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  1. #1
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Default The Casino Club / Affiliate Club refused to pay out

    "Julian left the company"

    The Affiliate Club is earning most money in Germany and 90% with the Casino Club.
    My family never made advertising for these guys only one day.
    And there is a reason for it.

    The Casino Club / Affiliate Club refused until today to pay out a German player regular winnings of €167.483
    (~ $227.000), that the player has won with a Royal Flush at €5 Jackpot Poker.









    (Look at "Recent Jackpot Hits" in the middle bottom)

    This is another example that an affiliate program is only as trustfully in the long run as the casino that will be represented and that morality in the industry is not self-evident.

    The Casino Club is sending mail letters, illegal under German law, with promotions and a magazin in Germany using highly conspiratorial methods like non-official cars (snow-white without any print) driving to your letterbox when it's evening or dark.

    The sender adress of these letters is a mail drop (http://www.klicktel.de/branchenbuch/...boxes-etc.html) from mailboxes etc. The author with the pseudonym "Marc West" ist a fake. I know his real identity. He played togehter in German casinos with the former owner and founder of Casino Club, who later sold the Casino Club for €107.000.000 (~ $145.000.000) at Gaming VC.

    Some years ago i was informed, that the stats at Affiliate Club will be updated once a day. I don't know if this changed, but any stats, that will not be updated within latest every 3 hours, are an open door for shaving. There is no reason to deny updating stats within every 3 hours.

    And now?
    Now Affiliate Club is back to the days they refused a regular player his ~ $227.000 winnings. The reason they refused to pay out was this term:

    II. Terms of Use
    [...]
    12. The Company reserves the right to immediately close the account of any User who uses unauthorized programs such as “bots”
    Source: en.casinoclub.com/terms-and-conditions.aspx

    But it was a lie. The player was able to prove that he played with his own hands.
    And do you know, what happened then?

    He was right, but he received not a single cent, because this case is under the civil law of malta, and there exist a loophole. They can't be forced to pay out regular winnings!

    Article 1713 Malta Civil Code

    (1) The law grants no action for a gaming debt, or for the payment of a bet.
    (2) Nor does it grant any action -
    (a) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person who
    knew that such sum was intended for gaming;
    (b) for the recovery of any sum lent by any person
    interested in the game, for the payment of money lost
    at such game.


    Do you see, what's going on?

    Never play or work with a Casino with a Malta license if they are not 100000% clean!

    They can't be forced to pay out regular winnings!

    Leopold

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  3. #2
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwMagazin View Post
    Fine, just don't spam every thread.
    Every thread?
    Every?
    Then give me the links of "every" thread please.

    People, who describes truths as spam because they don't want to hear the truth, are an open book.
    For the owner of the Sportwetten Magazin not a very professional acting.
    But this is not my problem.

    Webmasters, who don't care about the players, i can't show respect. This is my opinion and i am very satisfied with it.

    I want to see how you would feel if somebody of YOUR family received unwanted phone calls from the Casino Club at High Noon and the guy on the phone is asking, why, i repeat WHY no more deposits are coming and WHY he stopped playing. On the phone! This happened many times!

    In some families it must be a secret, that a member is gambling, e.g. the wife don't know what her husband is doing because she don't like casinos. Nobody can tell me, that this situation is rare. What, if the wrong person pick up the phone? The brother, the father, the brother-in-law or the wife?

    And do the Casino Club care about the families? Do they think twice before calling? Calling in this way can destroy families. If you like this, don't care about your players, do what you want, write what you want, dismiss this inconvenient truths as "spam".

    I am not impressed, but of course, this is another picture of the so named morality of the industry.

    Oh, and please don't twist my words. I have not written a single word against Julian in this thread. Quote me if you can from my both prior posts here.

    The quote from you, that he left the company was only the trigger for me that things are changing. And i am right because after he left you are writing here in this forum about Affiliate Club.

    Now you are upset, because your commission is reduced. That's not my fault.

    "Dude, dont f.... Spam every topic"
    "don't spam every thread"


    After 794 posts i have written in this forum and many efforts to publish at least a little piece of truths, do you really believe, this kind of "argument" against facts and truths is foreign to me?

    An affiliate program is as good as the casinos they are representing. There is no way around it. Otherwise the whole industry is a madhouse where all players and webmasters are outlawed.

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 25 November 2013 at 10:12 am.

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  5. #3
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Dear reader,

    do you want to see the proof with your own eyes, that playing in an online casino with a gaming license in Malta is dangerous?
    You don't believe, that it's possible to declare players to be outlaws?
    Did you heard before, that an online casino with a gaming license in Malta can't forced to pay out winnings?
    No?
    Yes, it's true. The Wild West still exist, and here is the proof:



    You can find the wording of the law on page 351 - Document from the Parliamentary Secretariat for Justice in the Office of the Prime Minister (http://www.justiceservices.gov.mt/Do...temid=8580&l=1)
    The online gambling industry ... what a a beautiful, honest and clean world.

    Leopold

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    Dear reader,

    do you want to see the proof with your own eyes, that playing in an online casino with a gaming license in Malta is dangerous?
    You don't believe, that it's possible to declare players to be outlaws?
    Did you heard before, that an online casino with a gaming license in Malta can't forced to pay out winnings?
    No?
    Yes, it's true. The Wild West still exist, and here is the proof:



    You can find the wording of the law on page 351 - Document from the Parliamentary Secretariat for Justice in the Office of the Prime Minister (http://www.justiceservices.gov.mt/Do...temid=8580&l=1)
    The online gambling industry ... what a a beautiful, honest and clean world.

    Leopold

    i think u are a bit confused

    it says you are in no need to pay if you lend money for gambling

    which i think by depositing is not the case

    anyhow, i dont have any business with CC .. they also shrinked my %

    but i dont think he is not able to sue them for the money .. seems more for me he is just lazy, he can find a lot of lawyers for 10% of the sum as payment if they win, in Malta.

    anyhow, with julian and without him the company or the workers have no real clue so i just wonder why every german affiliate is taken them up to their website on top position

  8. #5
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    "i think u are a bit confused"

    No.

    "it says you are in no need to pay if you lend money for gambling"

    Yes. it's written in 1713 (2). But the issue of the player was denied because of 1713 (1). A big difference! These are historical facts, and one statement of the scammed player speaks books:

    I had the hope that a complaint at the LGA in Malta could help (filed in December 200 8, but it did not. Unfortunately, I have never received an official answer by LGA. After more than a year (which means in 2010) I received an answer verbally. In March 2009 the LGA had begun to work on my complaint and requested Gaming VC to comment on the issue. The answer of Gaming VC respectively their lawyers is the following one:

    „Due to a legal loophole they are not obliged to pay out winnings, the matter is resolved, therefore. “

    There were no further references to the alleged accusations and evidence against my person. Instead, there was only the reference to the legal loophole.
    There is no doubt the money is in the pockets of Casino Club.
    "why every german affiliate is taken them up to their website on top position"

    Not everyone. These times are over. One reason is the Paypal honeypot, and many players will come to regret this in the future, when the German government will stop this and maybe forces German Ebay to act because of the Paypal terms (Forbidden acitivities - Point 6). Ebay want to install a new payment system to force (!) people using Paypal in Germany, but for this the daughter Paypal.............

    The last two weeks and some more days Affiliate Club is sending out tons of spam. The alias "Marc West" disappeared. The spam is not coming from an affiliate. It's coming directly from Affiliate Club, from the new "Casino Manager". Latest every 4 days Casino Bellevue spam is going around, the next playground of them.

  9. #6
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    Default

    mate .. if he is entitled to get the money there is no way CC can say it is not

    there is more to this story ... otherwise he can sue them, for an amount of 160k euro you will find a lot lawyers to start the case without paying a cent

    even this is 5 years ago

    complaining to the LGA was always a joke he might have a better chance now !! anyhow .. lawyer is needed

  10. #7
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    "this is 5 years ago"

    ... and now the circle is complete.

    And not only this one.

    Leopold

  11. #8
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Some months ago Affiliate Club started the biggest spam campaign ever.
    Casino Bellevue spam at least 2 times every week.
    Directly from the company, not from any webmaster!

    Because Casino Club have big problems?!

    More and more German players left the casino.

    You didn't know?
    Yes, Casino Club was haunted.
    Some were laughing, others were crying ... about "Ghost players".

    You have to know, that you can see the (money) account balance of all other players, playing at the same table.

    Spooky, if ... 232.534 Euro ... no bets ... 1 minute later ... 14.747 Euro ..................................

    Spooky, if you see ghosts double without being drunken.


    And now?

    After so many years ... from German premium casino ... with "La Partage" (!) rule at single zero roulette ... to a squalid circus ...

    A change that would be unthinkable until today ...

    Every real casino in Germany has a roulette table minmum of 2 Euro, only in Bavaria at some tables, 1 Euro. The lowest minimum at airball machines is 0,50 Cent.

    12 years ... Casino Club ... the same roulette minimum of 1 Euro ...

    Because they wanted to be a true alternative for the real casinos in Germany all the time ...

    And now, since January 2014 the Casino Club reduced the table minimum from 1 Euro to 0,10 Euro!



    1st time in history!
    By German (real) casino standards very poor.

    Leopold

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    just for your info:

    Announcement: CasinoClub Poker Is Closing

    We are sorry to inform you, but as of 31 May, CasinoClub Poker will be closing its doors. You are, however, more than welcome to continue playing with us right up until the final day. We will have plenty of great winning opportunities available until then, and of course, you will be able to withdraw your money when the time comes.

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  14. #10
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    New (under German law) illegal letters from Casino Club (GVC Corp. Ltd.), (send out from Germany!), flooding the letter boxes nationwide.

    Sender:

    Widdersdorfer Str. 252
    50933 Köln
    Germany

    Mailbox Service!

    Here you can see where Casino Club "resides":


    Leopold

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    Hahahahahaha,

    very nice place for an office, they don't have to leave it whole day

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  18. #12
    CarmelS is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Hi Leopold

    I think (I may be mistaken), that this provision in our Civil Code is more intended to address the problem of illegal "black-market" gambling in Malta, rather than allow casinos to get away with not paying honestly acquired winnings in Casinos. In fact Article number 1717 then reads:

    1717. Any person who has made any payment in Malta in connection with a lottery set up in Malta or in other countries, may recover the sum paid by him from the person to whom the payment was made, although the latter was only an agent of some other person; unless the lottery was authorised or permitted by the competent authority in Malta.

    So, the way I see it, if the casino is licensed here, and therefore the "the lottery was authorised or permitted by the competent authority in Malta", the provisions of Title XII do not apply.

    However, to be 100% sure, we are lucky that my wife actually works at the Justice Unit in the Maltese OPM, so on Wednesday, when I get back from Austria (where I'll be starting my new job), I'll get in touch with her boss there to seek clarification on this matter, and will let you know what I get back from them. If it turns out to be as you are interpreting it, then it is nothing but a bloody joke.....allowing rogue casinos to scam players however they want to

    C


    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    Dear reader,

    do you want to see the proof with your own eyes, that playing in an online casino with a gaming license in Malta is dangerous?
    You don't believe, that it's possible to declare players to be outlaws?
    Did you heard before, that an online casino with a gaming license in Malta can't forced to pay out winnings?
    No?
    Yes, it's true. The Wild West still exist, and here is the proof:



    You can find the wording of the law on page 351 - Document from the Parliamentary Secretariat for Justice in the Office of the Prime Minister (http://www.justiceservices.gov.mt/Do...temid=8580&l=1)
    The online gambling industry ... what a a beautiful, honest and clean world.

    Leopold

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    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Hello Carmel,

    Quote Originally Posted by CarmelS View Post
    I'll get in touch with her boss there to seek clarification on this matter, and will let you know what I get back from them.
    this will be very nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carmel
    If it turns out to be as you are interpreting it, then it is nothing but a bloody joke.....allowing rogue casinos to scam players however they want to
    At the beginning of this case Casino Club tried to refuse the payout with their "bot-term" pitfall:

    2. Term of Use
    [...]
    2.13 The Company reserves the right to immediately close the account of any User who uses unauthorised programs such as “bots”
    Source: en.casinoclub.com/terms-and-conditions.aspx

    This term was installed by the former criminal management and is alive until today!

    The player was able to proof that he didn't used a bot, that this was only nonsense.

    After (!) it Casino Club played the Malta Law Joker. The interpretation came from Casino Club and LGA!

    Here some words from the player's lawyer, who sent an e mail to the legal department of the LGA on May 2010:

    Dear Dr. XXX

    the matter in caption refers, within which I am addressing your Authority in my capacity as Lawyer.

    Contrary to the lawyers of Messrs. Gaming VC my client does not detect any “loophole” in Maltese law.
    My client is prepared to appoint me for reporting to the police and to initiate a lawsuit against Messrs. Gaming VC.

    After due examination of the law we have come to the conclusion that according to the last half-sentence of Art. 1717 civil code, too, Art.˛ 1713 ff. civil code do not apply for credits on player accounts with operators licensed by your Authority
    Based on my last informations after complaining to the Maltese Lotteries and Gaming Authority (LGA), the German player was told his case could not proceed as Maltese law claims that gambling debts are not enforceable.

    And why crooks can live so free and easy in this industry?

    Because online gambling in online casinos without a real (!) GERMAN license is illegal for the German people under criminal law.

    Moreover: If a German register at a online casino and makes a deposit, the contract between him and the casino is agreement contra bonos mores and void under civil law. That means, that he can't sue an online casino in Germany. The (for the player expensive) place of jurisdiction is outside of Germany. He can't sue for the winnings, not even for his deposit money.

    The only online casino in history I know, that refused winnings with the argument of a Malta law loophole, is the Casino Club, and if you know the whole story about how the Casino Club was founded and by whom, (maybe I will tell it another day), then you will shake your hands.

    I can tell you unbelievable stories! One example? The former owner of Casino Club played in a German casino with his buddy to break the bank and informed like King Louie the press before the start.
    After 2 or 3 days only (I can't remember exactly) the roulette system failed, and at once he was "ill" and both jokes departed well ahead of time.

    Leopold

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    CarmelS is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Here is the reply I got this morning from the Head of the Justice Unit, about this:

    The articles you quote are in the Civil Code - that is, what is considered at law as lex generalis (the general law) and it mainly refers to personal bets like what happens during the world cup, etc (which strictly speaking should be considered illegal). Casino games, on the other hand are regulated by the lex specialis – the particular law – in this case the Lotteries and other Games Act and the Gaming Act.

    The Lotteries and other Games Act can be found at http://www.justiceservices.gov.mt/Do...temid=8904&l=1 whilst the Gaming Act can be found at http://www.justiceservices.gov.mt/Do...temid=8867&l=1

    Online Casinos are also seperately covered by the Remote Gaming Regulations of 2004 found at http://www.mrgc.org.mt/downloads/Rem...0176of2004.pdf

    I've skimmed through them quickly as they are too much to read on a Sunday morning, but what I found that is most relevant here is Article 34 of the Gaming Act which reads:

    34. (1) Article 1716 of the Civil Code shall not apply with respect to a game lawfully played in a licensed casino.
    (2) The provisions of article 1713 of the Civil Code shall not prejudice the right of the casino licensee to recover a debt arising from the acceptance of a cheque in accordance with article 35 and which is subsequently not honoured.

    This automatically voids the use of the Civil Code to avoid paying winnings, however, one would obviously have to read through the 3 documents to see if there is any way that casinos can actually get away with not paying players' winnings.

    What I'm sure is that the excuse of "in Malta gambling debts are not enforceable" is a joke and put the rest of the other law-abiding Casinos registered here in a bad light when used by Casino Attorneys to cheat their customers!

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    Thank you very much Carmel for all your efforts. You have widened my circle of embracing neurons in a most interesting way.

    Leopold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roulette Zeitung View Post
    I can tell you unbelievable stories!
    One story is the casino bot & ghost player hoax: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/leopolds-...tml#post763622

    Leopold

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    I cant understand why all the threads i read of yours is always negative, people will run from the forums please post something nice, and leave this minor issues go by, after all we dont want the audience to feel awkward, you might even hurt my feelings Leopold...
    Casino Bonus - O melhor guia de bónus de casino online em Portuguęs!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriatu
    I cant understand why all the threads i read of yours is always negative, people will run from the forums please post something nice, and leave this minor issues go by, after all we dont want the audience to feel awkward, you might even hurt my feelings Leopold...
    Dear reader,

    first of all: The audience should know, that this is only a revenge thread of Viriatu, because he tried to mess with me in the Affiliate Guard Dog forum with intelligent arguments like "I dont care about the audience feelings" or "go f*** y*******" and failed (no wonder with "arguments" like that). The thread is locked, and this is not in his sense.

    It's public, and you can read the whole story here, because it have a lot to do with generalizing (!) employees in the industry and decency: http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/com...85/#post-51421

    ----

    Quote Originally Posted by Viriatu View Post
    all the threads i read of yours is always negative


    Really?

    I do not know where to start.

    Here is a small selection of my most terrible highlights from hundreds of posts and -as you said- "all" written "always negative"!

    Random order and only a small selection!

    Star Games: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/act-model...tml#post739616

    Europartners: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/enjoy-you...er-214657.html

    Interpartners: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/new-membe...tml#post743051

    Harbour Gaming: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/welcome-l...tml#post757247

    Carmel Said: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/welcome-c...tml#post754247

    Dublin Bet: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/view-casi...tml#post740678

    All lovely representatives who are current on the monthly list: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/recogniti...tml#post763553

    Example from Affiliate Guard Dog: http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/com...industry.7594/

    and for this one ...

    Long Harbour Casino: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/we-do-not...er-217826.html

    ... the story will continue in a final one-minute-trailer because of the change from "Long Harbour Affiliates" to "Harbour Gaming" fleet.

    -----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Viriatu View Post
    all the threads i read of yours is always negative
    And now Mr. Viriatu ... ?

    "Arguments" like "go f*** y*******" again?


    Leopold
    (I made of copy of this post as a backup for my diary if necessary)

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    The Affiliate Club is earning most money in Germany and 90% with the Casino Club.
    Where do you get the figures that they make most of their money in Germany?

    Rick
    Universal4

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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Where do you get the figures that they make most of their money in Germany?
    Because it was founded by one of the most famous guy in German roulette scene, J. W-A-G-E-N-T-R-O-T-Z and targeted nearly 100% to German speaking people.

    They sent out glossy magazines in Germany, have their conspiratorial logistic in Germany, breaking every day the German law, but what should they do?

    Without the German players the casino is dead. They have still some high rollers because of the "La Partage" rule. The only real big competitor for Germany, Dublin Bet, don't have these good Zero conditions.

    The few non German speaking players are still the minority. Without the safe payments with Boss Media from Sweden the last train has long departed.

    It's not a surprise, that they have cancelled their GPWA sponsorship.

    Refusing payouts.
    Bots.
    Ghostplayer.
    Hired claqueurs for forums.
    New terms: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/affiliate...gs-215013.html
    And a global warning from AGD: http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/com...iate-club.127/

    Mr. Wagen... is a rich man because he sold his one-man-show Casino Club for € 107.000.000!

    During his time as the leader of the casino the tables were full and hundreds (!) of players -nearly all German speaking- were online every minute (!).

    And today?

    Everyone is free to join the casino (without real money) to look at the tables, what is going on and who is playing. The chat function is a good help.

    Don't forget: Most real casino in Germany are going down. The Casino Club missed a big chance in the last 5 years.

    Now other programs with international target groups have more and more German guests.

    Leopold
    Last edited by Roulette Zeitung; 13 August 2014 at 4:10 pm.

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