Affiliate managers who have their own portals...

[casinobonusguy]

This is not necessarily true - there's at least one company that comes to mind that had a rogue AM who closed player accounts and reopened them under his own tracker.

I got goosebumps when I ready this ,can only speculate who that is but would explain a few things to me.

[Casinorep]

I could be wrong but I think many are discouraged from doing so (at least on their job) to avoid conflict of interest. And those who do, may be reluctant to share that.

[DanHorvat]

I don't think there's conflict of interest. All AMs have to justify their decisions to someone, and frankly, 50% rev share instead of 30% rev share doesn't make your website a success. So an AM giving himself the best deal would risk a lot of income (salary) for minimal gain.

What I'm saying is that these two things aren't connected. AMs don't make your business a success. If some of them want to give it a go and try to run a successful project in their spare time (which they have a shortage of compared to, say, me) - let them do it. It's a whole different ballgame.

[-Shay-]

I don't think there's conflict of interest. All AMs have to justify their decisions to someone, and frankly, 50% rev share instead of 30% rev share doesn't make your website a success. So an AM giving himself the best deal would risk a lot of income (salary) for minimal gain.

What I'm saying is that these two things aren't connected. AMs don't make your business a success. If some of them want to give it a go and try to run a successful project in their spare time (which they have a shortage of compared to, say, me) - let them do it. It's a whole different ballgame.

If you're working for someone in the business of fixing cars & on the side you also take work fixing cars on the side at a lesser rate whilst still using your employer's tools - this is a conflict of interest.

If you are in the business of writing loans and you call on the same customers on the side to provide loans in the future, there is a conflict of interest.

Some people might say the above is not "apples to apples"...

If one is working with a "trusted affiliate manager" and discussing ad placement, conversion tactics and the like - and the AM asks "what exact keywords are you targeting with this ad?" or "what keyword/page is your best converting?" --- not that we ever give specifics, but I'm sure others do --- do those questions not "play" differently if you are speaking with a "partner" rather than someone who is a "partner" but also a competitor?

To me, an affiliate manager with their own portal is a conflict of interest all day long. The emergence or existence of an AM owned portal should be disclosed to company and affiliates in advance (in my opinion). If I found out after the fact that an AM we work closely with had a competing portal, I'd re-evaluate our relationship with them. That being said, if it was disclosed in advance, it would not necessarily be a "deal breaker". We do work with a few white labels that are owned by affiliates - but this is all well known in advance.

[cass]

If you're working for someone in the business of fixing cars & on the side you also take work fixing cars on the side at a lesser rate whilst still using your employer's tools - this is a conflict of interest.

If you are in the business of writing loans and you call on the same customers on the side to provide loans in the future, there is a conflict of interest.

Some people might say the above is not "apples to apples"...

If one is working with a "trusted affiliate manager" and discussing ad placement, conversion tactics and the like - and the AM asks "what exact keywords are you targeting with this ad?" or "what keyword/page is your best converting?" --- not that we ever give specifics, but I'm sure others do --- do those questions not "play" differently if you are speaking with a "partner" rather than someone who is a "partner" but also a competitor?

To me, an affiliate manager with their own portal is a conflict of interest all day long. The emergence or existence of an AM owned portal should be disclosed to company and affiliates in advance (in my opinion). If I found out after the fact that an AM we work closely with had a competing portal, I'd re-evaluate our relationship with them. That being said, if it was disclosed in advance, it would not necessarily be a "deal breaker". We do work with a few white labels that are owned by affiliates - but this is all well known in advance.

Well said!

Reputable portal owners face severe competition, why?

1. Have to contend with Google (i.e. algo updates)
2. Affiliate managers that run their own sites or are in partnership with portal owners.
3. Online casinos that run their own portals.

I know of a guy that used to buy player lists from an affiliate manager.

[Roulette Zeitung]

Hello Shay and Otto,

your last posts were really anything but without rhyme or reason. Writing with good dash of common sense you could not learn. It's a gift.

But let us be honest: Especially after what happened the last weeks in this industry...

We exchange thoughts about fluctuation in this industry and interest conflicts, and this is very important and these things come to light by interesting and smart people like Otto, but latest 24 hours after a real nice affiliate manger or representative left the stage, most people of this wonderful community -even webmaster- don't give a damn about her/his fate.

Following the principle of "Next, please!"

And on all other days ...?

It's business as usual.

According to my estimates 15-20% of all GPWA members are more than money orientated people. They are decent women and man, who don't take refuge in airy indifference. They are the true core, the guarantor for an effective external presentation.

We have forgotten, that we all are supernova remnant. It is not our destiny to behave like lemmings.

Oh, I have to apologize to the lemmings. They are without any doubts more intelligent than some of us.

The inner pictures of affiliate mangers or representatives in large part are a Fata Morgana. Positive pictures, painted of Kristal, Maria or Renee are the exception rather than the rule.

Leopold

[cass]

Hi Leopold,

As always thank you for the kind words.

Think all of us can do with a little transparency in this industry. Most of us know how our affiliate managers look like since we deal with them on a daily/weekly basis. Unfortunately this is where the buck stops. Nine out of the ten times we don't know who the owners of the online casinos are we're promoting.

One of the main reasons why we interview the various casino staff (affiliate managers) is to have some modicum of transparency. I'm yet to interview a casino owner since they refuse outright to be interviewed and prefer to remain ''hidden'' behind the scenes. If you're an honest Joe you've got nothing to hide. If you look at the ''About Us'' section of any reputable company you'll see that the company lists its management and board of directors. I haven't come across an online casino that is this transparent. More often than not they list bogus names and pictures.

Don't get me wrong I'm not out to slate affiliate managers per se-only the ones that act unscrupulously. There are some top-notch blokes and gals, as you pointed out Renee (Rewards) and Maria (Long Harbour) are great just to name but a few.

The GPWA is the biggest platform for casino affiliates, I call upon the GPWA to encourage online casinos to become more transparent. Hope you're reading this Michael.

This is What I Propose:

1. GPWA/AGD must compel casino owners to list their names as well as their management. This must be one of the criteria when casinos apply for an advertising space here. Also, give a short write up about each individual and his or her role in the organization in the ''About Us'' section of their sites. If portal owners can do it so can you.

2. If an online casino runs its own portal we want to know about it. To be honest I will not work with an operator that has its own portal.

I firmly believe if there's some level of transparency the shaving of affiliates will drop significantly. If you've got nothing to hide then become transparent. If anybody has something else to add to the list please feel free to do so.

[DanHorvat]

I think this is a case of "us against them", them being above us and therefore feared. If all this is correct, then a former AM such as myself would have a huge edge in this game. Not true. You still got to work hard.

And you can still draw out information from fellow affiliates if you're an affiliate. You can be unfair all day long and you can make all sorts of evil deals.

Shay, since you're already using analogies, I got one for you. You're saying a car mechanic has an unfair advantage while driving in traffic. And that he'll hit the green light while you'll hit red because you're not a mechanic.

AMs are, by default, honest people. They work for a living. The affiliates are the shady ones.

[Roulette Zeitung]

Hi Leopold,

As always thank you for the kind words.

Think all of us can do with a little transparency in this industry. Most of us know how our affiliate managers look like since we deal with them on a daily/weekly basis. Unfortunately this is where the buck stops. Nine out of the ten times we don't know who the owners of the online casinos are we're promoting.

One of the main reasons why we interview the various casino staff (affiliate managers) is to have some modicum of transparency. I'm yet to interview a casino owner since they refuse outright to be interviewed and prefer to remain ''hidden'' behind the scenes. If you're an honest Joe you've got nothing to hide. If you look at the ''About Us'' section of any reputable company you'll see that the company lists its management and board of directors. I haven't come across an online casino that is this transparent. More often than not they list bogus names and pictures.

Don't get me wrong I'm not out to slate affiliate managers per se-only the ones that act unscrupulously. There are some top-notch blokes and gals, as you pointed out Renee (Rewards) and Maria (Long Harbour) are great just to name but a few.

The GPWA is the biggest platform for casino affiliates, I call upon the GPWA to encourage online casinos to become more transparent. Hope you're reading this Michael.

This is What I Propose:

1. GPWA/AGD must compel casino owners to list their names as well as their management. This must be one of the criteria when casinos apply for an advertising space here. Also, give a short write up about each individual and his or her role in the organization in the ''About Us'' section of their sites. If portal owners can do it so can you.

2. If an online casino runs its own portal we want to know about it. To be honest I will not work with an operator that has its own portal.

I firmly believe if there's some level of transparency the shaving of affiliates will drop significantly. If you've got nothing to hide then become transparent. If anybody has something else to add to the list please feel free to do so.

Well Otto ...,

you and I, we are old campaigners in this industry and we know which way the wind is blowing and how things have changed in this industry for the worse. We are no asshamster or turncoats. We are staunch defender of truth, say what we think and listen to what others think.

If I would betray secrets from the last years, then I can expose a lot of unethical and criminal activities of affiliate managers and it's very easy to debunk the myth, that free speech is also valid for all (!) affiliate manager or representative, even for the good ones.

A current statement shows, why:

"As an affiliate manager, it is my duty to promote the brand I work for [...]. Even if I might have had some suspicions [...] I patiently waited until I got my final payment"

"I have been legally requested to retract some of the statements [...] I have agreed to publish this further statement as it does not affect my initial allegations."

Source: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/another-o...tml#post772739

After 17 years working in this industry my family and I have read so much wishy-washy and nonsense, exposed so many things, that I today only can warn all these young ladies who are arriving as an underpaid affiliate manger this business.

Dear new Ladies ... your odds to get abused by any party -sooner or later- are 28:1 to your disadvantage. Be prepared! You are working in a largely heartless and hypocritically environment and not in a petting zoo. A big part of what you are reading in major affiliate forums is a Fata Morgana or is based on money greed if you investigate it in greater detail.

But the other, the "true" part of what you are reading, is a delicious dessert made from milk and sugar, with beans, fruits and nuts mixed in.
The proof is in the pudding.

Leopold

[-Shay-]

I think this is a case of "us against them", them being above us and therefore feared. If all this is correct, then a former AM such as myself would have a huge edge in this game. Not true. You still got to work hard.

And you can still draw out information from fellow affiliates if you're an affiliate. You can be unfair all day long and you can make all sorts of evil deals.

Shay, since you're already using analogies, I got one for you. You're saying a car mechanic has an unfair advantage while driving in traffic. And that he'll hit the green light while you'll hit red because you're not a mechanic.

AMs are, by default, honest people. They work for a living. The affiliates are the shady ones.

No, I'm saying that in most businesses and industries - having a side business related to your "9 to 5" job is frowned upon, as it is a conflict of interest.

[DanHorvat]

It's not that simple. But I won't elaborate further.

[-Shay-]

It's not that simple. But I won't elaborate further.

Please do elaborate, Dan. Personally, I respect your opinion and insight enough to be interested in what you have to say. I'm also open to being educated and having my point of view challenged as it relates to this particular topic.

[GCG]

Starpartner has eg Casinouk.com

I think all in all affiliates do not like this way of monetising efforts by affiliate programs.

In other words : I am not really interested in programs that do this, better send your traffic elsewhere.

[DanHorvat]

Please do elaborate, Dan.

As I've been surrounded by people in real conflict of interest at one point, I've learned you've got to be much more precise if you want to pin something on them. Sometimes it's not a conflict of interest although it seems so at first, and vice versa. Devil is in detail, as usual.

If an AM has an aff site he is prone to being in conflict of interest, but that will happen only when two interests are actually conflicting. And even when that happens, the man has a choice what to do. You can't presume guilt based on exposure to a possible bad choice.

Back to the real world - if I find out an AM has an aff site, I'll likely be cautious about him. I won't presume he's guilty but I'll know for a fact he can make some very bad choices if he chooses to. In the end it's down to who you are inside. He could take advantage of his position or he could be a better AM because he understands the aff side of things.

[-Shay-]

Dan, I should have more carefully chosen my words - by "conflict of interest", I meant "potential conflict of interest".

As I've said in prior posts, we work with some brands/managers that we know have affiliate sites of their own. My preference is that we know this in advance of forming the relationship and I think if it is the case, the company/individual should disclose the fact in advance.

[PROFRBcom]

we work with some brands/managers that we know have affiliate sites of their own. My preference is that we know this in advance of forming the relationship and I think if it is the case, the company/individual should disclose the fact in advance.

Agreed, this should absolutely be disclosed!

[cass]

Hi Leopold,

This is What I Propose:

1. GPWA/AGD must compel casino owners to list their names as well as their management. This must be one of the criteria when casinos apply for an advertising space here. Also, give a short write up about each individual and his or her role in the organization in the ''About Us'' section of their sites. If portal owners can do it so can you.

2. If an online casino runs its own portal we want to know about it. To be honest I will not work with an operator that has its own portal.

I firmly believe if there's some level of transparency the shaving of affiliates will drop significantly. If you've got nothing to hide then become transparent. If anybody has something else to add to the list please feel free to do so.

In light of the above I'd like to bring this thread to your attention as well.

A private member (Casino South Africa) came clean about an operator that was ripping off its affiliates. Sadly, nothing came of it. https://www.gpwa.org/forum/i-despera...ay-199731.html

I guess it's the same old song and dance all over again. Just goes to show you how prone affiliates really are, more often than not we're at the ''mercy'' of the programs we're promoting.

[cass]

Also a very interesting thread and ties in nicely with the above: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/stolen-da...tml#post547817

[marawa]

60 to 70% from all the affiliate managers ( 50+ aff programs ) we do business with have their own portals!

[denuz01]

I have affiliate websites and got asked to become AM. What happens is when you then become AM you have to have a friend or relative take over control of your website as you sign a due diligence contract that you won't go further with your affiliate website until you quit the AM job again.... Why am I the only one knowing this, no other affiliates got asked to become AM?