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  1. #1
    playforfoodz is offline New Member
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    Exclamation 888 Affiliates freeze account, forcefully cease all communication, over 50k locked

    Hi,

    Here is a short account of what has been happening to my account (playforfoodz) on 888 Affiliates for the past 7 months or so. I had a relic Revenue Share commission scheme that was fully functional and brought some revenue. Then on in mid March the account gets frozen for security review. The email says that the answer should be given in 180 days.

    At this point there was nothing I could do - I called the affiliate support line several times, they told me nothing new, no details. So I waited for some time, then after 1.5 months passed, I contacted my affiliate manager to learn about what happened. He contacted the Fraud department and got nothing new. At the same time he told me that there was nothing else he could help me with, and that he was told to cease all communication with me.

    I proceeded to call the affiliate support line a couple more times, and again, received no clarification whatsoever with regards to what their charges are, suspicions or the like. I sent a couple of emails to all known email addresses, including my affiliate manager, affiliate support line, fraud department, Cassava operations etc with a request to provide an explanation of what was going on, and offered my assistance with whatever they needed (documents, information, screenshots etc). No reply followed.

    Their investigation period (180 days) expired on September 18. No email followed from them. My account remained fully operational - rake was being tracked, commission was calculated as per usual, all my trackers were active, even new players could sign up. However no payments had occurred to my benefit since March 18, and the total debt amounted to a little over 50.000$ in frozen affiliate payments.

    I made 3 calls to the affiliate support line, and received promises of swift replies. None followed. Then they stopped answering the phone. And on October 23, one month after the investigation period had ended, I receive a notice of account closure. No reasons for closure given, no reasons for the delay.

    Now all emails of Cassava, Fraud department and affiliate managers have turned deaf - I receive no replies anywhere, complete stonewall.

    Anyone knows any contacts I can reach with respect to this case? It smells awfully like stealing - in fact I offered them any assistance, since I don't have much to hide, any screenshots or live demos. They never requested any of it. And still thought they were at liberty to cease over 50.000$ in payments.

    I know at least two more cases where this happened around the same time. And these two guys are thinking about a lawsuit against Cassava and their affiliate department.

    But is there any other way to solve this? Court won't render a decision that quickly.

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  3. #2
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    I would go the route of court. They get served with a lawsuit and they will become "reasonable" in my opinion.

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  5. #3
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Hello playforfoodz,

    I am very sorry to hear that.

    "Now all emails of Cassava, Fraud department and affiliate managers have turned deaf - I receive no replies anywhere, complete stonewall."

    It's a fact and video proven, that these crooks have used rigged poker software.
    It's also a fact, that the casino roulette software was faulty.
    They are locking down winning player accounts.

    Many names e.g. on correspondence emails are "ghosts", and they refuse to answer or handle public issues since years.

    And finally: They lie!

    It's also proven, that since some months 888 is an accomplice of serious crime by yoosocial criminal network (hacking (criminal damage), data tampering and computer sabotage). The proofs for that crime are published here on GPWA, and the complicity here: https://www.google.de/search?client=...est&gws_rd=ssl

    So after reading all these facts and your sad story, you can call 888 "criminals", and there is nothing wrong with it.

    I'd rather die than put them on my website!

    What you can do?

    888 (Cassava) is quoted on the stock, so it's not so easy to hide the strawmen behind the company.

    On the other side, if you will go the route of court, you have to recognize, that perhaps the jurisdiction is not in your country, and that you need an accredited, very expensive special lawyer.

    I don't know the current terms of the affiliate program in full, but it is possible, that they have free-ticket terms.

    "I know at least two more cases where this happened around the same time. And these two guys are thinking about a lawsuit against Cassava and their affiliate department."

    You should check by a (not so expensive) lawyer or court officer, if a consolidated class action lawsuit is possible in Israel (Tel Aviv), where the office is located.

    Leopold

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    I would go the route of court. They get served with a lawsuit and they will become "reasonable" in my opinion.
    Excellent advice. They are a publicly traded company and will not want negative publicity damaging their name. 180 day investigation. What a joke !!

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  8. #5
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    I have looked for you into the 888 affiliate terms because under civil law primary only the written words are valid and not the spoken words:

    5.11 The Company retains the right to review all commissions for possible Fraud, whether such Fraud is on the part of the Money Player, on the part of a Sub-Affiliate, or on your part. In any period of time during which the Company reviews commissions for possible Fraud, such review period not to exceed 180 days, the Company shall have the right to withhold any Commission accrued in your favor, such Commissions not to be paid until such time as the review has been concluded. Any incidence of Fraud on your part constitutes a breach of this Agreement. In case of such breach, the Company retains the right to terminate this Agreement immediately and you shall not be entitled to receive any Commissions which have accrued to your benefit at such time in relation to same whether such Commissions were generated through Fraud or otherwise. [...] For the purpose of this Agreement and by way of example only the term "Fraud" shall include, but shall not be limited to: (i) the encouragement by you or a third party of bonus abuse on the part of the Money Players; (ii) a chargeback executed by a Money Player in relation to their initial deposit; (iii) collusion on the part of the Money Player with any other player on the Group Websites; (iv) the opening of an account in breach of the terms of this Agreement; (v) the offering or providing by you or any third party of any unauthorized incentives (financial or otherwise), including without limitation "rake back", to potential or existing Money Players; (vi) creating or using a single Link intended to be used by a single Lead; and (vii) any other act by you or by a Money Player which is reasonably understood to have been committed in bad faith against the Company regardless of whether or not such action has resulted in any type of harm or damage to the Company. In the event of a suspected "rake back" activity on your part (based for example, on the detection of numerous Affiliate serials with only one or very few accounts on each), the Company shall have the right to immediately block your account and forfeit any past and future Commissions which have accrued to your benefit.

    Source: affiliates.888.com/terms-and-conditions/

    "the term "Fraud" shall include, but shall not be limited to"
    "not be limited to"!

    "have the right to withhold any Commission"
    "any"!

    Sorry, of course you can try to sue, but your chances are not very good. If you read, what "fraud" is and only one single "fraud" -that can be anything, that is not written in the terms!- is enough to withhold "any Commission".

    It will be very hard to find a judge, that will not ask the question: "Why didn't you read the terms before accepting them, because it's not the problem of 888 if you don't read but accept the terms?" and says "The application is dismissed as to the remainder."

    Free-ticket terms, usual in the industry and the reason why it is near impossible to sue an affiliate program with success.

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 8 November 2014 at 6:38 am.

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  10. #6
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    "It will be very hard to find a judge, that will not ask the question: "Why didn't you read the terms before accepting them, because it's not the problem of 888 if you don't read but accept the terms?" and says "The application is dismissed as to the remainder."

    Free-ticket terms, usual in the industry and the reason why it is near impossible to sue an affiliate program with success."

    Sadly, Leopold is right.
    I am really surprised that company listed on the stock exchange do such things that could destroy their long-term reputation.
    888 was the first casino affiliate program, I have joined. They constantly refuse to improve their "untrusted" affiliate software and reporting system.
    Simply, the majority of affiliates do not trust them, anymore.
    Sadly saying, it's time to decrease slowly their presence on my sites. There are many other "much better" affiliate programs, on
    our beautifull Earth.
    Thanks Leopold for your comments. It's great to learn something from you, as usually.

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  12. #7
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    I have spoken to a lawyer in the past about the standard term that states they can change the affiliate contract terms whenever they like and been told that would be chucked out on the spot. You cant have a contract and then state in it you can change the terms to suit you at any time.

    The courts are there to right a wrong irrespective of contract terms. A court will regularly deem certain contract terms as irrelevant or unjust. The key thing is not the detail of the terms but whether a legal injustice has been done.

    PS: Speak to a real contract lawyer, not people here making up the law as they go along!

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  14. #8
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    I think if you start the legal process (along with the other affiliates affected) then they will have to reply. They are a Plc and have to address legal matters. Get a lawyer to send a letter to their legal department demanding payment. It may be that it is sorted out by that alone. But be prepared to keep going. If it did get to court, which is a long way down the line of communication, then they would have to provide valid reasons and solid evidence of those reasons as to why they withheld the money. I reckon you will be paid out at some point during the legal communications, but be prepared to go all the way. If you got to court then I would happily contribute a four figure sum towards your costs because you'd be doing the whole industry a favour as there is far too much pisstaking going on and giving someone a serious slap is long overdue.

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  16. #9
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Oh, I was wrong. It's obviously not Israel, because the terms are very clear:

    ---

    "This Affiliate Agreement (this "Agreement") contains the complete terms and conditions between ourselves, Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar) [...] and you, regarding your application to participate as an affiliate [...] By marking the "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions" box (or similar wording) you accept the terms and conditions of this Agreement, which is a legally binding agreement between you and us. [...] 5.11 [...]"

    888 Holdings plc (Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar)) Limited
    Suite 601/701, Europort Road
    Gibraltar
    Telephone: +350 20040617
    Fax: +350 20048280
    Info@888holdingsplc.com
    Also trading as Brigend Ltd & Fordart Ltd (dba Dragonfish)

    Licences:
    Betting RGL No. 039
    Gaming RGL No. 022

    ---

    It's no secret, that at least one online casino of our wonderful industry used forged logs or other "proofs" of fraudulent player activities (e.g. term 5.11).

    It's strong Cassava company policy, that Cassava refuses any 3rd party mediation. So there is no way around a lawyer.

    But ... from the very first day, you have visited a lawyer you shall maintain silence to the public as long as you received your money or a final (!!!) judgment has been handed down by a court. I myself was lay judge for some time, and if a case is open, silence (to the public) is golden.

    Leopold

  17. #10
    playforfoodz is offline New Member
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    Hi everyone

    Thank you for your replies!

    First of all, I have to say that I've already had a chat with a major international law firm. They laid everything out for me. I'm not going to comment on the results, but there are ways in which I could pressure 888.

    At the same time going to court has its own downsides, such as: should I lose, I will have to pay for legal expenses of 888. On the other hand, I can showcase clean Moneybookers (Skrill) accounts that only show that all money was transferred directly to my bank account and nobody else. But there is much more to this.

    That is why I was wondering if somebody had any contacts within 888 to try and resolve this matter without going public, or to court.

  18. #11
    Syndicate is offline Public Member
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    Nothing surprises me with 888 , several years ago i had to chase them for a gambling debt of 36K (ie -money they owed me) and you can believe me,i had to get very nasty before they decided to settle,they tried to drag it out but i wasn´t taking any more crap,blitzkrieg! - i started with the licensing authority,people whom i knew,just mentioning names forced them into submission,they asked me to withdraw what they termed ``slanderous comments´´ or face legal proceedings (blabla)!!

    Name and shame!!

  19. #12
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    bad bad 888 very bad .. so fraud holding ...

  20. #13
    playforfoodz is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syndicate View Post
    Nothing surprises me with 888 , several years ago i had to chase them for a gambling debt of 36K (ie -money they owed me) and you can believe me,i had to get very nasty before they decided to settle,they tried to drag it out but i wasn´t taking any more crap,blitzkrieg! - i started with the licensing authority,people whom i knew,just mentioning names forced them into submission,they asked me to withdraw what they termed ``slanderous comments´´ or face legal proceedings (blabla)!!

    Name and shame!!
    Hi

    Is there any way we could use your contacts to make them go clear about this? The case might be different, since it's an affiliate debt, but we're open to dialogue, and want to talk it out rather than go to court.

  21. #14
    Syndicate is offline Public Member
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    The way to get these people is through loss of face,that´s what i did before,feel free to PM me with your skype and we can go through the options!

  22. #15
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by playforfoodz View Post
    Hi

    Is there any way we could use your contacts to make them go clear about this? The case might be different, since it's an affiliate debt, but we're open to dialogue, and want to talk it out rather than go to court.
    The first legal letter to 888 from your law firm will get them talking. It will immediately take it to a much higher level than just the affiliate dept.

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    RacingJim is offline Public Member
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    Sound like a right bunch of crooks.

  25. #17
    playforfoodz is offline New Member
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    Hi,

    Syndicate, could you possibly PM me? I don't have 10 posts to do that on my own

  26. #18
    playforfoodz is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    The first legal letter to 888 from your law firm will get them talking. It will immediately take it to a much higher level than just the affiliate dept.
    Working on this - going through all terms and conditions of legal engagement isn't a quick process at all

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  28. #19
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    The irony of this is I have just given 888 brands the highest profile on my main site they have ever had, prompted by the migration of Joy of Bingo brands to uffiliates and a conversation with a very attentive & helpful affiliate manager. I had avoided promoting them seriously for the last 10 years precisely because of their reputation for dishonesty. These type of threads crop up at regular intervals about this firm, there is always something. You would hope that at some point a public listed company would clean up their act but it appears the culture hasn't changed at all.

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