Brazil’s 'sleeping giant’ gambling market might finally awaken

[The Buzz]

Interesting commentary from CDC Gaming's Aaron Stanley about the potential of Brazil as a gambling market and the possible obstacles it faces.

Apparently, the country is as close as it has ever been to loosening the prohibitions on gambling activities that have been in place since World War II. Last December, a special economic development committee approved a proposal to legalize online and brick-and-mortar casino and bingo games, but getting there by the end of 2016 still seems to be against the odds.

Read more here: http://www.cdcgamingreports.com/comm...get-too-giddy/

[canaryjohn]

This is pretty interesting news. Brazil has a quickly expanding economy and online gaming will likely prove to be really popular over there if this all goes ahead. Certainly a story to keep an eye on.

[Sherlock]

Brazil is not quickly expanding. Brazil is quickly imploding. People have nothing to eat.

I do not believe they will make it legal. There is a huge monopoly Caixa loteria, then unlicenced street loteries (jogo do bicho etc). Brazil has a history how big companies can stop development for decades (e.g. bus companies). Nothing will change in Brazil. I wish it would, but I do not believe that. It is a lazy country, corruption is very deep and there are no strong parties from new casinos that will bribe politicians.

In Brazil there are always big plans and then nothing happens. Close to me is an destroyed resort like 25 years old. Some guy made it because there was a promise to legalize gambling. Nothing happened, the resort was abandoned.

And yes... if they make it legal, then for us it will be just worse. Brazilian bureaucracy is something that can not be described with human language.

[alexcorsa]

Brazil is not quickly expanding. Brazil is quickly imploding. People have nothing to eat.

I do not believe they will make it legal. There is a huge monopoly Caixa loteria, then unlicenced street loteries (jogo do bicho etc). Brazil has a history how big companies can stop development for decades (e.g. bus companies). Nothing will change in Brazil. I wish it would, but I do not believe that. It is a lazy country, corruption is very deep and there are no strong parties from new casinos that will bribe politicians.

In Brazil there are always big plans and then nothing happens. Close to me is an destroyed resort like 25 years old. Some guy made it because there was a promise to legalize gambling. Nothing happened, the resort was abandoned.

And yes... if they make it legal, then for us it will be just worse. Brazilian bureaucracy is something that can not be described with human language.

believe you are with little information about it, yes, people have to eat in Brazil, but there is a part of the population that is experiencing difficulties as in many places in the world then this is not new.
Regarding the legalization I believe if this happens it will be great and will be a big market for casino, bingo and sports
The Brazil was the big online poker champion (scoop) on PokerStars in 2016 showing that the market is large and has people with a lot of money available to spend on games and betting
Believe me, this can be a big market

[universal4]

I admit I have not thoroughly studied the economic situation in Brazil, but I had read that their situation has been deteriorating for some time.

In fact I just saw one report where their unemployment rate rate jumped to over 10% from December to February, wages have fallen 4% and their inflation remains high.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/20/news...ployment-jobs/

This is one indicator that the market could be worth far less than assumptions.

Also with the Zika threat I wonder if the hit on tourism might also damage their economy even more.

Rick
Universal4

[Sherlock]

Zika is complete nonsense. I had it. Nothing more than fewer. Dengue was much worse. I was with my friend in Belo Horizonte, his relative is an owner of maternity hospital. He was just amazed with all the Zika hype. Nothing was proven, yet whole world is panicking about that.

It is a hype on the level of the ***** girl, where whole Brazil/world is now on wave of "protecting the women", saying how Brazil is dangerous in this way. Then there was a tiny message that the girl (16 yrs, already with a child) is junkie that is going to that favela doing it deliberately, but this time someone videotaped her, so she was looking for excuse. Brazil is very dangerous, but not in this way (I guess because nobody has a problem to have sex here).

I admit that the other rumor about poos inside of the Guanabara bay are reality. There are much worse particles there.

believe you are with little information about it

Believe me, as I live here for a decade, I have an infomormation. Somehow I usually do not write things I do not have information about. If it is the case, then I always say that upfront. Brazil is an incredibly inefficient economy. Always rich on resources, has the same problem with mentality as the oil rich states. There already had to be bullet train from SP to Rio. It was not even started when the growt was extreme. There had to be a metro in Niteroi. Streets now, few weeks before Olympics, are totals mess. And everybody is seriously blaming politicians, divided between coxinhas and mortadelas, like in soccer match, while the reason why this complete mess is ahppening are just the people, who do not give a f*** about anything.

[universal4]

Yea I myself would not be too worried about zika either, but the concern is mostly for women wanting to have kids. Whether the concern is valid or not, only much more time and research will prove but the way the media has blown up about it here in the states I am sure it will affect tourism.

I think Sherlock has made some good points and this move may make things more difficult for players.

Rick
Universal4

[Moonlight Cat]

Regarding the legalization I believe if this happens it will be great and will be a big market for casino, bingo and sports

But this is not guaranty, that this big market will be friendly for affiliates. Example, New-Jersey. We all waited legalisation, but in reality NJ online market, this is not free market. This is gambling monopoly for several offline operators. This is too far away from free market. As here, in Russia. No big difference. We legalized online sports betting too. But only for several operators that affiliated with each other. They don't need affiliates and don't have affiliate programs.

[Sherlock]

You bet they will do it in NJ way if they decide. But to do something legally in Brazil is the worst nightmare, where you need years of patience and lot of bribes. There is a term"jetinho brasileiro". Extremely exhausting way to do things. I mean, I am grateful to South America, it is a great way how to learn to survive. But not good for online business.

Every country that regulated online business was either less freindly to affiliates and gambling or they completely f**** it up. In Brazil it would be the second choice.

[alexcorsa]

I agree with you Sherlock, I also live in Brazil and I see many difficulties here mostly in political part but I believe this should change soon.
From the moment that the government can see that many raise taxes through gambling I believe it can be released, there is already talk to such legalization as it was with the poker
We expect that to happen soon which should be good for business and for those who are willing to invest in Brazil in the future

[Sherlock]

There are 200M Brazilians that just pray and believe that it will be better. I do not blame them for being naive. It always worked like that in the past. Crisis came and gone. Brazilians have this genetical memory.

But this time it is different. Brazil is defacto central planed economy. Yes, right wingers supported by USA will come to power, but nothing will change. I wish it would, I still live here even when rather moving to much smaller and progressive LATAM country. But I do not see a way. People are still the same people. Without change of the people, everything (incl. politics regardless of winning party) will stay as it is. I am coming from post-communist bloc. Even after 25+ years the imporatnt things in society in Eastern Europe did not change. Yes, it is economically connected to EU, so it is until now not true disaster. But the Brazilian mentality is flowing into totally incompetitive economy. The mentality is: Nobody here works hard. People stop working during many festas, when there is a rain or soccer game or many other excuses. Nobody has any reserves, nobody thinks about tomorrow or future. Everyone just believes and hopes. That is not enough.

Brazil struggled in the past 100 years and will continue to struggle. It made it through as exporter of resources and agriculture, but the technological revolution outside of Brazil made it to the point, where not so many resources are needed and the same change is in agriculture. Brazil has nothing to offer and even during times when it had, it decided just to spend everything on nonsenses. There is absolute disregard for anything valuable: from time (once I was at gas stating and the young boy said: "I am today somehow tired, I will do it slowly" so my tank was filing like 10 minutes), money (well currency was never stable here, so no wonder) to animal or human life. I believe in god, but the crowds going to crazy churches to give the 1/10 of the salario minimo, are really not progressive.

Brazil is going down and will go much much deeper. Country that was not able to give me papers from my own house for years, because somebody somewhere made a mistake and I had to find a marrige certificate from people who sold the house to the people who sold the house to me, will not make it to normal state of online gambling. Country where I got legally my visa after incredible energy spent with that and when I got for extension, Policia Federal lost my file and told me to start over (and of course after that I was attempted by them to "solve" the problem with bribes), is not able to do anything about gambling or its own economy. The whole economy is a pure joke. Petrobras is just cherry on the top. Any smallest thing has the only solution: the informal one. I am far from middleclass mentality of order, but Brazil is too much.

If someone will start with gambling regulation, then the market can be either written off or we do not have to bother about the regulation, because nobody will give a f***.

[Syndicate]

From my experience people from less affluent countries bet more, because they see it has an opportunity to get out of the ****. However, they are more likely to wager with a local betting shop than online, because in their world - cash is king!!

[Sherlock]

I think until now it had something to do with a fact that in 3rd world countries there is huge social stratification. And the online bettors were the early internet adopters from the higher classes (that are even in 3rd world countries much richer than middle class in top countries). Now, if we penetrate the market of common people, the yields will go down. But the mentality is here as you describe. It is even in the language: "to make money" and "to win money" is the same expression in Brazil. People here got rich because they won it. Unlike in poor North America or Europe, where they had to deserve the money. So to make money here means that you have to be lucky or God has to like you. (There are exceptions ofc, but many people have this kind of thinking.)

[Syndicate]

Sherlock - If Brazil does open and shops/agents are accepted --- get in quick would be my advise to anyone in the country with a bit of knowledge. That's were you make the big bucks, the likes of Tipico are proof- without the high street franchise module they would have been a ''zero'' company!!

Anyone coming from the outside and trying to get a foothold in Brazil will find it difficult, because betting like most business is about understanding local culture. I looked hard into Nigeria and other parts of Africa, but it's difficult without living there - And, while that idea wouldn't bother me, the wife and the daughter wouldn't fancy it.

[Sherlock]

That was my original idea going here. To seal a hole in the market. Then I realized that whole Brazil is one big hole that swallows everything.

The situation that you describe is for me something unrealistic, like what would happen if there would be alien invasion. Brazil will never really open. If they do, it will be just another kickback scheme. Sadly I can see only this eventuality.

I had one small company (pizzaria), the paperwork with that was so crazy, that I can not imagine what would be necessary to do for such a business. I am also curious about future. I said here my opinion, I honestly hope I am wrong. Right now I am reconstructing roof of my house. I can not describe how difficult is to do such a simple thing here. I would rather commit suicide that to do a business I am dependant upon in Brazil.

Tipico scenario - I do not believe in that. The recent monopoly is ultra strong. Nobody here wants a competition. Competition is only for small businesses. Maybe one or 2 conglomerate funded shops will appear, but there will be nothing for affiliates. Brazilian economy is in deadlock. I think there will be much more destruction, before they start down from the scratch.

Yes, I have some brazilian related domains. Yes there are many gambling specifics. The black street lotteries are incredibly popular (I think I read over 1% of GDP). It is run by mafia and corrupted policemen ofc. I can imagine this business in mobile phones can be huge. But honestly,it will be run by the same mafia. Well I believe the mafia can make better affiliate program than the official structures.

[Syndicate]

My next door (Norwegian) neighbour made a large part of his fortune in Brazil (bought is Villa here). He was telling me (2 years back) that Brazil had the fifth biggest economy in the world, and that's with a 60% black market. I could give you 500 guesses in what he made his money and you wouldn't guess - Bikini's !!

I've offered to check some of his models out for him (check he's getting it right), but he never took me up on the offer!!

[Sherlock]

I know some Norweigians here, they work on oil platforms. The important word here is "made" not "is making" I assume.

I have a friend from high class family, who was selling cars all his life. Selling 1 or 2 per day. Then few years ago it stopped. So he went to Rioa nd bought a restaurant that was making money. It was shortly before WC, everything was fine, but then gvmnt chased away some bandits from favela and they started to occupy the quarter. People got scraed. The huge restaurant was empty just swallowing money. He sold all his cars and assets and was broke. So he started to work in car repair shop. The car repair shop now is closed as well. He has many dogs, child, wife. Zero reserves, zero future. All he does is coming to my house - because I have internet connection - watching politics.

That is the Brazil nowadays. Many people are in this situation. Not long ago I came to gas station in Rio, where robbers with guns were just flying away. Nobody even called police.

[sweetbet]

From my experience people from less affluent countries bet more, because they see it has an opportunity to get out of the ****. However, they are more likely to wager with a local betting shop than online, because in their world - cash is king!!

I see that too, but sadly the vast majority of them end up sinking in even more debt.

[alexcorsa]

I definitely still do not understand how Sherlock still manages to live in a country that he can complain and do so many critical ... lol
It is just a comment, no offense but you should live elsewhere it was far from Brazil ... sorry

[Miles_FTA]

I have to agree with Sherlock here .. Zika , Corruption , Riots .. I wouldn't invest too much time Just eyt in Brazil