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  1. #1
    Muppet is offline Private Member
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    Exclamation CasinoListings issues Betsoft Gaming warning

    This has been a long time coming but I believe that we have reached the point where it is fair to issue a warning against playing (or promoting) any games published by Betsoft Gaming.

    Warning: avoid all Betsoft slots and casino games

    If you want the TLDR version with our reasoning:

    1. Documented discrepancies in their progressive jackpot payouts between the same game on different casinos, and even the same game with different coin sizes. Basically some jackpots appear to be impossible to win as they have not been won while we have monitored them over a period of 9 months, even though they may be won several times a week at another casino.
    2. A player in the past week has been stiffed of a million coin progressive jackpot win at a bitcoin site called Betcoin.ag (worth about $340,000 at the moment). He hit 5 yachts in a line on The Glam Life slot and although the excuse has changed a few times, they are now saying that the win doesn't count because he hit it during a free spins round (triggered in game, not a bonus). This is not documented in the game or its paytable anywhere and neither the casino or Betsoft has shown proof to support this claim.
    3. The revoking of their Alderney license in 2014.
    4. Their RNG audit is worthless because it was only tested in isolation and has a specific disclaimer that says that they did not test the results from any games that actually use the RNG. These "bugs" could be occurring even wth a statistically valid RNG, either through malicious or incompetent programming in the game logic that uses the RNG.
    5. Back in 2010 they were busted running a non-random keno game at Absolute Poker that gave players no chance of winning at all.

    It is clear that at the very least, Betsoft's development, testing, and QA processes are inadequate. Their Curacao license is worthless because the regulator is not ensuring that any standards of fairness and professionalism are being met.

    We recommend that players avoid all Betsoft slots, and that all casinos running these games should withdraw them immediately until such time as Betsoft can demonstrate that they have fixed the issues and processes that have lead to this situation, and of course until such time as the Betcoin player is paid the jackpot that he won.
    Last edited by Muppet; 24 June 2016 at 4:15 am.

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  3. #2
    jasonort is offline New Member
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    I am the player in question who was stiffed for the jackpot. Details of my complaint can be found here:

    I am unable to post links apparently being a newbie, but search bitcointalk.org forum for betcoin.ag unpaid jackpot and you will find it.


    Screenshots of my unpaid jackpot winning spin can be found here:

    Again I am unable to post the link, but I have the imgur link in the referenced post above at bitcointalk.org

    I have attempted to contact BetSoft with no response. They did quietly update their pay table for "The Glam Life" yesterday to exempt free spins from winning the jackpot. This language was not in the pay table at the time of my spin as evidenced buy screenshots shown at the link above.

    I have filed complaints with Curacao eGaming commission as well as with the Malta gaming authority where BetSoft is licensed through their exclusive provider Digital Software Limited with a class 4 Lic. No. MGA/CL4/752/2011. I would appreciate any feedback on how I can pursue this with BetSoft, or through legal channels in Malta to get them to pay up. Thank you for any help you can lend.

    Jason
    Last edited by jasonort; 26 June 2016 at 10:31 pm.

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  5. #3
    Muppet is offline Private Member
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    Thanks Jason, I have attached the relevant images here for you.

    This is the jackpot win:
    Name:  glam-life-no-jackpot-betcoin.jpg
Views: 914
Size:  353.0 KB

    This is the paytable at the time of the jackpot win:
    Name:  glam-life-1.jpg
Views: 826
Size:  210.9 KB

    This is the new, badly worded, paytable now (any "other feature" than what?):
    Name:  glam-life-new-paytable.jpg
Views: 842
Size:  140.2 KB

    Betsoft should be paying up, either voluntarily or by force of regulation. If someone within Betsoft made a mistake that is their fault and should be dealt with internally.

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  7. #4
    jasonort is offline New Member
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    For full image set see:

    imgur.com/a/hx7Ht

  8. #5
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    As far as I know it is possible to switch the jackpot off. Betsoft provided for example a Mr. Vegas with progressive jackpot and a Mr. Vegas without a progressive jackpot.

  9. #6
    jasonort is offline New Member
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    If you look at my image set the jackpot was listed at over 1,000,000 credits. If the jackpot was switched off it should not list the progressive jackpot, but instead a smaller amount that would be a jackpot, but not the progressive. My spin was done with the progressive jackpot total listed.

  10. #7
    Triple7 is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonort View Post
    If you look at my image set the jackpot was listed at over 1,000,000 credits. If the jackpot was switched off it should not list the progressive jackpot, but instead a smaller amount that would be a jackpot, but not the progressive. My spin was done with the progressive jackpot total listed.
    True, I was writing about the Betsoft-article in general, not about your jackpot. Your jackpot is a clear case and they should pay 1.000.000 + credits. No doubt about that.

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  12. #8
    Muppet is offline Private Member
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    An email sent by Bovada to all their customers in the past 48 hours:

    Please note that we are performing a game library update today.

    We'd like to apologize for any inconvenience this may cause as we recognize that a number of these games featured progressive jackpots that were very popular with our players. We are exploring options now to replace those jackpot games, please stay tuned for more details later this week.

    Moving forward, the following games will no longer be available:


    2 Million BC
    A Night in Paris
    After Night Falls
    Arrival
    At The Movies
    Aztec Treasures
    Back in Time
    Barbary Coast
    Black Gold
    Boomanji
    Common Draw Roulette
    Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde
    Enchanted
    Event Horizon
    Fruit Zen
    Genie's Fortune
    Gladiator
    Gold Diggers
    Gypsy Rose
    Heist
    House of Fun
    It Came From Venus
    Lost
    Lucky 7
    Mad Scientist
    Madder Scientist
    Mamma Mia
    More Gold Diggin'
    Ned and his Friends
    Once Upon A Time
    Paco and the Popping Peppers
    Pinocchio
    Puppy Love Plus
    RockStar
    Rook's Revenge
    Royal Reels
    Safari Sam
    Seventh Heaven
    Skratcherz
    SlotFather
    SugarPop
    Sushi Bar
    The Curious Machine
    The Exterminator
    The True Sheriff
    True Illusions
    Under the Bed
    Under the Sea
    Viking Age
    Virtual RaceBook
    Weekend in Vegas
    Who Spun it?



    Sincerely,


    Bovada Customer Service
    So although they have never really responded to us on this, it appears that Bovada agrees with our assessment of Betsoft's games. Kudos to Bovada, hopefully others will follow suit. We are waiting to see what happens with the jackpot funds and whether Bovada transfers them to other games.

    As far as I am aware, Jason still has not been paid the jackpot that he won by either the casino (Betcoin.ag) or Betsoft.

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  14. #9
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    Slotsmillion removed BetSoft Jackpot Games from their Platform today.
    Mobile Gambling Affiliate since 2011: Poker Apps (since 2011) - Sportwetten Apps (since 2013) - Online Casino Apps (since 2014)- Slots.Express (since 2015)

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  16. #10
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    Good news, but I question why they wouldn't remove all their games.

    In related news, jasonort (the player who won the jackpot above) has been paid off to stop complaining and seemingly coerced into issuing a statement telling everyone how wonderfully he was treated by Betsoft and the casino. He has not been paid the jackpot money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    Good news, but I question why they wouldn't remove all their games.

    In related news, jasonort (the player who won the jackpot above) has been paid off to stop complaining and seemingly coerced into issuing a statement telling everyone how wonderfully he was treated by Betsoft and the casino. He has not been paid the jackpot money.
    wow that self-congratulatory statement from betcoin was disugusting to read. They steal from a player and force them in to taking a small payoff while patting themselves on the back for all their hard work. Scum.

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    Clearly a software/wording issue with Betsoft, not the casino, and their re-wording doesn't even make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scampi View Post
    Clearly a software/wording issue with Betsoft, not the casino, and their re-wording doesn't even make sense.
    To me it's still the question. Casinos perhaps had the opportunity to "switch" the jackpot off and if not, at least they had to see that jackpots are not won at all.

    Their pathetic statement shows they got something to hide too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    Good news, but I question why they wouldn't remove all their games.

    In related news, jasonort (the player who won the jackpot above) has been paid off to stop complaining and seemingly coerced into issuing a statement telling everyone how wonderfully he was treated by Betsoft and the casino. He has not been paid the jackpot money.
    Incredible! I just saw the article, happy for the player. I hope BetSoft will arrange it quickly.

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    Does anyone know if all their games are rigged or just the jackpots?

    I asked as when I was working for casinos, a few years back (2013-2014), we saw a fair amount of big winners on betsoft games, so clearly they paid out back then.

    But I suppose they must have lost their alderney license when I jumped over to being an affiliate? Is there a statement as to why this happened?
    Last edited by Marit VS; 13 July 2016 at 10:18 am.
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    Never mind, I actually took the time to read the orginal casinolistings article, and not just the big winner being paid off, and the evidence is very damming indeed.

    I wasn't pushing Betsoft gaming particularly, as they can't be played in the UK, but now will avoid them like the plague!
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    Quote Originally Posted by celena View Post
    Incredible! I just saw the article, happy for the player. I hope BetSoft will arrange it quickly.
    I think you misunderstood. He was not paid the full amount. He has been well and truly ripped off and placed in the situation where he can presumably have some small payment to shut up and stop complaining, or nothing at all. It is disgusting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marit VS View Post
    Does anyone know if all their games are rigged or just the jackpots?

    I asked as when I was working for casinos, a few years back (2013-2014), we saw a fair amount of big winners on betsoft games, so clearly they paid out back then.

    But I suppose they must have lost their alderney license when I jumped over to being an affiliate? Is there a statement as to why this happened?
    We can't know for sure whether the games are rigged or it is just incompetent programming and QA processes. Either way is not good for Betsoft. The fact that no-one independently audits their games is a huge red flag. Those certificates that Betsoft (and many other developers to be fair) publish that show they have had their RNG tested in isolation are worse than worthless. I say worse because they give people a false sense of security that the games are fair, when the reality is that the games can easily be rigged even when using a valid RNG.

    There was never a reason given publicly for the Alderney license disqualification as Betsoft voluntarily rescinded the license before the hearing date. Selling their games to casinos that accept Americans and unlicensed Bitcoin casinos probably had something to do with it, but we'll probably never know the whole story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muppet View Post
    I think you misunderstood. He was not paid the full amount. He has been well and truly ripped off and placed in the situation where he can presumably have some small payment to shut up and stop complaining, or nothing at all. It is disgusting.
    Sorry Muppet for my mistake, sometimes with English, I do not translate well; (

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