee of $55 that covers wire expenses. We don't hide it. But again. This thread is not about my program, it's about White Labels.


    Pretty sure the admins fees came in to offset the costs of 3rd party software providers - Net Ent / Evolution / Microgaming ect ....
    Exactly. It's calculated from the volumes of bets played. Add here the fee applied by a mother company.

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    Hey,

    I have play 2-3 days ago on a Whitelabel my revenue away....some games are far away from the orginal. Mobile Versions on Desktop ?
    The Playn Go slots - looks suspicious, many other games dont wanna load.

    I see no reason why a players should play on a WL brand...and on the other side i see no reason why a affiliate should promote a WL.
    Some WL Brands sending 20 Promo Emails/Month out...that's just too much.

    Good luck if u try to open a WL...

    btw,Luke - good post. Thanks for the input...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progger View Post
    I have play 2-3 days ago on a Whitelabel my revenue away....
    That's an excellent point raised.
    On the affiliate (WL) side of the fence (believing this is a very important massage to everyone, especially newbies)... A lot of these places require you to open a player account. Your commission is paid into this account each month.

    IMHO that's just wrong on soooo many levels.

    Reiterating... a WL is generally a poor man's casino.

    And, not having an stand-alone aff program, would reduce operational costs etc. Granted casinos world wide - land based or online; in fact any business, will always try to reduce their expenditure. However, in the case of any casino online, opting to not have an aff program to save cash, indicates to me, they are not well funded. Hence, there's a risk of them going #ss up, which ultimately equates to... both players and affiliates get stiffed!

    Just my 2 cents worth
    Last edited by AussieDave; 12 March 2018 at 9:07 pm.
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    I'm glad you enjoyed the read. I also hope that some of the white-label AM's won't stick a dagger in my back during the next conference. =)

    I have play 2-3 days ago on a Whitelabel my revenue away....some games are far away from the orginal. Mobile Versions on Desktop ?
    The Playn Go slots - looks suspicious, many other games dont wanna load.
    These days there are a lot of companies that offer get-your-own-white-label services, however, I doubt that big players like SoftSwiss, Everymatrix and GiG will use fake games and there are 2 big reasons for that - Lawsuits & Reputation. Coming from that. A reputable white-label company will never integrate fake games into their backend.

    Fake games are easy to check. All you need is to check whether the games from the casino you are 100% sure about and the casino you have concerns of correspond with the same server.

    Imagine a white label backend as an ecosystem. Games and payment processing are in one box and even if you manage to butt-plug fake games with to your front end, it will take you another box of duct tape to make player funds processed through the white label processing available for spending at fake games.

    However, there are lots of shady companies who offer fake games. For instance, next time you have insomnia, instead of sheeps, try to count all the copies of the "Book of Ra" slot game. There are also lots of third party processing companies so you can assemble your own casino with liquor and fake games. But in my opinion, this will look more like a patchwork monster rather than a white label.

    Forecasting the question "who buys that?" - this business model might work as a niche casino for the CIS countries.

    Reiterating... a WL is generally a poor man's casino.
    Yes and no. I would consider it as a franchise, and there is quite a number of successful WL brands.

    I see no reason why a players should play on a WL brand...
    Most of the White Label companies were born at the beginning of bitcoin era. They've had a unique selling point based on that. They were also paying out players winnings within hours from request.

    and on the other side i see no reason why a affiliate should promote a WL.
    Again, most of the White Label companies were born at the beginning of bitcoin era. They've had a unique selling point based on that.Similarly to the chicken and the egg, right now it's hard to tell who appeared earlier, a bitcoin casino or bitcoin casino affiliates, but for a while those these two subjects were satisfying needs of each other. For a while they were successful, some of them have even accepted UK players until certain point. Another attractive feature for white labels was a possibility to accept US bitcoin traffic. With the days, the regulations got tighter bitcoin got crazier, Australia had shut their doors and white label casinos started to push more on the Nordics and the remaining GEO's which currently look more like Connor McGregor trying to fight Floyd Mayweather. Ambitions in the beginning but exhausting in the long run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Affalliance View Post
    most of the White Label companies were born at the beginning of bitcoin era.
    Seems your White Label definition is divergent to what I've seen from WL's.

    FYI, I've been around since 2000 (18 years as a casino affiliate)... Back then there were plenty of White Label's on offer; BTC and other cryptos weren't around then - AFAIK BTC etc, had even been invented way back then!

    Probably the most well known at the time, was Gambling Federation (circa 2001). They eventually got busted for some dodgy sh#t I can't recall now.
    Rival conducted a similar White Label program (circa 2006) - most Rival WL's, if not all went #ss up, and were subsequently taken over by Bonne Chance et al, a subsidiary of Black Chip Ltd, owners on Rival.

    Closer to this era, back in 2016, Refiliates (aka Tropica and other white label Rival's) burned both players and affiliates.

    In fact, Microgaming even had a WL program. Though, that had some hefty prerequisites which kept the low-budget operators, out. AFAIK Playtech also had White Label, and I so too did RTG - least it did when Michael Staw ran it (I know, cause he personally offered one to me).

    At the end of the day, I draw my opinions on what I've seen, and experienced 1'st hand, over these 18 years...
    For me, White Label's have spelt (more often than not) trouble, and closures. Which ultimately means non-payment for both players and affiliates.

    To me, the majority of White Labels are akin to something run by a Ma n Pa outfit, from their basement.

    IMHO a true bona fide online casino, is just like a land based counterpart. No withdrawal quotas. 32Red is a prime example. EG - win 100K (non progressive jackpot), your paid that withdrawal in one (1) payment, within a matter of a couple of days. Same goes for progressive jackpots etc.
    Last edited by AussieDave; 13 March 2018 at 7:52 am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieDave View Post
    Seems your White Label definition is divergent to what I've seen from WL's.
    Thanks for the facts from your experience, you've got a point. I've got in the industry in 2014, so I agree - my experience with White Labels is not obsolete.

    For me, White Label's have spelt (more often than not) trouble, and closures. Which ultimately means non-payment for both players and affiliates.
    I agree with you. As I said before, WL brands rarely live past their first year. However, it would be fair to say that you can count on fingers of one hand the brands that lived through their 18th birthday.

    Again, referring to my former words, if I had the monies to open a White Label - I wouldn't do it. =)

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    Truly nice posts Luke. I second pretty much everything. I've seen at least few superb affiliates loose lots of money on setting 'their own" white label.
    It may look appealing from big affiliate perspective (i will get higher % on my traffic + no one will shave me), but you will have much lower results.

    In two of those cases, they actually lost big chunks of their affiliate business since their focus went from something they do well, to something they have close to 0 understanding off. Basically as placing Messi as center defender
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