Bitcoin as the ONLY payment option, lol what?

[Sherlock]

Exactly. But we are the high end users of Bitcoin. Most people do not use Bitcoins for 4+ figures transactions. We need even poorer guys to use bitcoin. We just do not necessarily need the poorest

The core of bitcoin transactions are something like 50-200 USD darkmarkets deals about marihuana or MDMA, where 30 USD would be slightly over the edge. And 100-500 USD deposits to bookies, where it still can work, but without advantage to recent "fiat" methods. But maybe even for those transactions 30 USD is fine. When I look at fees for sms premium services, they have really high fees. The really free offshore banks who cover their clients charge way over 100 USD per transaction. Those are comparable markets.

[PROFRBcom]

I do think fees will go up, I do not think it will be 3 usd in one year.

I didn't think it would go from 3 cents to 30 cents in a year... anything could happen.

But 3 usd is still fine. 30 usd might be a problem.

I think 3 USD a transaction would kill a lot of transactions on the network. The smaller user transactions. The ones that help increase the popularity of the network. The small transactions that will help bitcoin grow in developing nations where there are enormous amounts of people without access to the banking system. These are people we want on board so that bitcoin lasts!

[Sherlock]

I do not agree with both paragraphs.

Fees will constantly raise, but at lower pace. The reasons are stated above. 3 and 30 cents is not that big difference, so no alternative solution was needed that much until now. (Even when big part of bitcoin world, so called "r/btc", thinks the opposite.) Anything could happen, but honestly I see just one road for fees to be 3 USD in one year and that is 10x or so increase of value of Bitcoin. That would mean that Bitcoin is digital gold more than cryptocurrency and everything would be very very different.

3 USD transactions would kill a lot of transactions. Lot of useless transactions that are now done because people are lazy. Bitcoin is highly secured "payment system", it does not make even sense to use that much hashpower for trivial and legal microtransactions like buying a coffee. It is like using Ferrari instead of tractor. Bitcoin consumes electricity as 1/4 million people. It is suitable as value storage, as reserve currency and for transactions that can afford to pay for that electricity and mining machines. The developing nations maybe need a new payment system. It is even possible that the backbone of that payment system will be bitcoin. But bitcoin will not be the "last mile" instrument in poor Africa. Like m-pesa is african payment system, using (also) bitcoin ledger, but not to the end users. Only the richer people will be able to afford to have access to the bitcoin blockchain directly. It seems now. Everything can change, of course. But now the shift in notion of Bitcoin as "digital gold" is huge.

Gambling needs bitcoin much more than Africa.

[Sherlock]

Just "got" payment from bp. The fee is ridiculously low < 50 sat/B.
So meanwhile the value droped by 4%. The transaction is still unconfirmed.

I do not care, but there are certainly people of this forum like Gooner who care.

I have sent my own bitcoins today with fee 178 sat/B, which was like 0.4 USD. It was immediate. I do not think that to save the 30 cents here is the right way to do it.

[Sherlock]

Attention:

Maybe you know, maybe not, but Bitfinex, the biggest USD echange, recently has payment processing problems. It is the same story as with US casinos. So the first thing now is to NOT use Bitfinex and especially if you are using USD wires, check with your exchange if they can process it.

The second problem is following: there is bit a run on the bank at Bitfinex and everybody is converting their fiat to BTC and withdraw it from Bitfinex. Therefore price of Bitcoin there is atm 5% above market. Since many programs might use the Bitfinex artificial rate as market exchange rate, it might cost you 5%. Nobody should use Bitfinex rate as reference - it is too high (and Chinese exchanges are too low).

The exchnage rates from Kraken, Bitstamp, Coinbase, GDAX... are the only market rates now. Quick compare possible here: http://whalepool.io:8080/coinorama/

[WagerX]

I'm going to go in the other direction. I think Bitcoin is the absolute best way to get affiliate payments. Fast, Free, and convenient. Once you have a means of exchanging to fiat you are good. If you want you can "mix" the transactions as well. (I haven't done that, just saying). It's inevitable that more programs will start doing the same.

[PROFRBcom]

It's inevitable that more programs will start doing the same.

Agreed. Anything that is ahead of the curve is going to be utilized for the foreseeable future.

The exchnage rates from Kraken, Bitstamp, Coinbase, GDAX... are the only market rates now. Quick compare possible here: http://whalepool.io:8080/coinorama/

I think blockchain.info is unaffected as well as their quotes haven't gotten out of line from what I can tell.

[hublot]

I think blockchain.info is unaffected as well as their quotes haven't gotten out of line from what I can tell.

Blockchain.info is only a wallet not an exchange, so they don’t set/trade on prices.

[PROFRBcom]

Blockchain.info is only a wallet not an exchange, so they don’t set/trade on prices.

I suppose I phrased that incorrectly. What I meant to say is that the prices listed there appear to be in line with those recommended and that it could also be a source for checking to see if the prices on other websites are in line with expectations.

[Sherlock]

I think blockchain.info uses bitstamp prices. So yes, they were ok for now.

[TheGooner]

I prefer bitcoincharts.com for a snapshot price and visual refernce to daily / monthly trends (see https://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ )

It quickly summaries major markets across currencies so you can get a feel for the REAL price not just a single currency or market variation.

[WagerX]

After reading these threads from Sherlock and Gooner I see the issue with receiving signnificant sums. For me coinbase has been great for my personal bitcoin exchanging. if I were to receive any significant amounts I believe there would start to be issues with the banking aspect. I wonder how much you can convert to fiat before they start requesting deep KYC (where, how, how, and from who is sending). Now it's more lax, but as regulations start to force moderate use.

Interesting thread.

[TheGooner]

I nearly jumped on (and all over) your earlier post about how good receiving BTC is ... but let it go because I understood you were coming from smaller value. But I took a few breaths and understood your point of view.


Receiving BTC means a FIVE stage process for us to convert BTC to fiat and get it into my local account ... which takes about 3-4 days elapsed.
1/ Receive BTC
2/ Send BTC to exchange
3/ exchange BTC for fiat in liquid currency - the USD / EUR or GBP are viable options ...
4/ send fiat to appropriate bank account in that currency
5/ bring fiat back to my home country.

Where as previously I simply received a bankwire ... so NO - BTC is NOT really convenient.
Especially as that conversion process can be time-consuming.

However, over the last 10 months I have developed BTC sales processes, and negotiated rates that mean that the process is potentially a profit centre as the BTC continues to increase in value, and I can time the final step to ensure a good conversion rate to NZD.

So, while the process is time consuming, it's OK while it's only 2-3 programs are doing it.

In answer to your question about banks - and questions about funds transfer - yes I have to deal with this regularly.
You have to show company history, client details etc, while minimising the G-word.
Advertising, marketing, promotion are all good words.

[Sherlock]

I do not convert btc to fiat with one exception and it is the marginal money I use for my personal expenses in 3rd world countries, where the bitcoins are sold with premium. So I have no idea how it would work. But I have bought in Kraken maybe roughly 10x more bitcoins than I got from affiliate programs, so if I ever start converting them back, I am pretty much covered at btc investor (which I am).

But you have a point. There will be problems and it will be a bumpy road with cryptocurencies. That is part of the game. This is why bitcoin already is not 10k+ - it is the priced in risk.

But hodling is fun for super long term, many things will be different in 5, 10 or 25 years.

[Progger]

I always read fiat....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_126

@Gooner, how many days did u need to move the cash from your btc wallet to your hand ?
@Sherlock, is it possible to but btc with a paysavecard ?

regards

[Sherlock]

It is possible but with extreme premium: https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoi...r/paysafecard/

[wonderpunter]

I nearly jumped on (and all over) your earlier post about how good receiving BTC is ... but let it go because I understood you were coming from smaller value. But I took a few breaths and understood your point of view.


Receiving BTC means a FIVE stage process for us to convert BTC to fiat and get it into my local account ... which takes about 3-4 days elapsed.
1/ Receive BTC
2/ Send BTC to exchange
3/ exchange BTC for fiat in liquid currency - the USD / EUR or GBP are viable options ...
4/ send fiat to appropriate bank account in that currency
5/ bring fiat back to my home country.

Where as previously I simply received a bankwire ... so NO - BTC is NOT really convenient.
Especially as that conversion process can be time-consuming.

However, over the last 10 months I have developed BTC sales processes, and negotiated rates that mean that the process is potentially a profit centre as the BTC continues to increase in value, and I can time the final step to ensure a good conversion rate to NZD.

So, while the process is time consuming, it's OK while it's only 2-3 programs are doing it.

In answer to your question about banks - and questions about funds transfer - yes I have to deal with this regularly.
You have to show company history, client details etc, while minimising the G-word.
Advertising, marketing, promotion are all good words.

With me it's a little different previously it would've been an international wire which takes 3-5 working days to clear, as long as there are no holidays which where i live is pretty common, now bitcoin lands within 20mins i have it in the trading account I exchange straight away then withdraw which takes around 24 hours in Europe.. So I save 3 day's

[Progger]

It is possible but with extreme premium: https://localbitcoins.com/buy-bitcoi...r/paysafecard/

thx....but 50€ = 0.026249 = 18€ for the exchange...is a bad deal

[Sherlock]

I think I never saw anything with paysafecard that was a good deal. Skrill is a **** and this is their shitties operation. You asked so I answered. There are other methods how to get btc at almost market rate with the same or higher level of privacy.

[CATLICKER]

btc has begun a long, slow ride... into obscurity.