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  1. #1
    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    Default BestPay Partners - Pre pay disagreement (closed)

    BESTPAYPARTNERS - PLAY2WIN, GRAND21 - stop playing & promoting ! it;s a really good advice! read bellow and see how they treat affiliates !


    so when i dealt with this room i asked them like this :
    They paid a small amount on that time to get a place on my site - IT TAKES TIME AND I CHARGE FOR MY TIME. I took this program at that time because i was in need of US casinos. but the funny thing is that they pulled off after 1 or 2 month .. anyway ... i used several times mailers on this affiliate program and i got nothing ... not even clicks. I work for long time here in this industry and if you think you will ask for whatever worked i did , u will not get money back - you are wrong.

    1. Stop promote this brands its not working
    2. Clicks regs don't count properly
    3. Complete waste of time.
    xxxhttp://www.slots4play.com/stern.jpg
    I've sent hundreds of thousands of emails this year and i sent lots of players to casinos but never seen this rubbish CTR stats in my life. I have rooms which i just started to promote on my website and they don't have yet what you had and got DEPOSITORS from the first week and many affiliate programs know this.

    I admit it's not working with everybody - it's impossible - but when u come and ask for something that i worked for it's not good. i worked for you ... so if you say this is a scam think twice. i have not taken ur money and run away!

    What i did not many do and i spent my life on this site, i work on a daily basis and what i built its not easy to do. but when a crazy man comes likes this its just pissing me off.
    Look people on my skype : yeah ... look on him - He says: you know who I am ...


    John Stern if this is professional i think you got with the wrong person. You really DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW HARD AFFILIATES WORK! REALLY! I WILL ERASE YOUR ROOM FROM MY SITE UNTIL TOMORROW MORNING - THIS IS A PROMISE !

    Oh Something else - he says he will go into the forums and light me as a scammer - THIS IS NICE ISN'T ? Don't you think ? Well mister John Stern - you are welcomed to make a comment here -
    I'm not ASDA and there is no moneyback guarantee .. but what i guarantee to you is a good fight ! i will make sure many of my customers will see this.

    PS: Affiliates - if these guys do like this i will STRONGLY SUGGEST - PULL OVER -

    hope this post is not so aggressive... sry i was so mad on that time lol

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  3. #2
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    You stated you never got any clicks.

    Were you able to get results in the stats with any test clicks in advance of starting the campaign?

    Is email the only way you promoted them?

    Rick
    Universal4

  4. #3
    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    i cannot access the program anymore, anyway the clicks was on a lower rate, the worst possible, and i had somthing like 7 players registered on that time... the bottom line is that compared to other casino in the same area which is Rival - RTG network i had over 300 players registered in 4 months ... compare 300 new regitered players versus 7 and you end up on nothing ...

    after 3 months i stopped focusing on them and now working on removing .. but they got me angry on that conversation. I hate people saying "you know who am I" .. and he threatened me like i would care about ... really .. lol , he got me more angry than he thought.

  5. #4
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Default

    20:16 bestpaypartners, Switzerland
    Switzerland?

    Country code for Switzerland is 41

    E-mail: support@bestpaypartners.com
    MSN: john.stern8@gmail.com
    Skype: john.stern4
    Mobile: +972 54 4491 308
    Source: bestpaypartners.com/deutsch/kontakt
    Switzerland?

    Headquarters
    Tel Aviv, Tel-Aviv 33333
    Israel

    Phone: +41 22 508 7041
    Website: www.bestpaypartners.com
    Email: john@bestpaypartners.net
    Source: www.igamingaffiliateprograms.com/affiliate-program/bestpay-partners/

    +41 22 508 7041 is a Swiss phone number.

    An affiliate company from Israel should not hide behind a Swiss phone number and not be so stupid to use a phone number, criminals have used in the past.

    Profit Club Investments Financial Authorities Warnings & Registrations:

    Warning ATVP Slovenia

    P U B L I C W A R N I N G

    against company Profit Club Investments

    Slovene Securities Market Agency is warning investors about activities of the company Profit Club S.A., Panama, which is operating through its internet site URL: http://profitclubgroup.com/.

    Company Profit Club S.A., Panama (hereinafter Profit Club Investments) has not obtained
    the Agency´s authorization according to Market in Financial Instruments Act (official Gazette of the Republic of Slovenia 67/07, 100/07, 69/08, 40/09 and 88/10) or any other securities law to carry out services in the financial instruments field in Slovenia and by the date of this warning the Agency has not received any documentation proving that the authorization is sought in order to acquire that authorization. Company Profit Club Investments is not authorized under the MiFID directive to provide direct investment services and deals related to financial instruments on the territory of the Republic of Slovenia.

    Profit Club Investments Offices:
    Head Office:
    Av. de Frontenex 6
    CH-1207 Geneva
    Switzerland
    Phone: +41 22 508 7033
    Fax: +41 22 508 7041
    Source: http://www.boiler-rooms.org/profit-club-investments/

    Another example?
    Look here: http://www.boiler-rooms.org/rooney-g...-partners-llc/
    Switzerland?

    A good company don't use offshore maildrop adresses or offshore phone numbers that are marked as fraud. This is not very professional and not inspiring confidence.

    The street address is well known: http://yellow.local.ch/de/q/6,%20ave...age=2&rid=S1gi

    Leopold

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  7. #5
    BestPay Partners is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    1. I got paid for services (i don't do free work anymore in this industry!)

    => You got paid 400$ as an agreement of pre-payment, which means, we pay you, because we trust in your idea as webmaster that you will be able to manage to bring in this case at least 1 or 2 Real signups that will convert to Depositing players, which never happened as we all know now (after 5 months).

    2. From my history with other partners I know that i have to had players that will come in.
    => According to history with other partners, you are already known as rude fraud in the industry: Gambling Portal Webmasters Association

    3. I'm 100% stats not working
    => Just because your traffic is not working, does not mean that our stats are not working

    4. Man when you use several mailing lists and you don't get clicks you put answers. I told them after to check their affiliate program and they ask for refund. Man when I setup casinos on my site i work right ? so when I ask for that fee is for the Service I give to them. I do email marketing , ads and so on . So when I spend Money and see no results I'm starting to ask questions. On this program the problem was with tracking and I didn't focused anymore and in the end I took them off. But No refund, Who pays my hours worked on their side? Mailings which i sent and so on ? Who?
    => Stick to the question, did you deliver the expected amount of real players/FTDs?

    5. This program has several attacks from affiliates and just saw on affiliate guard dog or
    whatever that name is. so please stop chasing rabbits.
    => Stick to the question - was there an agreement/contract in place that covers the payment policies?

    6. I do promise players and if i don't deliver i still keep the program under my website, but in the same time i start checking and whats wrong, if i still see that there is something dodgy i terminate the contract immediately. In their case their boss pissed me off and this made the process faster.
    => Stick to the question - can you or anyone else validate any tracking issues with BestPay Partners?

    7. I know that with some old programs its much harder to get players but I'm 100% sure that if i use my mailers on one program they will get between 50-80 new registered players (If It's USA especially) from the first sent.
    Plus there is the site traffic, couldn't get a damn click and so on.
    anyway they pulled over after 2 months, and then i sent mailers too for European traffic.. and believe me could get nothing.. These are the worst stats ever. And i end it here. This program is terminated from my eyes FOREVER.

    Anyway the main reason is that i stopped using mailers on their side and the lady got angry. Why ? If you explain that to me you are the best !
    => Stick to the question -was this mobile or e-mail traffic you have been sending?

    Have a nice weekend ! going to holiday for 1 week

    Let me give a conclusion to this one:
    Casino operators and dear colleagues, never do pre-payments even if you intend to support the ideas of other webmasters within our industry especially not, if they have skype names like: "cashmeplz"
    Dear Webmasters, thesik - you too - Please never ever request a pre-payment if you are not 100% sure, you will be able to deliver, otherwise just go for a very effective CPA, RevShare or hybrid deal, that will work for everyone on long term.
    To all "Rival doubter's" out there - stop wining already and promote your brands with your kind of traffic you can deliver, if it works for you, i am happy for you and for the labels you are sending too. The fact is, that we are currently the biggest Rival operation out there, that is happy to work with an amazing pool of Affiliate Partners, Affiliate Networks and Media Partners/Networks. Don't be the jealous guys but share the success with us, as we share it with you.
    BestPay Partners is in 2013 known as one the best best converting and paying Affiliate Programs within our industry for markets: France, UK, Spain, Italy, Germany. With conversion rates up to 80% and player values far above average our partners know why they are working with us.

  8. #6
    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    what the hell are you talking there, can't you see that you have problems across everywhere...
    1.There was no policy with you.
    2.Your stats ARE NOT WORKING!
    3.You are talking rubbish, I said i will put you up on my site, this does not mean PUSHING YOU! I used my resources and haven't seen PROPER STATS.
    4. Your Room compared to other Rival Casino its from Hell to Heaven
    5. Mobile traffic Is new and YES I DO HAVE IT - BUT NEVER SENT IT TO YOU. NEVER INTENDED and NEVER WILL DO IT, ...
    6. I Cannot validate - IT'S not my system it's yours ... BUT I CAN COMPARE - so it's the same thing

    anyway whatever - i'm getting tired with you ...
    What I do like is this and it's really funny i bet 8 in 10 people who see how you comment will laugh on the end.
    People : LOOK THERE : WE ARE THE BEST PROGRAM EVER ! OMG - THEY ARE KEEP SAYING THAT and not only here ! man stop the bullshit with me .... FIX YOUR AFFILIATE STATS!

    Quote Originally Posted by BestPay Partners View Post
    1. I got paid for services (i don't do free work anymore in this industry!)

    => You got paid 400$ as an agreement of pre-payment, which means, we pay you, because we trust in your idea as webmaster that you will be able to manage to bring in this case at least 1 or 2 Real signups that will convert to Depositing players, which never happened as we all know now (after 5 months).

    2. From my history with other partners I know that i have to had players that will come in.
    => According to history with other partners, you are already known as rude fraud in the industry: Gambling Portal Webmasters Association

    3. I'm 100% stats not working
    => Just because your traffic is not working, does not mean that our stats are not working

    4. Man when you use several mailing lists and you don't get clicks you put answers. I told them after to check their affiliate program and they ask for refund. Man when I setup casinos on my site i work right ? so when I ask for that fee is for the Service I give to them. I do email marketing , ads and so on . So when I spend Money and see no results I'm starting to ask questions. On this program the problem was with tracking and I didn't focused anymore and in the end I took them off. But No refund, Who pays my hours worked on their side? Mailings which i sent and so on ? Who?
    => Stick to the question, did you deliver the expected amount of real players/FTDs?

    5. This program has several attacks from affiliates and just saw on affiliate guard dog or
    whatever that name is. so please stop chasing rabbits.
    => Stick to the question - was there an agreement/contract in place that covers the payment policies?

    6. I do promise players and if i don't deliver i still keep the program under my website, but in the same time i start checking and whats wrong, if i still see that there is something dodgy i terminate the contract immediately. In their case their boss pissed me off and this made the process faster.
    => Stick to the question - can you or anyone else validate any tracking issues with BestPay Partners?

    7. I know that with some old programs its much harder to get players but I'm 100% sure that if i use my mailers on one program they will get between 50-80 new registered players (If It's USA especially) from the first sent.
    Plus there is the site traffic, couldn't get a damn click and so on.
    anyway they pulled over after 2 months, and then i sent mailers too for European traffic.. and believe me could get nothing.. These are the worst stats ever. And i end it here. This program is terminated from my eyes FOREVER.

    Anyway the main reason is that i stopped using mailers on their side and the lady got angry. Why ? If you explain that to me you are the best !
    => Stick to the question -was this mobile or e-mail traffic you have been sending?

    Have a nice weekend ! going to holiday for 1 week

    Let me give a conclusion to this one:
    Casino operators and dear colleagues, never do pre-payments even if you intend to support the ideas of other webmasters within our industry especially not, if they have skype names like: "cashmeplz"
    Dear Webmasters, thesik - you too - Please never ever request a pre-payment if you are not 100% sure, you will be able to deliver, otherwise just go for a very effective CPA, RevShare or hybrid deal, that will work for everyone on long term.
    To all "Rival doubter's" out there - stop wining already and promote your brands with your kind of traffic you can deliver, if it works for you, i am happy for you and for the labels you are sending too. The fact is, that we are currently the biggest Rival operation out there, that is happy to work with an amazing pool of Affiliate Partners, Affiliate Networks and Media Partners/Networks. Don't be the jealous guys but share the success with us, as we share it with you.
    BestPay Partners is in 2013 known as one the best best converting and paying Affiliate Programs within our industry for markets: France, UK, Spain, Italy, Germany. With conversion rates up to 80% and player values far above average our partners know why they are working with us.
    I am telling you - you are the worst partner i ever met really! your room is banned from many affiliate portals and believe me you will be putted on the black list here too. GPWA will be forced to act or it will be bad for them too if they allow Programs like you staying alive. You have problems across everywhere... in the past month everybody is on your head, stop selling me things like the best program on the net. waste of time ... really.
    Last edited by tehsik; 2 August 2013 at 12:16 pm.

  9. #7
    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    how arrogant can you be and keep saying on every single post WE ARE THE BEST OF 2013 ? Jesus can't u figure how bad it sounds ?

  10. #8
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    If in fact an agreement of pre-payment was made and you did not deliver enough players to cover that and more, then obviously you would not be due additional funds.

    As far as specific casinos not converting on a specific website, just about every affiliate here can tell a story of having at least one casino they can never seem to convert on a site no matter what they try, (even though the same software might convert like crazy on the same site)....this happens and is a phenomina we have ALL seen at one time or another and this does NOT mean that program should immediately be suspect.

    You keep screaming the stats aren't working, but do not provide enough informaton. What stats did NOT work?

    Looking at your post above
    the bottom line is that compared to other casino in the same area which is Rival - RTG network i had over 300 players registered in 4 months ... compare 300 new regitered players versus 7 and you end up on nothing
    Are you trying to say that Rivals should convert in the exact same manner as RTG's as you say?

    Rick
    Universal4
    Last edited by universal4; 2 August 2013 at 12:31 pm. Reason: fixed end quote tag

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  12. #9
    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    no man you deviate ....

    I was comparing the "sending traffic to another RIVAL AFFILIATE PROGRAM" with them - and there is a BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE! 1 to 1000 ... where they were 1 ...

    yes I do compare - when u got 0 with a big difference in a big network it is something ! especially when you do thousands of mailers! man i use to do hundred of thousands of mailers for US thru other affiliate programs and most of them where RIVAL - never failed!

    the fight started when they asked me to push more mailers - which i saw it irrelevant and with no point ...
    neah some casinos use RTG as well ... so i added this network too. and Yes I do believe Rival and RTG are good networks, and that is why i got so nervous.
    Last edited by tehsik; 2 August 2013 at 12:49 pm.

  13. #10
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    No I am NOT deviating, you are jumping up and down and screaming so much without calmly explaining the problem.

    Based STRICTLY upon your statements I am asking specific questions of clarifications, and YOU keep trying to redirect rather than answer the question.
    I was comparing the "sending traffic to another RIVAL AFFILIATE PROGRAM" with them - and there is a BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGG DIFFERENCE! 1 to 1000 ... where they were 1
    Is actually a different statement then you said before. And this is imilar to the phenomina many of us have seen that some times this actually happens, where one brand will convert on a site and another brand using the same software will not.

    I know this does NOT sound logical, but just about every affiliate that has been around a long time has seen this. Now when the numbers are WAAAY off, it does give pause and leads to discussions of trying to figure out what can be done to change that, but only with calm and careful discussions can the root cause of this be worked out.

    Some times it might be as simple as the banner used or the anchor text needs changed.

    Are you interested in working something out with BestPay?

    You claim BestPay is being arrogant, and yet they claim you had an agreement that included a pre-payment of $400 and BestPay states that you delivered no depositing players to cover that.

    Were you provided a pre-payment of $400?
    Did you deliver depositing players to cover that?

    You state
    There was no policy with you.
    Are you saying they just gave you $400 without any terms of performance?

    Let me ask this one again...What stats did NOT work?

    Rick
    Universal4

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    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    I'm not screaming and i am very calm - in fact i am having fun right now
    no bestpay is over for me, the payment was for the coverage on the site, and as far as i told you from the start i charge for my time, the problem is that you do not understand that, i do not do cashback my friend, money flows, and i am not deviating - i was talking about mailers .... and i tried many templates, most of them i build myself, didn't worked. The terms are the coverage on the site. What i do from time to time is that i am telling partners on how much they should expect minimum, but with this partner it was Impossible - cause not even clicks worked out. Compare and read properly and understand cause many of you are in this business for centuries and still does not know how mailers are working. I wasn't talking about banners or stuff, mailers cause this is the most important thing. And i wanted to make myself clear from the start when you make mailers and you know what you are doing and see nothing you start to put questions. anyway this topic deviates however you take it and i really don;t have time to write books on your forum.
    anyway i'm off.
    Last edited by tehsik; 2 August 2013 at 1:27 pm.

  15. #12
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    So, let me get this clear, BestPay made a $400 payment to you without an invoice and without a clear contract on what it covered?

    The reason I ask is that if they did make a payent to you without first agreeing on paper as to what it covered, then most certainly if you assumed it covered one thing and they assumed it was a pre-payment on depositing players, then you certainly have a solid case on the $400.

    But I think you are not calm and in fact I have asked you a number of times to clarify a point that you have stated....
    What stats did NOT work?

    And bytheway, I have compared and read all of your posts VERY CAREFULLY, and is why I have asked you to clarify some of your statements to make sure since you have stated a few things differently.

    Rick
    Universal4

    And bytheway, many many MANY of us here, even though we are old and a bit decrepit, we undertsand fully how mailers work.....

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  17. #13
    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    there was an invoice - that s right, what i did is i charged for marketing services. it is so hard to understand ? I do my own rules in my house - I CHARGE FOR MY WORK. AND stats are not working and i am ending this here. if you want to understand that's fine, if not that's fine. This is my opinion and if you do want to promote them be my guest. What was on paper is formal and shows what i have and what i can provide But not guarantee, I admit it gives me advantage all the time but this is how I do business. So if you want to dance with me You dance.

  18. #14
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    Ok, so the invoice is for time/consulting/marketing and NOT pre-payment or advance for commissions...

    if they paid you under that term, then yes the money is yours
    If in fact they paid you under those terms, but they assumed it was a prepayment for commissions earned and they failed to have you sign an agreement or invoice to that effect, then that is the mistake of BestPay, and the money is still yours.

    Even though I have asked you a number of times what stats did not work, you have not answered.

    Did you do any kind of click testing before placing links/creatives on your site or sending out any mailers?
    Did you attempt to adjust links or marketing materials in any way during the first part of the campaign if you felt you weren't getting the results you wanted?

    You keep accusing me of trying to dance with you, when I am trying to get straight answers so I have all the FACTS.

    Rick
    Universal4

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    tehsik is offline Private Member
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    aiaiaiai ... well you really don't understand me ... the dance thing was about if you want to do business with me it's ok if not it's ok.
    anyway keep asking about stats and i will give you the same answer - stats not working ... you understand whatever you wish from this. this was my opinion and i wanted to share to everybody, the program is a crap and that's it .... if you want i can give you dozens of links related to this program. but of course you will delete them cause they are your competitors (the links related to this program).. just google bestpay partners rogue or whatever you want... make some proper re-search and come back.
    Have a nice weekend
    Last edited by tehsik; 2 August 2013 at 7:31 pm.

  20. #16
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    From reading everything, I am assuming he is saying that the program paid him a marketing fee in advance. He was to promote them in certain ways. He promoted them those ways and the "business" did not show up in the program's stats (he no longer uses the email company and thus has no way to prove or disprove whether his players clicked the links or not).

    Thus, his claim is that he owes nothing back.

  21. #17
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    Saying the stats not working does not answer the question.

    Shay I appreciate it, but I did not see a single place where he said he used anyone else to send these mailers.

    He talks about sending several hundred thousands emails a year, but we don't know if it is a purchased spam list or his own in-house generated list of subscribers.

    He claims "the stats don't work" but he never explains what portion of the stats do not work.

    He will not answer the question of whether he did any testing of the campiagn links whatsoever before he started his mailings.

    Originally he compared RTG results with Rival results, althoug he did correect that statement and says he was comparing Rival to Rivals.

    I think he has a bit of a case, and like I stated above I think he clearly earned the $400 if in fact BestPay did not have an invoice or even email that the payment was meant as an advance.

    Not once did I ever "deviate" away from the few simple questions as I was trying to get as many of the actual facts as he understood them to be.

    As far as his claim that he owes nothing back, I would have to agree with that unless BestPay comes up with an invoice, email or some form of agreement that he signed or acknowledged that the $400 was an advance or pre-payment for players or revenue.

    In the end I would think that BestPay may not be so quick to give out advances without first getting an agreement in writing.

    Rick
    Universal4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    20:16 bestpaypartners, Switzerland
    Switzerland?

    Country code for Switzerland is 41


    Source: bestpaypartners.com/deutsch/kontakt
    Switzerland?


    Source: www.igamingaffiliateprograms.com/affiliate-program/bestpay-partners/

    +41 22 508 7041 is a Swiss phone number.

    An affiliate company from Israel should not hide behind a Swiss phone number and not be so stupid to use a phone number, criminals have used in the past.


    Source: http://www.boiler-rooms.org/profit-club-investments/

    Another example?
    Look here: http://www.boiler-rooms.org/rooney-g...-partners-llc/
    Switzerland?

    A good company don't use offshore maildrop adresses or offshore phone numbers that are marked as fraud. This is not very professional and not inspiring confidence.

    The street adress is well known: http://yellow.local.ch/de/q/6,%20ave...age=2&rid=S1gi

    Leopold

    Wow That is some good investigating!

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    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post

    Shay I appreciate it, but I did not see a single place where he said he used anyone else to send these mailers.
    I can't find it either now. Maybe it was a different thread or a different person. I was pretty sure that it was this forum/issue where something was said about not having access to a program. My bad.

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    Here is my interpretation of this thread: tehsik is suggesting that his main marketing effort for this "agreement" was to send out mailers to his extensive mailing list. Clicks and sign-ups were extremely low compared to other campaigns he has run for other companies.

    He tried different templates and different target markets, over several months, and still the clicks and conversions were non existent. That is when he became suspicious so he stopped marketing for them.

    He was then contacted by an affiliate manager who asked him why he had stopped the campaign. He suggests that it was suspicious that the aff manager only contacted him once he had stopped the promo and thus the traffic had dried up for the apparent non existent conversions.

    Were he got his mailing list from is not the issue here.

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