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    Default Bookmaker reporting loosing at 50%

    Hi all. Just looking for your input. I have only just entered the UK market have been referring traffic in other regulated markets for years.

    I have been referring traffic to 365 since mid December 2016. I have sent them 440 depositors with 700 deposits totalling 185000. The punters have had 3000+ bets with turnover in excess of 350000 and here comes the punchline, they are claiming that they are loosing 180000. I have been in this game forever and that just can't happen. Loosing at 50% over 3000 bets????

    Has anyone else ever had this issue with them? If so did you ever find out how they do the calculations? It just seems super fishy!

    Thanks in advance.

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    JJ_LBO is offline Public Member
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    Yes, we have exactly the same with bet365. Popular opinion is that the sun shines out of their backsides, but for us they are the worst performing bookie we've worked with. I do trust their stats though, I don't think they're dishonest.

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    Thanks for that. So you would trust the stats I guess that's why they are loosing 10million a year in the Australian market. I might have to start betting with them.

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    I don't do that well with them as an affilaite but I win more with them than anyone else as a punter, so maybe you are right

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    I just can't believe that it's possible for a bookie to loose at 50% over 3000 bets with an average betsize around 100. We are talking 7 bets per punter and the biggest red light is the fact that there are 700 deposits from the 400 odd punters. What are they doing all winning withdrawing and depositing again?

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    You're onto something. Bet365 are sadly my worst-performing program in all aspects: revenue vs active users, deposit size, deposits vs signups, signups vs clicks. And they have neg carryover, which I've actually heard people say is a good thing.

    I work with them closely and am fond of them, but the performance is very poor.

    So your guys deposited 185,000 and lost 180,000? Nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    You're onto something. Bet365 are sadly my worst-performing program in all aspects: revenue vs active users, deposit size, deposits vs signups, signups vs clicks. And they have neg carryover, which I've actually heard people say is a good thing.

    I work with them closely and am fond of them, but the performance is very poor.

    So your guys deposited 185,000 and lost 180,000? Nice.
    No my guys deposited 185000 and won 180000 over 3000+ bets. They all must be superstars. How does a bookie lose 180k on 350k turnover.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by latrobet View Post
    No my guys deposited 185000 and won 180000
    Math.

    Anyway, those are ridiculous numbers, especially in such a relatively large sample of 440 punters. January was a pretty good month for betting on BPL but still...I personally see positive revenue across the board.

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    This is the issue with 365 stats, they don't let you see what individual players are doing. It's highly liekly it is a handful of players, or maybe just one, that is skewing your stats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattbar View Post
    This is the issue with 365 stats, they don't let you see what individual players are doing. It's highly liekly it is a handful of players, or maybe just one, that is skewing your stats.
    I can't see a bookie letting 1 or 2 punters win 360k. I couldn't see them letting 20 win 18k each.

    Just seems fishy. It's as if they are charging us for the bonus bets even if the punter looses it.

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    DanHorvat (24 January 2017), JJ_LBO (24 January 2017)

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    My experience with Bet 365 is high player values but an incredibly low sign up rate, mostly due to market saturation in the UK.

    I hear nothing but good things about their program and whilst their customer service is great and I trust their stats - the low conversion rates and the things I'm reading here make me wonder whether I should be giving them as much exposure as I have been.

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    RacingJim is offline Public Member
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    Bet365 works well for me, but that is a poor start probably due to all the signup bonuses and a few bad results/big player wins. I'd give them longer than a month though to decide, if you keep sending good numbers it will turn around.

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    You would think that my affiliate manager would give me a little feedback.

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    Trouble for us is that we've been sending them players for over 7 years and they still perform worse than anyone else. The time period involved, and number of players accrued over that time, mean that this is no flash in the pan.

    We had to write off our first account over 2 years ago as it was so far in the negative and had never earned a penny. Now we're having to do the same with a second account, albeit this one has earned a couple of grand, but now so far into the red it'll never come back.

    It's a shame as their affiliate team is good, but the numbers don't lie.

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    That's what I'm thinking. If the clients turn over 300k per month and loose at 5% from here on in that will take us 12 months to square off.

    Just doesn't seem worth it with these guys. You would think that they would reward guys that send them converting traffic! I just have this feeling that we are getting screwed. As I said I have been at this for a long time and we don't bother with them in other jurisdictions but we thought the UK was their stomping ground.

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    It is their stomping ground. But apparently they didn't bring you along for the ride.

    People often neglect the fact that we're giving exposure, fantastic link juice, brand awareness etc. basically for free. Even when there is revenue, the operator gets these things extra without paying extra. And when revenue is absent, it makes even less sense.

    I mean, most people who make money from a certain program are in blissful ignorance, and couldn't care less if there's neg carryover or if they're boosting someone's domain authority for free.

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    Do not panic, you will make alot of money if you do not give up and if it is Bet365. They are special. It takes years of patience. If you just started or almost started, there are - apart of the whale(s) - a lot of bonuses, that cause the crazy minus numbers.

    I was despearte with them for first 2+ years, almost gave up. The only good numbers were signups and RMPs. Everything else was ****. After the long time everything is reversed. Trust it or not, but it is up to you. The overall performance will be affected a lot if you have some or many savvy bettors or none.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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    Ahh well. I appreciate that many think highly of the brand. I have made the decision to slice the brand. I spent the past several hours trawling over other brands that we promote and I can't find a single brand that has performed anywhere near that poorly.



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    Just an update to keep the information fresh for those that may be interested.

    We stopped pushing traffic to bet365 first week of February. Since then we have had 9 signups which would be consistent with people having cookies in their browsers.

    But the numbers will still shock anyone that understands corporate bookmakers and how the risk teams work.

    We have had 650+ deposits to the value of €39000+ the punters have had 3500+ bets turned over €100000+ and bet365 claim that they the bookie lost €20000+.

    They can't claim signup bonuses as they have given any for nearly 2months. They surely can't claim smarts as they would have been cutoff a long time ago so what's the story now?

    The affiliate manager can't discuss details with us... ??

    So running total for all time.
    Deposits €180000+
    Turnover€ 430000+
    Net Revenue € -157000+
    Number of bets 8000+

    That's either the worst performance of any bookmaker in history or something smells.




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    Last edited by latrobet; 19 March 2017 at 9:54 pm.

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    With Bet365 you have to play the long game, you won't make money in a month.

    I would personally look for problems with your traffic - sending 440 new depositors in one month to Bet365 doesn't sound like quality. Are you sending UK players or from some other country? And from my experience, 8,000 bets/month from 440 players is VERY low. 39,000 Euro in deposits from 440 players is also very low. Dropping from 180,000 in deposits your first month to 40,000 in the second (while jam-packed with football games) would point to a lot of bonus hunters or arbers.

    If you believe your traffic is quality - hopefully you will see a turnaround in a few months. If you just did a spam campaign - it's anyone's guess.

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