Bitcoin Gambling: An Overview of an Emerging Multimillion Dollar Industry

[universal4]

I do not doubt that one day many people holding bitcoins may likely be hurt and be very sorry they held on to them.

Just because they increased in such value over the last year does NOT prove they are a good investment, and there is no indicators they are a safe investment.

I took a look at Litecoin also, they are trying to ride the bitcoin coatails although if I am not mistaken that currency is not limited to a set amount?

In my opinion the entire "crypto currency" is completely un-necessary and the proliferation of standard e-wallets, (Paypal, MoneyBookers, Skrill, Google Wallet etc..) will continue to grow and become more mainstream.

Standard ewallets have many more benefits, they are more accepted since "end users" do not have to learn aout new money or currency and they are able to think in terms oif what they know whether that be dollars, yen, pounds, euros or whatever.

When a person thinks about cash in their pocket or their direct deposit of their paycheck in the bank, they think in terms of how many dollars they have to spend, not how many bitcoins.

When they think in terms of bitcoins, they think..."how many dollars is it worth" or "how many pounds or euros does it cost to buy one". They also think, "I wonder if I will make any dollars, pounds or euros on this bitcoin stuff and whether I will be able to sell them for a profit before the bottom falls out?"

Rick
Universal4

[DanHorvat]

Rick, it might just be possible that you, me, and other people not believing in Bitcoins might find ourselves on the outside very quickly. While people do think "how many dollars is this Bitcoin worth" now, it can shift instantly to "how many Bitcoins is this currency worth" when there's critical mass. I wouldn't be surprised if some kid would laugh at Gooner, you and me for being dinosaurs.

Stocks are also thin air. They're based on the perceived value, not on real value of the company and the sum of bricks in factory walls. Stocks, gold, Bitcoin - they're serving exactly the same purpose.

I still can't believe there's a smartphone game market and that people are willing to play games without quality, without structure and with 1995 graphics, and yet it happened.

The main problems I see with Bitcoin is that it's shady, unregulated, used for criminal activities, prone to hacking as it's purely electronic. But then again, if people are willing to play 1995 games in 2013...I guess anything can happen.

I also see no difference between online gaming vs. brick and mortar gaming, electronic banking vs. hard cash, and Bitcoins vs. hard cash. It's the same thing. Online, you don't have the betting ticket in your hand but you still know you got it. When you see you got 1543.21 € on your Bet365 account, it's not like you really have it, it's not like Bet365 has a separate drawer with your 1543.21 € waiting for you and will ship you those exact bills and coins. It's purely electronic, it's thin air, but the number has a fixed 1:1 ratio to the hard cash you'll receive, and the currency is the same, the trust is absolute, so nobody is thinking about it this way.

(the above statement may be tested by asking yourself is the trust absolute in case of a shady bookie, and do you believe the 1543.21 € are really yours)

With Bitcoins, it's not a 1:1 ratio, the ratio is not fixed, the currency name is different, and the trust is not yet absolute. When/if trust becomes absolute, you got a revolution.

[AE-Stephen]

Any currency is worth what the public believe it is worth. Every currency is built on confidence, with no confidence there is no value. The problem is is that bitcoin is so volatile. With it being so new, and unregulated it could easily fall like a pyramid of cards with one wrong move, then again it could go on to be a world recognized currency.

In any event its a gamble, not a calculated risk, I don't think it can be compared to the stocks of a company that has been established many many years.

I don't know enough about bitcoins to make a judgement on how long it will last or how successful it will go on to be but I do find it interesting.

[universal4]

Those are really good points Dan, however we are talking about something that reaches directly into our pants pockets for the wallet.

I think you said it well when you mention the money in a wallet in a casino or bookie has a direct 1 to 1 ratio with a monetary value that peple know and understand.

A bitcoin is not a direct currency, in order to "spend" it you must first "sell" it and hope that you will get at least (or more) than what you paid for it when you "bought" it. No other currency requires you to purchase it in order to save it or sell it in order to buy something.

Rick
Universal4

[sweetbet]

I've only just started thinking about promoting a couple of bitcoin casinos, but I need to decide on a reliable bitcoin wallet (perhaps coinbase), and then find a couple of decent affiliate programs. Can anyone recommend a reliable bitcoin casino affiliate program?

[universal4]

Saw this article today, and it truly highlights why the various world governments are taking a closer look at all the digital currencies, and the risk associated with that closer look.
http://news.yahoo.com/u-treasury-cau...6--sector.html

Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) has sent "industry outreach" letters to about a dozen firms, regarding potential anti-money laundering compliance obligations related to Bitcoin businesses,

The letters have had a "chilling effect" on Bitcoin businesses, which are intimidated by the threat of civil and criminal sanctions for non-compliance, said Jon Matonis, executive director of the Bitcoin Foundation, an advocacy group. The firms, he said, may effectively be "put out of business in an extrajudicial manner."

Will Bitcoin and other digital currencies be able to survive this? Maybe in the long term, but I do think that many will be hurt until we reach that point. I think the the "complete anonimity" that is often touted as one of their biggest selling points will go away, and without that what do you need any digital currency for then?

E-wallets and debit cards are already digital forms of the money you have, and they allow you to continue to think in terms of a dollar is a dollar.

Rick
Universal4

[Sherlock]

BTC or another kvasicryptocurrency will become real currency when some bigger state like Italy or Spain will bankrupt and people and their trust will search for new symbol. Small states will always dolarise or euroise their economy, but bigger states can not do what Montenegro, Bulgary or some South American states did. After that I believe cryptocurrency can rule the world. But until this happens many bad things like cyberattacks of governments will happen and paralyse the system and currency.

If BTC has to be used in gambling then some big brand has to step in. And big brands do not want to have anything in common with BTC as banks do not want to be involved with "drug trafficking and selling guns".

I think the hope comes from guys like Calvin Ayre or from Asia (Sbobet etc.). Even Pinnacle is soft I think nowadays.

[judywhite]

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Since this is a non taxable system, illegal activities are obviously possible. Casino and pornography will sell like hot cakes. Surely, my male friends will love this. Plus, BTC has no chargeback. Who doesn’t want that anyway?

[DanHorvat]

Will Bitcoin and other digital currencies be able to survive this? Maybe in the long term, but I do think that many will be hurt until we reach that point. I think the the "complete anonimity" that is often touted as one of their biggest selling points will go away, and without that what do you need any digital currency for then?

If the government is "taking a closer look" you can lock up.

I'm thinking the situation could be the same as with online gambling, with USA banning it and the rest of the world making money off it and regulating the market. Here's an good article:
http://letstalkpayments.com/governme...ngth-weakness/

[baldidiot]

Way too volatile for my liking - down to ~$530 now from a high of $1250 a couple of weeks ago.

[LukeC]

You beat me to it baldidiot - incidentally, it was a Government clampdown that caused it too.

Also, Bitcoins are different to stocks and funds with licensed betting operators. You have legal rights if you own shares in public companies, which are heavily regulated, and as far as I'm aware, your funds with a sufficiently licensed and regulated gambling operator make you a creditor (albeit at a low priority if they were to go bankrupt). You have no rights over Bitcoins.

[DanHorvat]

If you invest in something which goes bankrupt, you're bankrupt as well. You have all the fancy rights of something worth 0.

You have no rights over Pounds Sterling either.

[LukeC]

If you invest in something which goes bankrupt, you're bankrupt as well. You have all the fancy rights of something worth 0.

You have no rights over Pounds Sterling either.

Investing in something that goes bankrupt it depends - if the company has no money to pay its creditors after all the assets are liquidated, you would lose all your investment, but if there is money after assets have been liquidated, you are entitled to a proportion. If the company is publicly traded, you'd see the warning signs as they have to be announced to the stock market. You also have legal rights in any company in which you hold shares in that you're entitled to a proportion of any dividend that is paid; and directors and employees of the company have to act in the best interests of shareholders (which you, as a shareholder, could legally challenge if you felt they were acting against that) otherwise they risk personal legal penalties.

Rights over Pounds Sterling is slightly different - it's legally recognized as a currency and as such, you do have rights over it. If an operator (I am only talking about legitimate operators here, that act within the law) that you hold funds with declares bankruptcy, there are certain legal processes they must go through to pay their creditors. Whilst you would not be the highest priority creditor (the Government and financial institutions come first), it's likely you would get some of your money. Some bookmakers ring-fence their client funds, which would mean they are kept separately from the companies own funds and are therefore secured if the company goes bankrupt.

Even if a bank goes bankrupt, the UK Government guarantees up to, I believe ~£30k, of your personal funds, with each different bank.

[DanHorvat]

Nice, but that's not what happens in real life at all.

All bets are off when there's a collapse and no regulation can make it pretty. It's a false safety net.

I'm just going to mention the bursting of the dot-com bubble and the bursting of the US housing bubble, both happening in a regulated market and not in Kazakhstan.

Bitcoin will either succeed or fail, but if it fails things will get ugly even if Bitcoin is heavily regulated. When an entity goes bankrupt it disappears. If it happens to be regulated the vultures have a certain chance of salvaging something, and that's the only difference.

Regulated marriage collapses, also known as divorces, are the same thing. It can be regulated but when it's gone, it's gone. The court battle actually just makes it worse than breaking up with an unregulated girlfriend.

[baldidiot]

Even if a bank goes bankrupt, the UK Government guarantees up to, I believe ~£30k, of your personal funds, with each different bank.

[tangent]

It's 70k

[/tangent]

[judywhite]

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Online casino has been lucrative due to crypto-currency breakthrough. One day or another, governments can crack down the online gambling market. But that's way far for now and is really something to watch out for.

[Stan Rogers]

Bitcoin is the future of currency. In next few years economists estimate Bitcoin will be worth $100,000+.

[-Shay-]

Bitcoin is the future of currency. In next few years economists estimate Bitcoin will be worth $100,000+.

And if we grow as the same rates we do when we are babies, we'd be about as tall as the "average adult" shortly after age 2 & we'd be 5.8 meters tall by age ten - so "they" say.

I estimate that human growth rate is unsustainable in any "real" level other than on paper.

I also passed up the opportunity to invest in bulk Elvis impersonator costumes, as the growth rate of professional Elvis impersonators should have reached at least one out of every two people in the world by now.
#missedopportunity