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  1. #1
    stevestan is offline Public Member
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    Angry Why you shouldn't join Affiliates United (AffUtd)

    If your thinking about Joining Affiliates United STOP! and read my little story below

    I have been with Affiliates United for only 3 months and in that short time I surprised at the poor level of service and at the amount of mess ups they have making on my account.

    When I first started I was impressed at the amount of money I was getting but after a month it all went down hill when 70% commission went missing and was put under the wrong calculation, so instead of earning $400 I earned $160.

    So I tried I sent an email to my Account Manager and got no response,

    So I gave them a call, guess what, they couldnt help me and said they would get my account manager to get in contact, but guess what, He never did.

    So I messaged the website on instant chat, and again they couldnt help and said they would get my account manager to contact me yet again. (which he didnt.)

    So I contacted joined this website over a week ago to vent my frustration and was initially helped out, and again was told my account manager would be in contact. which he did, but when I sent him a message back, again he didn't get back in contact with me.

    No I have tried everything and i mean everything to get the error on my account fixed.

    I still havent been paid and I still havent had my commission problem resolved.

    So if you want to work your ass off making money for a business that that will treat you like rubbish then go ahead and join affiliate united. But I'm afraid they are the worst I have ever had the miss-pleasure of using.

    Dont get me wrong there are some good guys at AffUtd, I just havent met any yet (Navdav is excluded)

  2. #2
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    Yes, I have watched your other thread with interest. Unfortunately they have let you down. It sounds like your affiliate manager is totally hopeless and that Nadav did not chase him up properly. It is certainly an annoying, stressful and unnecessary experience you have been through. As I briefly mentioned on that thread, not all affiliate managers there are bad (I have a good responsive one and I would not want to swap him), though my heart sinks whenever my AM does change.

    The irony is they are generally much improved and the recent move from bug-ridden mexos software to more trustworthy netrefer is excellent. I am sure Nadav can still sort your issue out personally himself if he is inclined to (nudge). Maybe he can do you the biggest favour and change your AM to one that actually bothers to reply to his emails. Strange they don't appear to care about all the bad publicity your experience has generated on this forum, as they usually do. I think you have been particularly unlucky with them (so far).

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  4. #3
    NHLinden is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Hi guys.

    As posted before, stevestan's email that was sent to me with his aff ID hit my spam box, hence the big delay.

    His AM is now in touch and doing his best to sort this out.

    Apologies for the delay, but it is now being looked at and the AM is in touch with stevestan

    I can assure you all, that our AMs are among the more responsive AMs in the industry

    Thanks,

  5. #4
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHLinden View Post
    Hi guys.

    As posted before, stevestan's email that was sent to me with his aff ID hit my spam box, hence the big delay.

    His AM is now in touch and doing his best to sort this out.

    Apologies for the delay, but it is now being looked at and the AM is in touch with stevestan

    I can assure you all, that our AMs are among the more responsive AMs in the industry

    Thanks,
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by NHLinden View Post
    Hi,

    Your email went to my spam box and has been sitting there for 2 days. Apologies.

    You will be contacted by your AM today.

    Thanks

    - written on 15 Jan by NHLinden
    Threads like these ones are the exact reason why we do not work with Aff Utd. There's a few others out there (in addition to Affiliates United) that every month it seems to be something else & someone else.

    I realize there was a transition recently in terms of tracking software. I've heard (and believe) arguments this is a positive change. However, it does not matter how many positive changes you make to the system, if you do not have responsive representatives, the system is worthless.

    The OP claims he has emailed, he has called, he has contacted the program in many different ways. It is clear to me that the program does not want his business based on their actions (or more accurately, their lack of action). A return phone call or email - even if it is saying "we're still working on this. We need more time but wanted to ensure we've not forgot about you" WOULD go a long way."

    But, that is proper customer service. Is this a concept your program is familiar with when it does not involve managing reputation in a forum? If it isn't, you have the wrong people working for you.

  6. #5
    NHLinden is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Shay,

    Thanks for stressing out how important proper service and responsiveness are, you're 100% right.
    But I recommend you check better before making accusations as you made above.

    stevestan was contacted by his AM (by mail) on the same day I found his email in my spam box (15th of Jan), as I promised on my post.
    I posted my update here only today, as this is another post, a newer one, that was opened by stevestan only yesterday.

    The team leader of the team managing his account added him on skype the following day (16th) and when stevestan responds they will help him sort this out

    Thanks,

  7. #6
    Jokerman99 is offline Private Member
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    When you see their conversions, you'll realise their is a much better reason for not promoting them!

  8. #7
    stevestan is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHLinden View Post
    Shay,

    Thanks for stressing out how important proper service and responsiveness are, you're 100% right.
    But I recommend you check better before making accusations as you made above.

    stevestan was contacted by his AM (by mail) on the same day I found his email in my spam box (15th of Jan), as I promised on my post.
    I posted my update here only today, as this is another post, a newer one, that was opened by stevestan only yesterday.

    The team leader of the team managing his account added him on skype the following day (16th) and when stevestan responds they will help him sort this out

    Thanks,
    Yes I was contacted by my AM, but when I sent an email back I didn't hear anything for days, hence the reason why I got so annoyed because I was completely in the dark for way to long.

    Now this has been going on for weeks, and I only started making and commenting on posts on here because I was fed up of not being able to get help or a response to my query.

    The thing is that this should never of got to a point where I needed to comment on a forum to get any help, now if AffUtd Jumped on it a week ago, then we wouldn't be speaking on this blog right now.

    I get no pleasure from creating posts like this, but if you intend to leave sorting your clients out at the last possible moment then expect people to make negative comments publically, come on this should be your bread and butter.

    Now I have spoken to my AM today and he is helping me out getting this sorted, which is great news, and as soon as the problem gets fixed then I would be happy to let everyone know that its all sorted, I'm not saying that AffUtd are rubbish, I'm just posting what experience I have been having with them.

    I would love to turn round and say AffUtd are awesome and not everything is bad about them, just wish it didn't have to come to this to get a response.

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  10. #8
    NHLinden is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerman99 View Post
    When you see their conversions, you'll realise their is a much better reason for not promoting them!
    Hi,

    We convert (signup to deposit) between 35%-40% on Casino, and 65%-80% on William Hill, our one wallet product.

    That's well within the industry standards.

    I understand your experience with us was different, and I'm sure there ways we can optimize your traffic together to get better results.

    Feel free to contact me personally, if you feel like discussing it.

    Thanks

  11. #9
    Jokerman99 is offline Private Member
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    Of course those numbers look great. But when you have one of the worst click to signup ratios in the business then your numbers suddenly become far worse. I have years worth of click data from WH and can promise you that AffUtd are at the bottom of the barrel on that front.

  12. #10
    NHLinden is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerman99 View Post
    Of course those numbers look great. But when you have one of the worst click to signup ratios in the business then your numbers suddenly become far worse. I have years worth of click data from WH and can promise you that AffUtd are at the bottom of the barrel on that front.
    There are a lot of things to do with low click to signup rates as well.

    As I said, if you're interested to give it another shot, contact us and we'll help.

    I can promise you we have a lot of affiliates who are very happy with our CTS and CTF rates (check out PPC affiliates on google UK or a few other affs who run media campaigns for us)

    Thanks,

  13. #11
    stevestan is offline Public Member
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    Well my AM got in contacted me and has forwarded my account problem to the finance team, that was yesterday morning, it will be interesting to see how quickly the problem is sorted or get a response from them. I will let you all know as soon as its sorted. Hopefully I won't have to wait another 2 weeks.

  14. #12
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    TheCanadianGambler is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerman99 View Post
    When you see their conversions, you'll realise their is a much better reason for not promoting them!
    There are many more reasons than that.

    They bugged me for a long time trying to get on my site, met them in person at a conference where they threw some big numbers around for flat-fee and rev-share deals, assured me that past issues were all cleared up and they were a better program now, etc. etc.

    I finally agreed to sign up, mainly so they would just leave me alone, but didn't want to give them a ton of exposure right off the bat so just went with rev-share, ignoring the big flat-fee numbers. Well that didn't last long, soon they were pushing for more exposure, they had "a bunch of money left to spend at the end of the year", and wanted to give me a flat-fee on top of the rev-share.

    "Ok fine" I figured, let's give it a shot. After a month of increased exposure, the excuses started, the flat-fee deal wasn't authorized yet. Strange I thought, because my AM said the paperwork was in and I should be paid on the next payment run.

    I had also sent them a player or two in that time, and was paid a lower rev-share than we had agreed on.

    They did eventually back-pay on the rev-share, but even that was problematic. I had wire transfer set as my payment method because of the flat-fee deal, and since I didn't get that, I changed it to Moneybookers and told my AM to pay to that. I ended up with three small wire transfers, which my bank charged me $24 for each one.

    So lesson learned, I'll never again sign up with a program that has had so many past issues, just to get them to stop bothering me. Would have been so much easier to just ignore them.

    Actually this was a year ago and I haven't signed up at any programs since, they ruined me for others.
    Last edited by TheCanadianGambler; 21 January 2014 at 10:32 pm.

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  16. #13
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHLinden View Post
    We convert (signup to deposit) between 35%-40% on Casino, and 65%-80% on William Hill, our one wallet product.
    My guess is he actually was talking about clicks to sign-ups. Only an affiliate knows his clicks to sign-ups percentage with various firms. He will see the pattern for that across the firms he promotes & then he can work out which firms convert best for him.

    Often sign-ups are best with less exposed firms (maybe simply because punters don't already have an account there). If william hill is not performing as well for some affiliates (clicks to sign-ups) as other firms do, is it simply because they are closer to saturation in the UK market than other firms? Would there be other reasons for this too?

  17. #14
    stevestan is offline Public Member
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    My AM has been bang on the case, emailing me and chasing finance, im seeing problems are beginning to be addressed. But my account issue still isn't fixed and I still haven't been paid.

    I think the Finance department are either having major problems adjusting to the new system or they just like ignoring us. to be honest I think it not the latter and they have having problems moving to net referrer. New system mixed with a bit of bad luck could be the route of the problem. But Thank you Tomer for getting on it anyway.

  18. #15
    Jokerman99 is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    My guess is he actually was talking about clicks to sign-ups. Only an affiliate knows his clicks to sign-ups percentage with various firms. He will see the pattern for that across the firms he promotes & then he can work out which firms convert best for him.

    Often sign-ups are best with less exposed firms (maybe simply because punters don't already have an account there). If william hill is not performing as well for some affiliates (clicks to sign-ups) as other firms do, is it simply because they are closer to saturation in the UK market than other firms? Would there be other reasons for this too?
    Could of course be many reasons for why. Maybe the page isn't optimized properly for conversions. Maybe the download or signup buttons should be split tested in different colours or in different places. Maybe there should be different copy on page etc etc. The number of variables is massive.

    I've promoted WH in all gaming niches on 20+ sites with diverse geographic profiles. I've also compared numbers with other affiliates. Everyone has similar experiences. WH could give me a $600 CPA for poker and it would make me way less per click than 888 and Bet365.

  19. #16
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    universal4 is offline Forum Administrator
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    And yet some others might make WAY more per click on other sites and might not be able to ever get bet365 or 888 to convert.

    This is one of those anomolies that exist in this industry.

    That's why all affiliates should always test all offers, pages and sites with more than one program or property. That is why campaign tracking links are so important since it helps determine what links and creatives are working where.

    There is rarely ever a blanket statement of never promote casino X or always promote casino Z to fit all affiliates needs.

    Rick
    Universal4

  20. #17
    Jokerman99 is offline Private Member
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    I highly doubt that. The majority of super affiliates promote 888 and Bet365. The same cannot be said for WH. I do know where you're coming from though and I agree traffic from one site might be awful for Brand A but great for Brand B.

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    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    888 has a rotten name in the industry. I suspect the problem with WH conversions is in the landing pages.

  22. #19
    RacingJim is offline Public Member
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    I've only recently started promoting 888 and signups have been a trickle so far and lots of bonus riders due to the no deposit offers they do, not seeing many money players yet.

    William Hill, I see a much lower signup rate per click than others, so I don't think it's to do with saturation as that would more explain less clicks in the first place, which isn't the case. I'd say it's more to do with cookie length, landing page and signup process and maybe just maybe a sneaking suspicion that this program doesn't quite want to play ball with affiliates quite as much (i.e. give us as much of their money) as some of the other affiliate programs do.

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  24. #20
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingJim View Post
    William Hill, I see a much lower signup rate per click than others, so I don't think it's to do with saturation as that would more explain less clicks in the first place, which isn't the case. I'd say it's more to do with cookie length, landing page and signup process.
    Yes, your first point is very valid. I think it must be landing page and sign-up process. I currently have william hill with more exposure than I have ever given them and the sign-up rate is being outperformed by all the firms with less prominent positions. I asked on Jan 8 for a sports home page link that is a responsive link (that caters for mobile as well as desktop automatically). They don't have this and so far can't produce it. The landing pages they have produced that are responsive are dreadful and all very sport specific. The landing pages even imply the free bet is only for football (in fact it reads like it is for a specific match only) or (on the racing one) only for racing. The annoying thing is they think they know it all.

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