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  1. #1
    bpmee is offline Public Member
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    Exclamation Bovada to leave New York State Market effective June 21, 2021

    Message from Revenue Network after logging in:

    Dear partner,

    This is to inform you that as of June 21st, our partner brand, Bovada, will no longer offer their services to players from NY state.

    Decisions of this nature are made on a state-by-state basis and with consideration of several factors; the most critical being the future climate for online gambling in the state of New York. The newly introduced regulation and its increased restrictions on players residing in NY has ultimately led to this difficult decision.

    What will happen with player accounts?

    - Players can continue to play up to June 21st; however, players should avoid placing wagers on events that will settle after June 21st (Ex. MLB - World Series winner) as these will be voided and the risk amount returned. Any pending wagers on events or sports that will only start after that date (Ex. NFL Props and Futures) will be voided within 24 hours. A Settlement for events or seasons that are already in progress but will finish after June 21st will take place closer to the closure date, further details will be provided.
    - Remaining points have been converted to a cash-bonus (standard rollover applies) for players to use.
    - After today, no further points can be earned or redeemed.
    Deposits and Withdrawals:

    - Our partner brand has wide options for players to withdraw anytime, existing bonus playthrough terms apply.
    - While players can play with your current balance and bonus funds – deposit options will no longer be available.
    Regarding your commissions, players from New York will be included in your earnings until their accounts are closed. At which time, the accounts will no longer have any activity and will no longer generate any earnings.

    If you have any questions about this or anything else, please reach out to your account manager directly, or to our support team at support@revenuenetwork.com.
    Interesting they haven't pulled the plug on West Virginia, Nevada or a couple other states with legalized online sports betting. I think they're out of NJ completely.

    Surprised they're doing it before the legislation is passed.
    Last edited by bpmee; 23 May 2021 at 11:45 am. Reason: Added commentary

  2. #2
    Sherlock's Avatar
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    Bovada is not in Nevada for years.

    Anyways the US affiliate bear market just started.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
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    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
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  4. #3
    bpmee is offline Public Member
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    Yeah... wonder what the PPC bidding war will be like when Google fully opens up the SERPs. I suspect it will become like the ecommerce price comparison carousel when you're looking to buy new shoes.

  5. #4
    MMM
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    Thought their brands were out of NY long ago.
    The clock is ticking
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  6. #5
    Sherlock's Avatar
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    They were out of NY, then they returned maybe 18 months ago.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  8. #6
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    Btw I love how they added ETH right at the ATH. Also transfer of ETH cost fortune by the time (but at least tha will correct now).

    It is crazy they offer ETH but not BSV yet (not that I want BSV). Speaking about that (and diverting the topic, so sorry for that), rather than on BSV the new gambling/affiliate platform might be developed on some layer2 of blockchains. E.g. https://polygon.technology/ this is quite popular and working L2 for defi (quickswap) and they claim they do something like Ayre wanted to do on BSV. BSV will be overrun.

    Hopefully during next 4 years someone will develop something that can compete in the restricted/regulated/dead markets like NY.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  10. #7
    bpmee is offline Public Member
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    Pardon the question: When you say "gambling/affiliate platform", do you mean using Polygon to tag and track players to affiliates? IOW, an alternative to NetRefer or MyAff?

    Or would ETH be merely for payments?

    A blockchain affiliate tracking system would be ideal. Imagine not having to worry about cookies, shaving, other game playing. The records would be decentralized and available to anyone with the correct key.

  11. #8
    Sherlock's Avatar
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    When I say polygon, I mean the whole ecosystem. From accepting bets to affiliate software to automatic payments to affiliates. BSV is supposedly trying for something like that. At least the spammer from Coingeek at this forum was trying to say that. But from that time I hear nothing. 4 year bullrun is over and BSV/Ayre nothing...

    ETH now at rn is only for payments, just like bitcoin, if I understand it. So it is pointless.

    A blockchain affiliate tracking system would be ideal. Imagine not having to worry about cookies, shaving, other game playing. The records would be decentralized and available to anyone with the correct key.
    Yes.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  13. #9
    johns1124 is offline Private Member
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    Received this today:

    Dear Partner,

    We would like to take this time to remind you that as a partner, our program requires affiliates to send a minimum of 3 new depositing players over a 6 month rolling period. We are reaching out to inform you that, unfortunately, your affiliate account has not met this criteria:

    • Revenue Share Scheme:
      • In the event that an Affiliate delivers fewer than 3 new real money depositors in any 6 month period, Revenue Network may, at its sole discretion, drop that Affiliate’s Revenue Share Commission to 10% until the Affiliate is able to deliver 3 new real money depositors.
    A big FU from Bovada. I have been promoting them for over 15 years. Never thought they would go the BetOnline route.

  14. #10
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    I do not know whether the rule is there for 15 years but for 10 years yes. They clearly had the graphics with the dreadful 10% minicolumn on website when I signed up.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  15. #11
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    Legal sports betting in the US is very profitable and growing. The affiliate market is a bit of a mess because each state has its own requirements and the sportsbooks are spending a lot on advertising. But, there is money to be made. It looks like Bovada & Mybookie may be getting hurt by legal sports betting in the US.

    DraftKings has reported earlier this year that a customer’s lifetime value is $2,500, and that its average customer acquisition cost is $371. Operators hope that influencer partners can keep users engaged, active and loyal over the long term.

    https://frontofficesports.com/bettin...encers-mcafee/

  16. #12
    Sherlock's Avatar
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    Draftkings stole all my players so no ****** wonder it is so profitable for them.

    Overall customer value of Bovada was much higher (yes average). But DK are here much shorter time. I remember how Bovada said the value for them is 1500/2 years and they have no longer horizon, but in the end the players keep playing. So those DK numbers are about right.

    The affiliate market is not "a bit mess". It is a total mess with state to state regulation (extra costs) and with certainty that RS will be stolen, there are no decent money to be made. Or it depends what are the decent money. 10x less money for the same effort as 10 years ago in not decent money for me. It is maybe a very decent income for a corporate office rat, but that is really not my goal. Especially not when I sit on the money made during last years.

    It goes even better, because there is the psychological effect: the less affiliates are paid, the more they need the money just to live. Therefore the jokers are in sleeves of operators who then behave like our bosses, which they defcato then are. And they will very soon figure out that if there are idiots who go with low 3 digit CPA that they will go with double digit cpa + voucher for cheap booze&socks and they will work even harder, because they have to pay the mortgage. This is the Marx theory of Capital and it is amazing how it works.

    On the other side there is a minority of affilites who know where this is going and they want to stand against this. But they are too fragmented and they are being economically killed market by market.

    I am out, this is a shtshow really. We deserve to lose every penny if we did not take our lessons. Power (=money) is not given, it is always taken. If avg. acquisition cost of customer is 371 USD, they will look to pay to affiliates much less. And when they pay much less, they will look how to cut costs. I delivered them thousands of real players, their stats were always rigged and they stole everything so I doubt they paid me 100K. SO they know now, we are total idiots, who deliver players for tens of dollars.

    They just do not have idea yet that we are joyful idiots.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  17. #13
    bpmee is offline Public Member
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    US Legal sports betting has potential...if they can sort out the patchwork regulatory environment and grandfather in former offshore affiliates.

    I've been told outright that affiliates who previously promoted offshore sportsbooks can NOT get revenue share agreements with many states. Specifically New Jersey, Pennsylvania, among others.

    The CPA isn't attractive for small affiliates like me. I've had rev-share players deposit $50 and leave, only to return months later and drop $2,000+. Some will quickly deposit $1,000 and lose it. Then take a year off and deposit another $3,000+. A $250 CPA undercompensates affiliates.

    Licensing costs vary $2,000 - $5,000 per state, higher for Rev Shares. Colorado wants a $10,000 refundable down payment to perform background checks.

    No state guarantees licensing, especially if you've promoted offshores in the past.

    So call it $4K x 10-12 states = $50,000 in application fees, not to mention hours spent filling out paperwork.

    Then you'll need another $50,000 - $100,000 to compete with CBS Sports Line, USA Today, SI.com all of whom are launching portals. Throw in Catena US and Better Collective, multi-million dollar firms, and you've got some work to do. Not to mention merchant sites like Fan Duel with their own campaigns.

    I'd take a crack at it if they'd license former offshores. We know how to get players and our sites are already in good positions. But coughing up $50,000 for a chance to get licensed, only to compete with the giants, seems like urinating into the wind.

    After years in this industry, I'm really disappointed and let down by all of this.

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  19. #14
    Sherlock's Avatar
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    CPA makes no sense to anyone. To small, big, middle. Only to scammers who deliver traffic under the CPA value.

    I would like to hear a voice from one sports affiliate, who has experience in some European regulated market, like in UK/France etc., who is looking forward the USA opening with optimism. I really want to hear arguments from such a person. Otherwise it is all just hopium.

    What I do not understand is how even on market where still exist options people can promote thieves like WH. Or even better Fanduel or Draftkings who already stole everything from affiliates in the USA. Is US a country of lawsuits? Are you betting it will save your ass? Well FD and DK made their 1st round of stealing and all was "good" for them, so when their break-even point analysis tells them they do not need you, you will feel it. From the bright side, you can use then all the documents as nice wallpapers (or instead of cardbox under the bridge).

    We are now co-creating the market. If we can establish in the USA based on crypto, there is at least a small chance that this market will exist and pay us for decades. Otherwise we are feeding the corporate monsters. People are used to use bitcoin and obscure deposit methods. US people are not happy with excessive KYC. Those are strong arguments for the grey/black/illegal market that is the market that produced us money for 2 decades. It can not be clearer than this.

    And if you think that 250 CPA is generous (it is not), it will not last there long. Look at Australia. The gamblers there are per capita bigger than in USA. The CPA deals I saw there, were not even tripple digits. Now the bookies at least compete for the market share, so they pay more than what they will pay in future, when their establish their brands.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  20. #15
    bpmee is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    If we can establish in the USA based on crypto, there is at least a small chance that this market will exist and pay us for decades.
    All for it. Except I worry about legal risk: whether states or the federal government crackdown on affiliates promoting cryptocurrency sportsbooks.

    Already, offshores are removing some states from their accepted geographic areas. The state of New Jersey, alone, was able to threaten and cow Oddsshark (a Gibraltar company) into blocking anyone with a NJ ip address.

    Imagine if similar threats go out to smaller shops based in the USA?

    Would be happy to promote crypto if I had some legal cover, if and when it becomes a thing. Would rather not face civil or criminal penalties.

    To date, prosecutions and legal action against offshore affiliates have been extremely rare. Even offshore sportsbook owners, with a few exceptions, have largely been able to pay fines and escape serious accountability. Will this continue?

  21. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    It is crazy they offer ETH but not BSV yet (not that I want BSV).
    They do offer BSV.

    They have offered BSV for a couple years at least.

    *not to all players

    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    All for it. Except I worry about legal risk: whether states or the federal government crackdown on affiliates promoting cryptocurrency sportsbooks.
    If they do, they will almost certainly send out plenty of warnings first. Look at how the NJ DGE acted for a clue.



    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    Already, offshores are removing some states from their accepted geographic areas. The state of New Jersey, alone, was able to threaten and cow Oddsshark (a Gibraltar company) into blocking anyone with a NJ ip address.
    Well, to be fair, the principles of that company regularly jaunt over into the good old USA, so I would imagine they decided it was +EV to cut NJ/lose a little revenue instead of fear being escorted off their private jet into a jail cell in Las Vegas.



    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    Imagine if similar threats go out to smaller shops based in the USA?
    Many would fold.

    Some who never plan on going to/near the USA would get a big grin because of all the new market share they were about to acquire from less competition.



    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    To date, prosecutions and legal action against offshore affiliates have been extremely rare.

    Can you name one?

    I can not.

  22. #17
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    Ironically, non-USA affiliates have less to worry about than those based in the USA, at least for the near term.

    Equally ironic, the state of New Jersey and others happily handing out licenses to Catena and Better Collective. I'm confident both firms are staffed by people who ran afoul of US law for many years. I wish the US state governments would give their own citizens a little leniency before licensing and sending paychecks to Malta or Denmark, respectively.

    I swear a Florida based affiliate was prosecuted in the early to mid 2000s. Can't remember if he was an email spammer, or if he was mixed up with BOS, or some combination of both.

    Will have to research that. It was on CAP forums or some other site.

    I think Calvin Ayre settled up with the US government recently: paid a fine and charges were reduced substantially. Catch me if you can, and they never really did.

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  24. #18
    tufty is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmee View Post
    Ironically, non-USA affiliates have less to worry about than those based in the USA, at least for the near term.
    I fear google, under influence from US licensed stakeholders and/or law makers, will downgrade affiliates promoting offshore firms over and above those promoting licensed firms. Alternatively, amounting to the same thing, licensed US affiliate sites will get a boost and leapfrog those promoting unregulated firms. I feel the latter is already happening to an extent.

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  26. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tufty View Post
    I fear google, under influence from US licensed stakeholders and/or law makers, will downgrade affiliates promoting offshore firms over and above those promoting licensed firms. Alternatively, amounting to the same thing, licensed US affiliate sites will get a boost and leapfrog those promoting unregulated firms. I feel the latter is already happening to an extent.
    Yes, me too. That is absolutely a strong possibility. Google will think nothing of filtering out "illegal" sites, especially if enough state attorneys general file complaints. After all, Google stands to profit if and when gambling PPC becomes both fully legal and acceptable nationwide.

    Soon US gambling SERPs will look a lot like those in the UK and countries with legalized online gambling.

    Anecdotally, a few "legal" sites seem to be doing better than they should already. This is in part because they were started by former sports writers who left -- or were fired from -- major US media jobs. They use old connections to secure links from authority sites and they naturally get a big bump.

    Google loves authority links, this shouldn't be news to anyone. Eventually, I worry the sport betting food chain will consolidate around major US media, a few corporate affiliates, and some small niche shops that got very lucky. People will stop cooperating with anyone promoting offshores, even if it's just linking to a page with great sports commentary or analysis.

    As Sherlock laments, the "legal" industry could quite possibly become a 9 to 5 job. The barrier to entry for small shops will be too high and not worth the trouble.

    Hopefully this doesn't happen, but just be mindful.

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    Yes, I 100% agree with your analysis. I am resigned to my business slowly dying off, despite US offshore market historically providing most of my income and I have had a good last few years. Dec 4 core update removed most of my traffic. I can see, as you say, the "legal-promoting" sites have taken my positions. Even if I can recover in next month's core update part 2, the writing is on the wall. It'll be a slow death because I have some nice player bases with US offshore sportsbooks. Though how long they will put up with markedly reduced traffic is anyone's guess.

    I am a little too old to have any incentive to swap to the legal sector. I did look at what is on offer with those licensed firms and it is a total rip-off, as Sherlock and others have stated. The only value of that sector, and where their payday could come, is in selling on an established site. I just can't be bothered with the hassle, especially as a healthy crypto portfolio in the back pocket disincentivizes it completely.

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