Advertising Rates on Websites

[bettinganalyst]

Hi Folks,

Hope some of you wise heads can help us with this one?

What do you think the standard price for fixed price advertising would be, we have a company that is interested in a dedicated advertising campaign from our site, we are sure we could put some decent business their way as we are well connected in this field , just for info,we have deliberately avoided leisure bookmakers and we don´t want affiliate programs, we always wanted a advertiser that was connected with what we do (value betting),any ideas regarding an exclusive and non exclusive deal?

Thanks in advance

[louie.wilson]

Depends on several things.

- Your traffic (volume and qualification)
- Your target eCPM

The bigger the traffic, the bigger the potential for them. But if not qualified, it won't be worth much.
You may want to compute your target eCPM. How much do you want to generate per 1000 pages views? I'm not 100% sure about display, but for emailing for example, usual eCPM is between $1.5 and $3. Might be bit lower for pure display.

Based on that, you can get back to them and push the price that would help you reach your target eCPM / global revenue.
And see if their budget and target matches. Expect them to try to lower it, especially if the volume is not proportional to the qualification, but after, it's all a matter how how you will convert for them

[Oracle]

why don't you want an affiliate program?

[bettinganalyst]

In theory the affiliate program is not the problem, it´s just that our concept is built on taking money from the Bookmakers (affiliates work on profit share), we are great believers in value betting and not the leisure play gaming companies (i.e. clients cannot win), this in itself limits us to bookmakers that offer dynamic odds (prices moving according to weight of money) such has pinnacle/SBO and a handful more, the mechanism these bookies use builds in a small percentage profit (about 1.5%) in that odds movements behave similar to the stock exchange (supply-demand),such bookmakers allow for broker bets (single wallet solution covering several bookmakers), bets placed can run upto 500K, it´s a different world to the standards that most of you would know and accept!

Our aim is to promote a betting broker, we have many contacts in the world of betting at syndicate and investment level, that´s our target market!

Thanks

[Oracle]

In theory the affiliate program is not the problem, it´s just that our concept is built on taking money from the Bookmakers (affiliates work on profit share), we are great believers in value betting and not the leisure play gaming companies (i.e. clients cannot win), this in itself limits us to bookmakers that offer dynamic odds (prices moving according to weight of money) such has pinnacle/SBO and a handful more, the mechanism these bookies use builds in a small percentage profit (about 1.5%) in that odds movements behave similar to the stock exchange (supply-demand),such bookmakers allow for broker bets (single wallet solution covering several bookmakers), bets placed can run upto 500K, it´s a different world to the standards that most of you would know and accept!

Our aim is to promote a betting broker, we have many contacts in the world of betting at syndicate and investment level, that´s our target market!

Thanks

You can give 1000 people profitable betting tips. At least 850 will still lose money at the end of the year due to their own poor bets or bad bankroll management.


"we have many contacts in the world of betting at syndicate and investment level"
your site is not geared towards these sort of people at all. those people don't need a basic betting tutorial or a link to pinnacle or the league table described in 10 sentences when they can get all that information from soccerway.com in 30 seconds.

Also how are you going to make money from those people... they already have accounts at all bookmakers and exchanges, they got to that level by learning how to price up and analyse their own events of choice and have seen 1000+ scam tipsters in their time so are very unlikely to trust anybody when they know the huge amount of work that is necessary to be in their category so without a long term, proofed, profitable log of bets you won't get those peoples attention.

[wettFORM.AT]

how much you can earn with advertising depends as already said on the amount of views your page can generate. Further it depends on your target group. The CPM price varies a lot between different countries. A rate from 0,50 € to 3or4 is possible. But you can imagine that you need a lot of views to generate some income and value for you.

[bettinganalyst]

You can give 1000 people profitable betting tips. At least 850 will still lose money at the end of the year due to their own poor bets or bad bankroll management.


"we have many contacts in the world of betting at syndicate and investment level"
your site is not geared towards these sort of people at all. those people don't need a basic betting tutorial or a link to pinnacle or the league table described in 10 sentences when they can get all that information from soccerway.com in 30 seconds.

Also how are you going to make money from those people... they already have accounts at all bookmakers and exchanges, they got to that level by learning how to price up and analyse their own events of choice and have seen 1000+ scam tipsters in their time so are very unlikely to trust anybody when they know the huge amount of work that is necessary to be in their category so without a long term, proofed, profitable log of bets you won't get those peoples attention.

Thanks for your informative comment!

With regards to the tutorials they are designed for taking people from being a social gambler to the next level (make them think),we see no need to go into quads/algorithms has their appeal would be to a small minority and like you rightly point out, the ultimate professional can work it out for themselves! ,i think it´s fair to suggest,we are very aware that syndicates/betting funds do their own thing, we never suggested they would be reading any of our reviews,we just said that is our business !

For info - The sites focus (eventually) is to find a few good tipsters/info providers that we can use for our own betting fund and maybe open this fund/investment club to a wider audience (That´s why we have been auditing for the past 19 months) ,in the meantime, if we can cover some of the costs by raising revenue for advertising on the site, i guess we should take it! ps : We already receive plenty of information from third parties for our own betting purposes!

I think you are probably underestimating our knowledge of the betting/gaming business,we can certainly take the right partner (Broker-Fund) to an higher level,i see no point in being website 9999 with a Bet365 affiliate program, i see no point in pushing companies like Winners at the general public, it´s like cat food----------all the same!

With your suggestion that 850/1000 will leave a drop irrelevant of information, i totally agree, it´s probably 980/1000, you can lead a horse to water but you can´t make them drink it!

If your business is affiliates good for you it´s just not for us, we could turn our thoughts into the leisure play but why would we?

[baldidiot]

Have you looked at promoting the exchanges?

[bettinganalyst]

Hi Baldidiot,

Thanks for your suggestion,their are a couple we could speak with!.

If Betfair had not introduced that premium charge we would certainly have gone that way, by 2011 they had moved away from encouraging winners , in fact, that´s when we ourselves stopped betting with them, that would leave Matchbook and Betdaq (part of Ladbrokes now) as the others would be very small, we are starting to bet with the aforementioned (bartlett) has they have some liquidity and commission free at the moment,however, their markets are formed by scraping asian lines, we can do that ourselves and so can others!

We have enquiries from brokers and that´s probably the way we will go,mainly because we have contacts well beyond the website, we can cover many locations/languages and so on, however, brokerage is complicated in other ways, like which Bookies do they offer, what about rebates for larger customers, currencies, licensing etc,their are about 20 bookmakers in this world that cater for these type of brokers, its just that only a handful are useful, others have reputation issues!

In our other world we do a lot of licensing for bookmakers (gaming companies),company structuring and data supply,most target the non regulated markets through the retail space (local agents-provision of platform),they are not companies we could support in any other way, i just believe every aspect , should at least pay for itself, what´s the DNA of business--How am i going to make money!!

For us, it´s all about understanding the business to be supported and choosing carefully!

Cheers

[Oracle]

Thanks for your informative comment!

With regards to the tutorials they are designed for taking people from being a social gambler to the next level (make them think),we see no need to go into quads/algorithms has their appeal would be to a small minority and like you rightly point out, the ultimate professional can work it out for themselves! ,i think it´s fair to suggest,we are very aware that syndicates/betting funds do their own thing, we never suggested they would be reading any of our reviews,we just said that is our business !

For info - The sites focus (eventually) is to find a few good tipsters/info providers that we can use for our own betting fund and maybe open this fund/investment club to a wider audience (That´s why we have been auditing for the past 19 months) ,in the meantime, if we can cover some of the costs by raising revenue for advertising on the site, i guess we should take it! ps : We already receive plenty of information from third parties for our own betting purposes!

I think you are probably underestimating our knowledge of the betting/gaming business,we can certainly take the right partner (Broker-Fund) to an higher level,i see no point in being website 9999 with a Bet365 affiliate program, i see no point in pushing companies like Winners at the general public, it´s like cat food----------all the same!

With your suggestion that 850/1000 will leave a drop irrelevant of information, i totally agree, it´s probably 980/1000, you can lead a horse to water but you can´t make them drink it!

If your business is affiliates good for you it´s just not for us, we could turn our thoughts into the leisure play but why would we?

We are thinking along the same lines.

I use my website and forum betting logs as proof of my ability which gives me the credibility necessary so when I see good posters I bring them in to a very small circle of top quality bettors and we share tips which has been incredibly successful over the last 14 months.

I am looking at a few ways to trial potential new members over a few months, probably 6 months/100 bets with detailed reasoning for each bet and if they look to know what they are doing they come into the group and share among the tips while still remaining on a trial period as they are a very good group which is never going to grow to more than 15-20 people and there are very strict requirements to be a member.

I hope to have this group very well defined over the next 3 years.

[Oracle]

i'm offering this perspective with good intentions as I see you are on the right track and look to be putting in a good bit of work to your site so take it as it is meant...

Regarding this preview which seems to be typical: http://www.betting-analyst.com/ViewAllBlog.aspx?id=475

Your target market of professional gamblers and sport betting hedge funds are not going to pass a blind bit of attention to that as it contains no useful information whatsoever to them.

There is no log of your bets to show you are a profitable bettor whose opinion should be valued.

If you seen my betting logs and approached me to join your 'team' I wouldn't be interested as I need to be impressed to share my long hours of hard work and years of trial and error and that would be the attitude of almost all (semi)professional gamblers who are the sort you are hoping to attract.

If your business is affiliates good for you it´s just not for us, we could turn our thoughts into the leisure play but why would we?

To make more money.

[Oracle]

Also, I was wondering how these sport betting funds operate that you mentioned in a previous post.

At some point successful bettors struggle to place bets for the amount they want with their own money so how can these 'funds' operate with what I assume are reasonably large amounts of capital?

[bettinganalyst]

Hi Oracle, That´s much easier to answer than the question about advertising rates, you are obviously more used to the majority of Bookmakers that don´t accept risk

Betting syndicates/funds place the majority of their bets on the Asian market, they don´t need to block winners, the reason is simple, it´s a numbers game and lines move according to the weight of money, take pinnaclesports, on game day you can bet 25k in one hit on an English premier league game, wait 30 seconds and you can bet again, the line will have dropped a couple of pips, their system works similar to the stock exchange(odds move according to weight of money), your opponent is not the bookmaker, it´s the opposing gambler, their systems are built to gain an hedge!!

They use betting brokers, accounts are numbered and not named, to guarantee you are not been limited in any way the account numbers are changed at random, also, by using a broker you can hit 5-10 Bookmakers simultaneously, thus in a big game you can bet 250K without much aggro!

Brokers are paid a commission from the Bookmaker, between 0.25% to 1% of the stake (dependent on bet type), their are many betting syndicates/funds, especially in Asia!

Another way of betting on horses is to bet into the pari mutual and receive a rebate, take HK, we get 10% back from any losing bet of over 10,000 HK dollar, the systems advantage dips to about 8% but take into account you are betting against many Joe Bloggs, people with little idea!

[bettinganalyst]

Well here´s the thing, we already operate a betting fund and we receive plenty of information, i think you have some misconception when you suggest we are targeting professional gamblers, it´s not the case, we are targeting people who want to improve and eventually we will be looking for some good tipsters, the info will be used by our betting fund.

Take the UK horse racing bets, we never bet one, we can´t without making a lot of effort, when betfair went to the premium charge of 60% we where out of business on that score, we bet horses in other jurisdictions where we get rebates but we would never advertise them as its a totalisator, we would be shooting ourselves in the foot!

If people can bet our UK horse tips at the prices we suggest they will make a good income, we already have a big following and it´s increasing all the time so we are not such the idiots that people are suggesting!

I guess the real question with the site is, how can we have it pay for itself?, use advertising to gain some revenue?

The tips and info are their to amuse people, nothing more, eventually we might take people into the betting fund, once it´s been properly audited!

[LottoRevenues.com]

Everything comes down to traffic, how much can you generate.
Now after that said your focus is about monetization - there are many appraches to monetize,
each have different views but make sure to track your ideas - 50% of advertisers online don't track,
they just do guess work.

[Oracle]

This is hilarious. I post on a sports betting forum and received this message a while ago from the opening poster of this thread and now I see how he is trying to appeal to professional bettors.

This also won't work as people will trust friends or family before they are going to trust some stranger on the internet with their money to open a new sports betting account.


This is also even funnier when I read the second last post in this thread where you had to move to different jurisdictions as you were paying Betfairs premium charge.





Hi ,

Are you a big punter? As betting-analyst.com

. we offer (anonymous) betfair accounts for pro punters / gamblers . Also the comission is only 3 % plus you can use other top bookies at the same time with high limits. if you want to join and start , we can send you details.info@betting-analyst.com


Regards,
http://www.betting-analyst.com

[Oracle]

For info - The sites focus (eventually) is to find a few good tipsters/info providers that we can use for our own betting fund and maybe open this fund/investment club to a wider audience (That´s why we have been auditing for the past 19 months) ,in the meantime, if we can cover some of the costs by raising revenue for advertising on the site, i guess we should take it! ps : We already receive plenty of information from third parties for our own betting purposes!

Your website is less than a year old.

I have had a few scams tried out on me but this is one of the worst so far.

Your target market is almost entirely intelligent people with a few trust fund babies in the mix. Try something different.

[bettinganalyst]

It is true that our target market is intelligent people and if you think you can't trust and if you are not willing to test it , you don't use our services. It is that simple.

[bettinganalyst]

We are less than a year old and we don't wait anybody to trust us quickly . We know it is not possible. If you have a question , you ask and we are always here to answer.