32Red Looks Anti-Affiliate & Predatory to Me, Despite the Big Rep

[Anti-Corruption]

I'm guessing some or a lot of folks are unwilling to say anything, especially if they are publicly known, so I will. The 32Red "Active Affiliate" clause is downright bad, as in, really quite bad for affiliates:

5.7. Active Affiliate
32RedAffiliates will only make payments to active affiliates; an active affiliate account is defined as an account which has generated a minimum of 1 new paying customer for the casino clients of 32RedAffiliates within a 3 month period. If an account does not meet these requirements, at the sole discretion of 32RedAffiliates management, future commission payments may be withheld.
We reserve the right to change the Commission schedule and method of calculation of Commission.

https://www.32redaffiliates.com/Affi...gin/terms.aspx

That means, for example:

*you can bring in some new players generating significant income for years, but lose everything if you have a three-month or more dry spell;

*bring in a 'whale' generating xxx,xxx or x,xxx,xxx all for 32Red alone, and be completely cut out of the commissions due you.

Plus any other example you can describe. Since it's really easy for some to have a dry spell or not even be able to bring in that many players annually, it's sure easy to activate such an "active" clause, which actively takes away all your previous work.

It seems to me that, if you are even inclined to accept any kind of "active" affiliate term at all, that in truth an "active" affiliate means someone who is simply trying, as in, publishing to potential customers, and any other "definition" is nothing less than just inventing an excuse to avoid paying commission on income resulting from association with the affiliate to begin with. You know, income you would not have at all without the affiliate. Not good, to say the very least.

It would be best to see all such terms done away with, and hopefully an end to US prohibition will find many more quality affiliate-friendly program terms appearing relatively soon. From where I'm sitting, minimum player terms of any kind are unacceptable and I'll pass no matter how famous or prize-winning the site is.

[joeyl]

Good catch Anti Corruption.

I tink you're correct. Webmasters don't speak up against bad practise, in case they upset the paymaster.

[Engineer]

I thought they got rid of this nonsense a few years ago.... Hmm.

Edit: Sorry, I was wrong. I was thinking of their "other" predatory term, where a player had to deposit at least £50 to be considered a "real" player (and thus tagged to the affiliate).

[kwblue]

32Red has had this clause in for as long as I can remember. We, at AGD, will review them shortly so that we can begin communications with the 32Red folks.

As far as AGD's TAS is concerned, the clause has been in there since:


TAS Update - 2008-04-10 03:59:50

5.7. Active Affiliate 32RedAffiliates will only make payments to active affiliates; an active affiliate account is defined as an account which has generated a minimum of 1 new paying customer for the casino clients of 32RedAffiliates within a 3 month period. If an account does not meet these requirements, at the sole discretion of 32RedAffiliates management, future commission payments may be withheld. We reserve the right to change the Commission schedule and method of calculation of Commission.

(however, this WAS THE FIRST UPDATE FOR 32RED). Again - we will review their full terms set soon and get a dialog started for change.

[mgcasinos]

It's really very very hard to earn a cent at 32 red affiliate.

Why?

I want to share you a secret: "32red affiliate doesn't track flash casino".

You can test it by clicking the link with your affiliate code, landing to the 32red homepage, and then click the "Instant Play Now" button - - - - - - - - - No tracking.

[Mark@32Red]

Hi Everyone.

Wow, where do I start. The beginning of the thread makes sense to me!

I'm guessing some or a lot of folks are unwilling to say anything, especially if they are publicly known, so I will. The 32Red "Active Affiliate" clause is downright bad, as in, really quite bad for affiliates:

Hi Anti,

This clause has been present in our affiliate terms and conditions since the launch of our affiliate program. While working at 32Red for just over 2 years, I have never heard of this particular t&c being enforced - I am pretty confident that even before my time this was also the case.

We are due to launch a brand new affiliate site and platform (through Netrefer) in the imminent future, and while not going into individual sections of our t&c in detail at the moment, one of my tasks will be to thoroughly review our t&c when we relaunch.

We, at AGD, will review them shortly so that we can begin communications with the 32Red folks.

Thanks kwblue, your review would be extremely useful when updating our t&c as per the comment above. I head up the marketing department - I can be contacted at markq(at)32red.com (either by email or MSN). Sabrina looks after the affiliate side of things, she can be contacted at affiliates(at)32red.com, again by MSN or Email. Please get in touch with either of us if you need any clarification on anything.

I want to share you a secret: "32red affiliate doesn't track flash casino".

You can test it by clicking the link with your affiliate code, landing to the 32red homepage, and then click the "Instant Play Now" button - - - - - - - - - No tracking.

Hi mgcasino, without having details of your affiliate account, I am unable to determine if you have referred any flash players to us - but I can assure you that there is no 'secret' regarding the tracking on our site.

When a visitor first logs on to 32Red.com, the site will look for a BTag (affiliate code) in the URL. If this isn't present, it looks for a TDUID (those in the know will recogise this as Tradedoubler tracking). If neither of these are found, the referring URL (e.g. google, yahoo etc) is detected.

The data gathered above is used to create a 30 day cookie which is picked up by both versions of our software.

Download casino: The installer will detect the cookie in the installation process and pass this to us when you register your details. The referral information is also stored in the registry of the players PC, which remains present even if the customer uninstalls the software.

Flash Casino: The flash registration page will read the referral information from the cookie, and I believe it also adds information to the registry - although I will need to get this confirmed.

I think that covers everything. Please feel free to get in touch if I can be of any further assistance.

Thanks
Mark

[LiveCasinoPartners]

Firstly, it's great you came and responded to this thread in defense of your program.

... I have never heard of this particular t&c being enforced -

Then why have it in your T&C's? It doesn't make sense to leave it in and not exercise it. If you know you will never use it again I strongly consider deleting that one. If you are worried about black hat seo then add another specific term for that. The T&C'c act as a mission statement for your program. It's a competitive market and programs need not only to be affiliate friendly but proaffiliate.

[Mark@32Red]

Firstly, it's great you came and responded to this thread in defense of your program.


Then why have it in your T&C's? It doesn't make sense to leave it in and not exercise it. If you know you will never use it again I strongly consider deleting that one. If you are worried about black hat seo then add another specific term for that. The T&C'c act as a mission statement for your program. It's a competitive market and programs need not only to be affiliate friendly but proaffiliate.

Hi WagerX,

Thanks for the response.

As previously mentioned, we are currently revamping the whole affiliate part of our business, the site, the software and (of course) the terms and conditions. Rather than change the t&c 'on the fly' it makes sense for us to review them as a whole for our relaunch.

Mark

[theshortstack]

Are you able to give us an idea of when this relaunch is likely to take place Mark?

It's frustrating that having spent a fair bit of time looking for what I thought was a solid casino to promote, I didn't spot this in your Ts & Cs.

Anyway, thanks to the OP for pointing it out!

[Mark@32Red]

Hi theshortstack,

We have been given a date of 'early May' but we all know these things can take longer than planned. Add myself or Sabrina to MSN and I'll keep you posted.

Thanks
Mark

[Anti-Corruption]

Thanks for all of these posts, guys, including you coming in to respond about the T & C, Mark. Thanks for all this constructive level-headed dialog, and taking away every bit of dread I had at first about coming back to check out this thread, especially since I started out about as unsweetened as can be. With all my past experience in forums, this was a nice surprise, even doubly so when you consider our particular and beleaguered industry we have all become a part of for the present time.

This clause has been present in our affiliate terms and conditions since the launch of our affiliate program. While working at 32Red for just over 2 years, I have never heard of this particular t&c being enforced - I am pretty confident that even before my time this was also the case.

Mark, appreciating your post notwithstanding, sometime within the last 24 hours or so, that was one of the things I was a bit concerned about - that if anyone from the program came in to respond at all they might say something like that. But that still leaves the option dangling there to be used at any time. I have to agree with WagerX 100% and feel he is totally spot on and makes the point well. Moreover, as one who can spend hours arguing about things like text, context, pretext, and so forth, no matter how you look at it I really can't see any reason why one couldn't or wouldn't want to snip it out, whether "on the fly" or lounging over coffee - except unless one simply just doesn't really want to.

Are you able to give us an idea of when this relaunch is likely to take place Mark?

It's frustrating that having spent a fair bit of time looking for what I thought was a solid casino to promote, I didn't spot this in your Ts & Cs.

Anyway, thanks to the OP for pointing it out!

Hey - don't mention it, theshortstack - and good question. You've also said it well - you search for solid programs to join that you can feel ok about, maybe it looks like you've found a winner, perhaps even one with a big rep everyone knows about and solid customer appeal, but then all of sudden you feel like it's back to square one and it looks like you didn't find what you thought you had after all.

[joeyl]

Maybe webmasters should fine casinos, for not converting the traffic sent to them, into atleast 1 paying customer every 3 months.

What kind of nonsense is this term all about anyhow?

Either it's lifetime of the player or not.

[FurnessPoker]

I have had major isssues with these, originally they told me they would give my players free money without depositing, after promoting them they said, only if they deposited $50.00 they then told me cashout was at $50.00 when I reached this, they said it was a $100, when I reached this it all of a sudden changed to $100.00 - I also had a player sign up that wasnt credited to my banner, I emailed them regarding this and never got a reply

[Anti-Corruption]

Maybe webmasters should fine casinos, for not converting the traffic sent to them

lol

Either it's lifetime of the player or not.

Yeah, joeyl. Wouldn't it be great if even the most money-seeking person merely said to themselves, "well, I'm getting revenue from this player because of a referral from someone else, so I'm happy to do the right thing and still getting most of something I would not have had at all otherwise."

I have had major isssues with these, originally they told me they would give my players free money without depositing, after promoting them they said, only if they deposited $50.00 they then told me cashout was at $50.00 when I reached this, they said it was a $100, when I reached this it all of a sudden changed to $100.00 - I also had a player sign up that wasnt credited to my banner, I emailed them regarding this and never got a reply

You know, isn't it really all just a house of cards anyway? Even if someone purged every such term from every T & C, won't there more or less always be that grand daddy of all trump card terms which states that "so and so may modify the terms of this agreement at any time...yada, yada...your sole remedy is to terminate...blah, blah..." Then perhaps a day comes when they feel any fallout from some abrupt adverse change doesn't matter, and they can afford to do whatever they want to keep all the loot or something like that, etc. The initials GP come to mind...

Then there's the even larger issue of transparency and integrity to begin with, really the very foundation of this house of cards. Oh sure, you can try to put some safeguards and "external" audit measures in place, but there's nothing like the kind of easy certainty and transparency about your stats that a person would really want, is there? And all of this occurs within the context of one of the most powerful enticements and temptations to corruption and departure from principles of all, if not the most - the one all of us know - money. If the people involved care about priciples and integrity, then maybe you get what is right and have reason for some confidence. We all know the alternative and how prevalent it is...

[aksana]

I like 32Red casinos and I hope 32Red will change their T&Cs otherwise I will have to stop working with them.

[Mark@32Red]

I have had major isssues with these, originally they told me they would give my players free money without depositing, after promoting them they said, only if they deposited $50.00 they then told me cashout was at $50.00 when I reached this, they said it was a $100, when I reached this it all of a sudden changed to $100.00 - I also had a player sign up that wasnt credited to my banner, I emailed them regarding this and never got a reply

Hi Furness,

I am sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences with 32Red, would you be so kind as to send any correspondence that you have on this matter to me, markq@32red.com, and I will investigate for you?

Thanks
Mark

[32x]

* * * * The statements below are my opinions only, and are to the best of my recollection * * * *

I do realize that this thread is over 2 years old, but the title of this thread from 2009 is like a point toward the future, which brings us up-to-date that NOTHING has changed in 2011.

* * * * The statements above are my opinions only, and are to the best of my recollection * * * *

[greedygirl]

* * * * The statements below are my opinions only, and are to the best of my recollection * * * *

I do realize that this thread is over 2 years old, but the title of this thread from 2009 is like a point toward the future, which brings us up-to-date that NOTHING has changed in 2011.

* * * * The statements above are my opinions only, and are to the best of my recollection * * * *

How so, 32x? We know you have your own situation with 32 Red. Outside of that, can you point to whatever issues you're referring to in this post?

[BHL]

I'd like to know as well.. well no I don't really, can't make me hate em.
It looks to me like a safeguard term to get rid of the sites don't want to be on. Maybe you should have tried a little harder

[theshortstack]

I'd certainly like to know whether there has been any kind of update as I'm on the verge of taking down 32Red altogether ...

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