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  1. #1
    loquax is offline Private Member
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    Default Betfair Suspension.. Poor Affiliate Experience

    So on 1st June I tried to login to our Betfair account to find it's flagged as suspended. There was no prior notice/email/conversation - nothing.

    I've tried contacting the AM team about this (we had a similar issue with Paddy Power that got resolved due to a compliance issue - again where no there was no prior communication). No reply. So I contacted an old AM who's still at the company and that got me a reply from the AM team, but no answers.

    Instead I was told this had already been dealt with (it hadn't), then it might be something to do with The Grand National.. and now we're back to radio silence. I have complained to my old AM about what has happened but seriously doubt that gets any light of day.

    Having had a Dear John from Bet365, 888/Broadway doing their thing and this with 888 all within a few weeks it's safe to say this has not been my most enjoyable month as an affiliate

  2. #2
    tufty is offline Public Member
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    Thanks for posting your unfortunate experience. As you say, it is typical of Paddy Power Betfair. More than that it is typical of all the UK-facing affiliate programs. There isn't one good one, except perhaps Bet365 who I still promote and I understand does still pay in full on the player base for any of their former affiliates. Beyond Bet365, they are all total crooks in the UK. I only promote 4 UK firms now - it used to be maybe a dozen. Three of those 4 couldn't lie straight in bed, and I have ditched the even more corrupt ones - or they have shut the door on me, stealing the player bases.

    Personally, I just view the UK affiliate market as a very slow death. It's quite refreshing when you decide you can't fight the corruption and that the business is dead and everything going forward is just a bonus. I guess you guys made some decent profits back in the day - maybe you still do. You certainly used to have some good positions on google. I hope, like me, you have adjusted your business model accordingly and taken your money into other business areas. It is no fun knocking yourselves out trying to swim upstream in the face of the type of fraud perpetuated by Paddy Power Betfair and all the rest.

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  4. #3
    loquax is offline Private Member
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    It's quite refreshing when you decide you can't fight the corruption and that the business is dead and everything going forward is just a bonus
    Yeah that's pretty much where we are now. We had factored in 888/Broadway but thought the forthcoming white paper wouldn't be good news for affiliates so we're not in an unexpected situation - just got there in a different way.

  5. #4
    loquax is offline Private Member
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    Just an update on this...

    Although we're an active affiliate and generating some players for Betfair, the number we're generating is not many - which is fair enough the numbers are small. We've possibly been flagged as inactive and the result is that our account was deactivated so we can no longer be an active affiliate. With me so far?

    However if we promise to be a more active affiliate and do more activity for Betfair in the future then our account will be reactivated at least until the next time we're deemed inactive even if we are active. And if we do get flagged as inactive then we won't get paid.

  6. #5
    tufty is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by loquax View Post
    However if we promise to be a more active affiliate and do more activity for Betfair in the future then our account will be reactivated at least until the next time we're deemed inactive even if we are active. And if we do get flagged as inactive then we won't get paid.
    Yep I get it. In short, they are saying that they are mickey-taking, insulting, clueless, thieving c*@!s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    Yep I get it. In short, they are saying that they are mickey-taking, insulting, clueless, thieving c*@!s.
    Yeah I agree with this sentiment too... hardly motivating to be a "more active" affiliate is it!

    Sorry you're having a a crap month....betfair did this to us about a year ago tho I guess we were pretty inactive ..but still..no word from anyone there..just couldn't log in one day.

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    Had exactly the same experience. After years of supporting and promoting our account was suspending without notice. In trying to communicate and resolve the situation there are no replies from them ... they don't care.
    statsdrone.com

    Want to try the StatsDrone for free for 30 days? Would you like a demo? DM me!

  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    Thanks for posting your unfortunate experience. As you say, it is typical of Paddy Power Betfair. More than that it is typical of all the UK-facing affiliate programs. There isn't one good one, except perhaps Bet365 who I still promote and I understand does still pay in full on the player base for any of their former affiliates. Beyond Bet365, they are all total crooks in the UK. I only promote 4 UK firms now - it used to be maybe a dozen. Three of those 4 couldn't lie straight in bed, and I have ditched the even more corrupt ones - or they have shut the door on me, stealing the player bases.

    Personally, I just view the UK affiliate market as a very slow death. It's quite refreshing when you decide you can't fight the corruption and that the business is dead and everything going forward is just a bonus. I guess you guys made some decent profits back in the day - maybe you still do. You certainly used to have some good positions on google. I hope, like me, you have adjusted your business model accordingly and taken your money into other business areas. It is no fun knocking yourselves out trying to swim upstream in the face of the type of fraud perpetuated by Paddy Power Betfair and all the rest.
    Sorry to hear about your crappy experience Loquax, I hope you get some answers from them.

    With regards to what Tufty said I was wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating a little if you dont mind.

    When you decided to move away from the UK brands did you specifically target a certain country? Most of my traffic now is UK based although I do get some from the EU but have not targeted any other country specifically. Obvioulsy the EU is big and a very mixed bag so knowing where to target and if that means a new website and totally different approach is something Im not sure of. The thought of starting over is scary but the way things are going its imperative that I move in to other areas as the situation in the UK is just getting worse.

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    Hi there,

    There is nothing new apparently here. It happened to us at the end of last year as well without any notice, having an active affiliate account, doing around 500-1000 gbp per month. I wasn't checking the stats all the time, maybe a login once every several months, and when I tried to login to affiliate account after few months of not receiving any payments from them to see what happens.

    When I emailed Graeme, the account manager about this, he reverted he will check it and then he went silent. On my next email requesting any updates I received an email from someone in their legal team saying the account was terminated and to remove any materials about Betfair.

    This whole situation is even more unpleasant because of their lack of transparency and fairness, and that fact they did not send any emails/notices before, but got complacent to still be promoted and get referrals from us without paying.

    We have to recognise brands that are getting in the position of milk cows, simply milking more money out of the business while at the same time cutting costs (in this case screwing affiliates), for the sake of showing great revenues to their shareholders and board of directors to cash in on big checks. I think this will only lower their visibility in time and ability to make money. Fairly similar to Entain brands which only manages to shows still great results in numbers because of continuous mergers simply adding up to their totals.

  12. #10
    loquax is offline Private Member
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    Sorry to hear about your crappy experience Loquax, I hope you get some answers from them.
    We did get some kind of answer - streamlining affiliates so as to minimise risk of compliance issues etc. which is nonsense because small affiliates can manage to be compliant - perhaps even more so because they know one slip up could be very costly in terms of earnings. I've never understood the streamlining affiliates angle either especially when you can go months and months without hearing from an AM or it takes forever to get any kind of reply from them.

    When I emailed Graeme, the account manager about this, he reverted he will check it and then he went silent.
    Exactly the same experience and we got an email from another AM saying we were "unfair" for namechecking Graeme on an article - but obviously he has form. Anyway you can guess my reply as to what I though "unfair" actually was - such as no notice, no indication of payments (we weren't suspended in May so they should pay us) etc.

    This whole situation is even more unpleasant because of their lack of transparency and fairness, and that fact they did not send any emails/notices before, but got complacent to still be promoted and get referrals from us without paying.
    Ditto on this too - surely to minimise compliance risks the operator should either deactive links so that they don't benefit in any way from the affiliates they've dumped.

    When you decided to move away from the UK brands did you specifically target a certain country?
    Not sure if that's for Tufty or not but just in case we're not looking at other areas. Once we've squeezed whatever is left out of the UK market then that'll be it.

  13. #11
    tufty is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madz View Post
    With regards to what Tufty said I was wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating a little if you dont mind.

    When you decided to move away from the UK brands did you specifically target a certain country? Most of my traffic now is UK based although I do get some from the EU but have not targeted any other country specifically. Obvioulsy the EU is big and a very mixed bag so knowing where to target and if that means a new website and totally different approach is something Im not sure of. The thought of starting over is scary but the way things are going its imperative that I move in to other areas as the situation in the UK is just getting worse.
    I do promote unregulated USA brands on separate website, but I have done for 22 years and I would not necessarily recommend diving into that potentially dying / problematic market right now as the easy / glory days are behind us. The regulated USA market does not pay out properly in terms of affiliate deals available. The value there may be in establishing and then selling a website further down the line. When I mentioned "other business areas" I meant completely different business areas - not betting affiliate programs. In my case property investment and crypto, the latter I was lucky enough to get into properly in 2015 (BTC circa $300) thanks to a push from unregulated USA affiliate programs who would only pay BTC and help from a knowledgeable individual on this forum. But that is just my personal view and I am too tired of the affiliate business to be bothered with starting again afresh. I'll carry on in the UK as that market dies through the dishonesty and corruption of the programs (by the likes of Paddy Power Betfair, SkyBet and them all) and I'll carry on in unregulated USA space as that market dies through unregulated firms being driven out. Though unregulated USA market may linger for a few years yet - and perhaps via crypto only offering - and at least they are more honest than UK or USA regulated market.

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by John247 View Post
    When I emailed Graeme, the account manager about this, he reverted he will check it and then he went silent. On my next email requesting any updates I received an email from someone in their legal team saying the account was terminated and to remove any materials about Betfair.

    This whole situation is even more unpleasant because of their lack of transparency and fairness, and that fact they did not send any emails/notices before, but got complacent to still be promoted and get referrals from us without paying.

    We have to recognise brands that are getting in the position of milk cows, simply milking more money out of the business while at the same time cutting costs (in this case screwing affiliates), for the sake of showing great revenues to their shareholders and board of directors to cash in on big checks.
    This is exactly what p*sses me off too!! This rogue and greedy scamming behaviour!

  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by loquax View Post
    Having had a Dear John from Bet365
    what happened at bet365?

    There are plenty of areas of interest that can be done. For example buying horses and trying to profit from it (sorry, just a joke).

    I have an impression that what is happening in affiliate industry is happening elsewhere too. It is all the same. Money that were pumped to the economy made a lot of people paper rich in all areas.

    And now the party is over. Regardless of how you were diversifying or not. We will be either poor or dead, at least until humans will be through the economical reset.

    And because we are humans, we always choose the more long and more painful road. So the economy is hiccuping to the death for many years and who knows whether we are near the end. I would bet that yes.

    So do not worry about betfair. Their purpose is to steal. UK market can not be worse for years, because it is already at zero. One of my active UK accounts are at Kindred so I can see UK players' values. Even if some UK programs did not rob you by accident, then the value of UK player is approx. zero.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
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    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  16. #14
    loquax is offline Private Member
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    what happened at bet365?
    Terminated to "ensure that we can continue to meet our regulatory obligations in a focused and streamlined way". On the plus side they're at least still paying for previous players but we were always compliant, used their copy as required etc. so I don't think we were a threat to their obligations.

    It'd just have been nice if we'd have had some kind of prior conversation with the affiliate team (if they actually have one for bingo these days).

    Jason

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    On the plus side they're at least still paying for previous players
    That is the important thing. They paid me now more after they closed the account than before. They do not have the obligation to let us know upfront. They do what the deal is about.

    Take it from the brighter side. You do not need to promote them to maintain the RS (yes they have that clause in their rules too).

    They just sent you to a pension (if you were smart enough to promote mostly them). Unlike betfair, who are thieves, who just sent you under a bridge.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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    TheBoyMitchell is offline Private Member
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    Personally, having lost my business to Skybet in 2017, I've managed to keep going.

    But now I'm thinking the UK party is over and as affiliates we need to diversify into other verticals and not just rely on our gaming sites.

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    Good to hear you're still going Neil. It'll be interesting to see what this forthcoming White Paper brings and how that will effect affiliates. I can't imagine it'll have anything beneficial.

    Jason

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