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  1. #21
    CarbonAtil is offline Public Member
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    Universal4, can you please PM me your ChipSplit username? I will look into what happened and provide you with as much information as possible.

    Thanks.

  2. #22
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    Atil,

    Could you answer any of my questions about the terms and what affiliates can expect from your group concerning what kinds of quotas are being placed on working with you, even though it is NOT sepcified in your terms of service?

    Rick
    Universal4

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    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Atil,

    Could you answer any of my questions about the terms and what affiliates can expect from your group concerning what kinds of quotas are being placed on working with you, even though it is NOT sepcified in your terms of service?
    [...] Chipsplit, and their awesome affiliate manager Atil Singh [...] On top of that, their affiliate department is excellent. Atil is one of the best affiliate managers around, and he’s surrounded himself with some phenomenal staff.
    Sprechen heißt urteilen. Schweigen heißt geurteilt haben.“ (German quote from Hans Lohberger (1920 – 1979))

    In English: "Talk is judging. Silence is to have judged."

    Leopold
    (Not amused)

  4. #24
    CarbonAtil is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Atil,

    Could you answer any of my questions about the terms and what affiliates can expect from your group concerning what kinds of quotas are being placed on working with you, even though it is NOT sepcified in your terms of service?

    Rick
    Universal4
    Everything is listed in our Terms and Conditions that can be found on our home page. Please see VI. TERM AND TERMINATION. This isn't a new term and we've had it in place for a very long time now. Everything should be clear once you read this section.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    Thanks.

  5. #25
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    It does seem to spell it out in that link provided ... 6.3.c


    • 6.3 Termination By Us. We may terminate this Agreement, with or without cause, upon five (5) days written notice to you. Further, we may terminate this Agreement immediately, without notice, in the following events:
      • a. You materially breach this Agreement and do not cure within fifteen (15) days of notice to cure;
      • b. We determine, in our reasonable discretion, that you knowingly benefited from Fraud Traffic as set forth in Section 2.8 herein; and
      • c. The total number of new Players introduced by you in a sixty (60) day period is less than 1

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  7. #26
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    Yep that's my bad - when I had read through the T&C I completely missed that. And just to confirm what Atil said - that term has been in there forever, ever since the launch of Chipsplit I believe, looking at old copies of the T&C I have.
    Graeme aka Dealer Dan
    Gambling Affiliate Bible

  8. #27
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    It does seem to spell it out in that link provided ... 6.3.c
    "Further, we may terminate this Agreement immediately, without notice, in the following events: [...] The total number of new Players introduced by you in a sixty (60) day period is less than 1."
    "sixty (60) day period"

    That is inappropriately in highest degree. One should be ashamed.

    Leopold

  9. #28
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Worth noting is that US players often have difficulty depositing from time to time - which means that an affiliate could be sending traffic with both the webmaster and the potential customer having the best of intentions. They just hit a brick wall when signing up and attempting to fund the account.

    With that in mind, my take is that there should be absolutely no closing of accounts due to lack of new players. I think if I were Chipsplit, I'd remove that clause, reinstate everyone's accounts who have been shut down due to said clause and offer an apology.
    #my2cents

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  11. #29
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    Thanks Gooner,

    According to the termination clause which TheGooner posted above, since I am screwed yet again by a quota clause, and since I have never been notified that my account was terminated, you just removed access to my account WITHOUT NOTIFICATION and in reality, that puts YOU IN VIOLATION of your own terms of service.

    So you feel that you can indisriminantly remove access to affiliate's accounts, claim you are following your terms, and then breach your own terms and do this WITHOUT NOTIFICATION?

    Breaching your own terms and then claiming to be following them is rogue behavoir, and is a good sign of things to come from your group.

    Rick
    Universal4

    For MANY years I have been stating how bad quotas are (for ALL affiliates), and back in 2005 started warning that quotas would be something that ALL affiliates would have to fight at a later time, and there have been an increasing number of cases where this has rung true the last few years.
    Last edited by universal4; 25 September 2013 at 10:57 am. Reason: fix spelling

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  13. #30
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    So you feel that you can indisriminantly remove access to affiliate's accounts, claim you are following your terms, and then breach your own terms and do this WITHOUT NOTIFICATION?
    "[...] we may terminate this Agreement immediately, without notice [...]"

    Without notice you don't need to discuss.
    Just closing the account and laughing.
    Very seriously!
    60 days.
    Why not 30 or 10 days?
    "Hiding" this rule in a termination term is not a gallant move.
    Chipsplit knows, many webmasters are not reading the termination rules because they are written in the same way most times.

    And if it is true, that Chipsplit is offering no CPA, only revenue share, then this rule is like a slap in the face.

    Beware
    Chipslit has some affiliate unfriendly clauses in their Terms and Conditions:

    6.3 Termination By Us. We may terminate this Agreement, with or without cause, upon thirty (30) days written notice to you. Further, we may terminate this Agreement immediately, without notice, in the following events:

    c. The total number of new Players introduced by you in a sixty (60) day period is less than 1.
    Source: gapdir.com/chipsplit-review/

    Chipsplit predatory - closed account
    I just got my affiliate account closed few days ago at Chipsplit without any notice. I send them mail and question what was the reason for that action. This is the answer [...]
    Read more: http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/for...html#post43727

    Leopold

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  15. #31
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    ChipSplit
    Atil Singh

    Dear Mr. Singh,

    you are the only person i know who is representing ChipSplit. I don't want to write to a ghost, so you are my point of contact for this open letter.

    I was informed today that the 60 days rule applies for webmaster who make their money on a revenue share basis. Most webmasters are ordinary people, and 60 days are so small, that this can interpreted only as a pitfall and for the purpose of self enrichment.

    Small and also medium webmaster can have some unlucky weeks with traffic, Google positions or website down times. Unlucky with the mathematical standard deviations, because if a webmaster will bring you at least 2 player every 60 days, it can happen, that he will bring 4 in one month and the next after 90 days.

    60 days is a very small time slot, a certain degree of cheekiness and a gross moral degradation. It does not matter if it's written in the terms. Where it's written? That is precisely where the whole problem lies.

    A place outside of the termination section was consciously avoided. You maybe say "It was not evil intent.", but i don't think, that, and this is my opinion, "stealing" money from ordinary people, who are on revenue share, will enhance the reputation of ChipSplit in the long term.

    Yes, i say "stealing money", because you are the one that best knows, why these outrageous rule was placed in the termination section and nowhere else in your terms.

    Every young person in Germany learns the wisdom: "Don't forget to read the fine print."
    Do you know, why?
    To avoid being milked or ripped off.

    Work and confidence still does not always pay. This is the bottom line after a closer look at ChipSplit.

    I wish you continued good business with fresh money, "stolen" revenue share from honest webmaster.

    Germany, September 28th 2013
    Leopold Friesen

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  17. #32
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    A few affiliates over at Poker Affiliate Listings just received email notices of their accounts being closed as well. He called to question the "lifetime earnings" promise in the FAQ.

    I don't know what these morons are thinking.

  18. #33
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    An affiliate that sends traffic to a poker room, casino or sportsbook is active and obviously trying to make a few bucks on the traffic. (and thus doing their job)

    A poker room, casino or sportsbook that fails to convert that traffic is failing to do THEIR job, and then turns around and cuts the affiliate off WITHOUT WARNING and WITHOUT NOTICE has breached their own terms of service and is rogue behavoir.

    Small affiliates do NOT cost a program money, BUT A LACK OF AFFILIATES do ! They are nothing but entries in a database, the newsletters and promotional material that goes out to them is already going to the affiliate that have converted better any given month, week day or year.

    No additional time or effort is put into these affiliates so no LOGICAL justification can be given for this type of behavoir, except that by doing so you hope to continue to generate traffic, branding and possibly players from affiliates that you have cut off, and is likely the entire reason you take these steps and do not notify the affiliates like is in your terms.

    Rick
    Universal4

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  20. #34
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    A poker room, casino or sportsbook that fails to convert that traffic is failing to do THEIR job, and then turns around and cuts the affiliate off WITHOUT WARNING and WITHOUT NOTICE has breached their own terms of service and is rogue behavoir.

    Small affiliates do NOT cost a program money, BUT A LACK OF AFFILIATES do ! They are nothing but entries in a database, the newsletters and promotional material that goes out to them is already going to the affiliate that have converted better any given month, week day or year.

    No addition time or effort is put into these affiliates so no LOGICAL justification can be given for this type of behavoir, except that by doing sop you hope to continue to generate traffic, branding and possibly players from affiliates that you have cut off, and is likely the entire reason you take these steps and do not notifiy the affiliates like is in your terms.

    Rick
    Universal4
    I'm going to be honest and say that I do not understand this latest move of theirs. TwoplusTwo isn't reporting any deposit issues that are statistically outside of the norm in their unofficial support forum. Their cashout times also seem to be much faster than one would think.

    With Carbon not having reported difficulty in taking deposits (which has happened more than once to them and other US facing poker rooms), this begs the question of where is the disconnect on conversions that many affiliates are reporting?

    Moreover, I cannot help but wonder why they've shut off "non-productive" affiliates who are sending traffic? It used to be that the Chipsplit affiliate managers would reach out to their "partners" and try to drum up activity - even going as far as sending an email asking what they can do to increase traffic / conversions. They'd also offer suggestions, etc.

    I want to make this clear - the actions of the Chipsplit of today CLEARLY IS NOT the Chipsplit that I just described.

    Closing down affiliate accounts like you just did, regardless of how small is just plain dumb. I don't care what your terms read, I don't care whether you sent an email or not - it is just plain dumb.

    In one of the forum threads I read - someone cited something along the lines of knowing they should have worried when Atil started going silent. Atil used to participate on PAL all the time similar to how many affiliate managers participate in this community.

    His silence, however, began when Carbon Poker changed hands. If I were to guess - I'd say that he was unable to answer some tougher questions regarding the new ownership. I'd also guess that he was not willing to lie, so he was faced with discussing how the new ownership (Jazette) were scum bags or he had to put a positive spin on it somehow. To me, that explains his silence. There's some decent information on the owners and history of Carbon Poker / Chipsplit on this page that touches upon the wrong doings of their current ownership.

    I think that since the ownership change, the program has survived based on credibility points that Atil has accumulated over the years. I'd further suspect that those points are running low after this latest round of closings.

    I know that its not wise to speculate on things that haven't happened yet, but I'd be willing to bet that those who have had their affiliate accounts closed in recent history will receive a Chipsplit Newsletter in the near future as if nothing ever happened.

  21. #35
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Atil made a post last night at PAL. His post reads as follows :


    Rest assure you that no players will be untracked and affiliates will continue earning lifetime revenue on their players.

    Like I said earlier, if any affiliate feel this email has reach them in error and or if they would like to continue to work with our program, please contact us at support@chipsplit.com

    Thanks.
    They're having database issues at the moment, can't respond over there but regardless - is this to mean that affiliates will continue to be paid despite their account being shut down? If so, then why shut them down in the first place?

    Acting on this term to close affiliate accounts who do not produce new players is clearly yet another poster child on why we as affiliates should in fact pay attention to the unfriendly terms and conditions that affiliate managers say "yea, they're there but in the history of the program, we've never acted on them and do not plan to do so in the future".

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  23. #36
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    Chipsplit are crooks. A few months ago I opened an aff account. Then signed with my link (on a brand new laptop) - showed as sign-up on the aff stats, but not a single penny was tracked. Nuff said.

    Now they have closed my aff account for not bringing players...as if...

  24. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogpaper View Post
    Chipsplit are crooks. A few months ago I opened an aff account. Then signed with my link (on a brand new laptop) - showed as sign-up on the aff stats, but not a single penny was tracked. Nuff said.
    Signing up under your own link is a violation of the terms


    I just wanted to say that I have been working with Atil for a few years noow. We Skype multiple times most weeks about all sorts of material related to Carbon, the industry in general, etc. While we do disagree on some policies and procedures, I do believe that overall he is fair and responsive to our business needs and treats our clients well. I've even had the pleasure of meeting him in person, nice guy, even paid the tab

  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PROFRBcom View Post
    I just wanted to say that I have been working with Atil for a few years noow. We Skype multiple times most weeks about all sorts of material related to Carbon, the industry in general, etc. While we do disagree on some policies and procedures, I do believe that overall he is fair and responsive to our business needs and treats our clients well. I've even had the pleasure of meeting him in person, nice guy, even paid the tab
    Atil is definitely top notch and one of the best in the industry - he also picked up the tab on a few affiliate meetups in Vegas, lol! I wish he was still more active on the boards over at PAL or even address any ChipSplit issues here at GPWA as well, but from my understanding he's moved up quite a bit on the corporate ladder the last few years.

    The only thing I hate about Carbon right now is the fees. The deposit and withdrawal fees the medium-sized to super affiliates get hit with are absolutely absurd. It's usually a guarantee I'm hit with several thousand alone before my commissions are really calculated, lol. Other than that the brand and conversions are sexy and I won't stop pushing them until they show me they're an unreliable option for my traffic....

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  27. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceHigh Pino View Post
    The only thing I hate about Carbon right now is the fees. The deposit and withdrawal fees the medium-sized to super affiliates get hit with are absolutely absurd. It's usually a guarantee I'm hit with several thousand alone before my commissions are really calculated, lol. Other than that the brand and conversions are sexy and I won't stop pushing them until they show me they're an unreliable option for my traffic....
    Yes, those fees suck. However, US friendly sites do pay considerably more for processing than ROW and Euro sites. Most of the programs pass along the fees somehow (chipsplit, juicy, all the winning brands, all the chico brands). Others like Bovada slam you hidden algo fees on winning players. Very few rooms actually absorb those costs themselves. And while I would rather that Carbon do the same, the one thing I can say in their defense is that they offer commissions higher than virtually everyone else by default, without volume requirements. So the banner number they advertise is slyly reduced... standard in this industry these days really

  28. #40
    Roulette Zeitung is offline Public Member
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    The circle closes - You needed not be a prophet to predict it.

    ===> https://www.gpwa.org/forum/chipsplit...tml#post787742

    Some signs don't lie.



    Leopold

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