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  1. #21
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    Well this is more relevant now with so many operators moving to myAffiliates software, when their selling points contain the ability to de-list players from affiliate accounts....
    Allfreechips online casino guide offers online casino reviews from our members. Also our exclusive No Deposit casino bonuses are always up to date. See the latest slot machine reviews at Hotslot and exclusive no deposit casino bonuses as well with a good dose of daily online gambling news to learn about pokies

  2. #22
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    My Affiliates - Have to agree that detagging players is absolute madness, but I know they use it in some programs, like taking away losing players and putting in winning ones.

    Income Access - the words software ever invented - they just do not track right. Which is even worse, seeing hundreds of clicks and words conversion ever.

    Netrefer - skip them too.

    If all is set properly with My Affiliate and Affiliate Manager do not do bad things, all is fine and it is the best program working with.

    I know people who used the "******"one (up-mentioned), they made a switch to My Affiliates and just saw in coupld of days 20-25 % raise of all good numbers we love to see and check each day : click, regs and FTD's.
    Seven times fall, eight times stand.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFoxLotto View Post
    And one more thing: I currently cannot answer any PMs. It seems my account is limited to 4 PMs in 2880 minutes - no idea why

    Found an interesting article which answers some of the questions:
    https://www.igbaffiliate.com/article...e-label-casino
    If I had to guess why, I'd say you are limited to your outbound PMs is because your program is not sponsored. Since GPWA depends on sponsorships, it would be unsustainable for them to give access to GPWA members to non-sponsored affiliate programs. Try asking Michael to increase the limit.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFoxLotto View Post
    ....

    Found an interesting article which answers some of the questions:
    https://www.igbaffiliate.com/article...e-label-casino

    That was an excellent article. I actually got some insights from it. I've seen Nick at LAC a couple of years ago. He really knows SEO. I didn't know he operated a brand. He mentioned the key is to have an inexpensive way of converting. One thing that stood out was his statement that Social media never worked for him or anyone else he knew professionally. I had the same experience. I tried every aspect of social media promotion. I had a few Facebook pages shut down for my efforts.

  5. #25
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    Already did that, waiting for answer
    Quote Originally Posted by WagerX View Post
    If I had to guess why, I'd say you are limited to your outbound PMs is because your program is not sponsored. Since GPWA depends on sponsorships, it would be unsustainable for them to give access to GPWA members to non-sponsored affiliate programs. Try asking Michael to increase the limit.

  6. #26
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    I think I spoke with him at some point a while ago too.
    I agree that if you make such a move, you need to use the two advantages you have over the established brands:
    1. low overheads, meaning you start own as a one-man operation or only use staff that you already have to run your affiliate business
    2. rely on traffic from your own sites, and your ability to drive traffic to the platform using your SEO skills.


    Quote Originally Posted by WagerX View Post
    That was an excellent article. I actually got some insights from it. I've seen Nick at LAC a couple of years ago. He really knows SEO. I didn't know he operated a brand. He mentioned the key is to have an inexpensive way of converting. One thing that stood out was his statement that Social media never worked for him or anyone else he knew professionally. I had the same experience. I tried every aspect of social media promotion. I had a few Facebook pages shut down for my efforts.

  7. #27
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    I am sure that no matter what software they use for the affiliate administration, detagging is always possible. And I wager it is a common practice with a huge percentage of programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    Well this is more relevant now with so many operators moving to myAffiliates software, when their selling points contain the ability to de-list players from affiliate accounts....

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFoxLotto View Post
    Now that it has been 17 months after I changed sides from being an affiliate in the lottery market and launched my own product,
    So I thought I should post a quick summary of my experiences so far, and also talk about the performance of my own platform now, vs what was reported back to me by programs such as Lottoelite (Wintrillions) and TheLotter while I was their affiliate.

    1. FTDs generated:
    Over a period of 17 months, my affiliate websites (having had pretty consistent traffic numbers over the last 6 years) have provided close to 3 times more first time depositor for my platform, compared to what my reports from both abovementioned affiliate programs used to show.

    2. Revenues generated:
    Now that I have accumulated a significant customer base, I can say that the per-customer revenues are higher by a factor of 1.4, compared to the numbers from my former affiliate reports. After 17 months, I am now better off in terms of income than I was after sending appr. 2500 FTDs to Wintrillions over a period of 8 years.

    3. Player lifetime:
    It is still too early to really compare those numbers after only 17 months, but what I can see, player lifetime is definitely not worse.

    4. General:
    Having my own product was a total game changer for me. Motivation is on a different level, of course. Knowing that you cannot be cheated out of your earnings makes all the difference.

    5. Doing SEO for my own platform vs. SEO for my affiliate sites:
    It is much more efficient to do SEO for your own platform. First off, people tend to spend more time on a site that has an actual product vs. an affiliate site (unless you really, really have great content). Second advantage is that conversion rates from organic search traffic going to a sales platform are a lot better than conversion rates for traffic coming from affiliate sites.
    Of course, some of the focus shifts to brand building, but SEO is still the main factor for me in driving traffic, asides from the fact that I now have affiliates of my own .

    Downsides of affiliating

    You may remember that I posted about the Wintrillions affiliate program. After much protest from me, they actually admitting that they stole customers from me, but then they even went one step further and closed my account (which still generated revenue) after I refused to promote them any longer. I suggest everone be extremely careful with them.

    About TheLotter - my experience with them was not as bad, although I was never really happy with the results I saw from them. Conversion rates were low, and I was never able to generate enough income from them. I have to say that I only promoted them for app. 2 years though.

    Summary

    All in all, I can say that any affiliate generating a consistent flow of new clients for the programs he is promoting, should consider establishing his own product and becoming an operator. I am not denying that there is a risk to it, and for some the costs to set up a platform of their own may be (or may seem to be) prohibitive. But you should not dismiss it out of hand, especially since more and more programs have turned predatory lately.
    very nice post mate i can see why you made the career move!

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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by WagerX View Post
    Here are some of the challenges I found: (1) The customer service emails were not fun. Mostly cashier and bonus issues. (2) Banking was a hassle and a part time job in itself. (3) Increased work load ultimately distracted me from continuing with affiliate network support. (4) Managing affiliates was a mixed bag.
    100% agree on all three points. But then, answering customer emails not being fun is kind of ... to be expected, right?

  11. #30
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    This is a super intersting thread. Thank you for bringing the white-label option to our mind RedFoxLotto!

    I thought about it in the past, but discarded it as being too complex / taking too much time for little additional revenue. But maybe I was completely wrong. At least in Lotto it is working.

    What makes me wonder is this: If it was so easy to setup a white-label and run it more profitable than just being an affiliate, why do the big boys (Catena?) not run their own casinos? Or... if they cannot do it successfully, why should one-person affiliates be able to do it?
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  12. #31
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    Good question about " Catena".

    Why do not they go on the other site?

    Actually I do not like what they do and would appreciate any other thoughts about it?

    @RedFoxLotto - much appreciated about the thread you have created.

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  13. #32
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    Great work on the launch. My friend Michael Martinez referenced you in a newsletter as a kudos to you!

  14. #33
    ddm
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    thank you SO MUCH for sharing all this valuable insight.
    THIS is what the forums are for

    best of luck with your biz!

  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1973 View Post
    What makes me wonder is this: If it was so easy to setup a white-label and run it more profitable than just being an affiliate, why do the big boys (Catena?) not run their own casinos? Or... if they cannot do it successfully, why should one-person affiliates be able to do it?
    No idea why they don't. I would assume that for a big casino affiliate generating high numbers of FTDs such a move must make sense.

    But then, it seems that the secondary lottery market is very different from casino. From my experience as an affiliate, player lifetime is quite high in lottery, for obvious reason. My experience from own platform is that there is a pretty consistent %% of FTDs who only buy once and then disappear, but there is also a nice percentage of players who keep buying tickets on a regular basis ever since they signed up.

    About casino: I just received a proposal from Softgamings with numbers for setting up a casino whitelabel. The setup expenses and royalties are not that different from what I pay. They are different models (higher setup fee, lower royalties and vice versa). The main difference is that they charge €3000 per month for maintenance of the casino engine and IT support. Do the math and figure out how many FTDs you'd need to overcome that.

    And then, there are many whitelabel providers out there. There must be "cheaper" ones, certainly the product quality will be lower. You'd have to find the right balance between what you can afford and the quality of the product. Also, I think that a lot of the terms are negotiable, especially when you can generate volume.

    Actually, it would be extremely interesting to hear what casino affiliates have to say about the whitelabel option from their point of view. My reasons are, of course, totally egoistic in nature . I could see myself cross-selling casino products or at least things like scratchcards or Keno, which are loosely lottery-related. Not so sure about typical casino games like slots or table games, cross-selling those might, in my mind, actually hurt my main business.

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  17. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoopersPick View Post
    Great work on the launch. My friend Michael Martinez referenced you in a newsletter as a kudos to you!
    Wow, that's quite an honor. Can you PM me a copy?

  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedFoxLotto View Post
    Actually, it would be extremely interesting to hear what casino affiliates have to say about the whitelabel option from their point of view. My reasons are, of course, totally egoistic in nature . I could see myself cross-selling casino products or at least things like scratchcards or Keno, which are loosely lottery-related. Not so sure about typical casino games like slots or table games, cross-selling those might, in my mind, actually hurt my main business.
    I see one of the members here already has their own casino white label through Progress Play for their lottery sites (https://www.euro-millions.com/, https://www.lottery.co.uk/, https://www.national-lottery.com, https://www.lotto.net/, https://www.irishlottery.com/ and a few more), so I guess the market must be out there. These sites are huge in terms of traffic so as you mentioned, you'd probably want a large amount of traffic to make it worthwhile. Glad to hear you're doing well though - the more affiliates that do this the better, maybe larger brands will start treating their affiliates better

  19. #37
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    "The main difference is that they charge €3000 per month for maintenance of the casino engine and IT support. Do the math and figure out how many FTDs you'd need to overcome that."

    Interesting. I've been talking to softgaming and they never mentioned ongoing costs. That's steep.
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  20. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BettingBoss View Post
    "The main difference is that they charge €3000 per month for maintenance of the casino engine and IT support. Do the math and figure out how many FTDs you'd need to overcome that."

    Interesting. I've been talking to SoftGamings and they never mentioned ongoing costs. That's steep.
    Me too, I talked to them about 4 months ago. I wanted to add softgaming's sportsbook to my platform, Their monthly minimum was about 4k just on the sports. The setup fee was high $X,XXX. What turned me off was the monthly minimum. This fixed monthly cost would be better spent on advertising or content.

    Someone mentioned Catena Media above, wondering why they didn't have their own casinos. They own so many converting sites, I have asked myself why they didn't before myself. I've had an affiliate program before and found that affiliates do make the lions share without having to worry about player conversion, retention, product offerings, etc.

    I think that the division between affiliate and operator will be less pronounced as the threshold of entering the market is lowered.

  21. #39
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    I guess that those maintenance fees are VERY negotiable. At least in a way where you only pay xxxx after you show a net profit which is at least 10 times the maintenance fee. Actually, I have done some calculations based on their info, and it does not look half bad.

    BTW in that article from Nick garner, he forgot a few items on the expenses side, like costs of payment processing , maintaining an offshore LTD.

  22. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1973 View Post
    What makes me wonder is this: If it was so easy to setup a white-label and run it more profitable than just being an affiliate, why do the big boys (Catena?) not run their own casinos? Or... if they cannot do it successfully, why should one-person affiliates be able to do it?
    Because they are that big and have 'strong' partnerships with brands, that means they are not getting shaved (or if one day it will be a big screw up that everyone will know), so it's more profitable and it's their setup (marketing) since the start. IMO.
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